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New Ontario Government 2018

mariomike

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pbi said:
That seems like a bit of a broadside into the police.

Wasn't meant to be. My uncle served on the Metro Force for many years.

Just that I believe times have changed in Toronto policing from what I remember. As they have in so many other things.

As a member of an allied service, my memories of Metro Police are from the 1972-2009 era. As for what has been going on for the last nine+ years, all I know about that is what I see on CP24 and read in the papers.

But, from my memories of the early 1970's, it was almost as though Metro's unofficial credo was, "Give no slack and take no shit from anyone. Confront and command. Control the streets at all times. Always be aggressive. Stop crimes before they happen. Seek them out. Shake them down. Make that arrest. And never, never admit the department has done anything wrong."
https://www.amazon.com/Protect-Serve-Century-Domanick-1994-11-03/dp/B01F9FVDY2


This is from 1996 and concerns the decline in LAPD arrests. It may, or may not, have some relevance for Metro,

Riordan Orders Report on Plunge in LAPD Arrests
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-03-15/local/me-47313_1_lapd-arrests
"It was vexing and surprising to learn that the LAPD is now making 100,000 fewer arrests, issuing over 200,000 fewer citations and conducting over 20,000 fewer field interviews per year."

"Field interviews" is what "carding" is known as in Toronto,

QUOTE

June 28, 2018

Toronto area police chief faults new Ontario restrictions on carding for rise in violent crime
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-toronto-area-police-chief-faults-new-ontario-restrictions-on-carding/
"Carding is the controversial police practice of collecting information about people they stop to question. Although it has been found to disproportionately target people of colour, some police officers argue they have lost a necessary investigative tool.

END QUOTE

Again, speaking of LAPD, this may, or may not, have some relevance to productivity in Metro,

"In the 1960s, our 3,400 policemen (our Civil Service rank) arrested 100,000 more criminals than do today's 10,000."

LT. MAX  K. HURLBUT LAPD
Retired from the “Golden Era” of the LAPD.
2010

Sorry for not providing Metro's productivity statistics for comparison, but I know they are out there. If anyone is interested.






 

Jarnhamar

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[quote author=mariomike]
Toronto area police chief faults new Ontario restrictions on carding for rise in violent crime
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-toronto-area-police-chief-faults-new-ontario-restrictions-on-carding/
"Carding is the controversial police practice of collecting information about people they stop to question. Although it has been found to disproportionately target people of colour, some police officers argue they have lost a necessary investigative tool.

[/quote]

Loaded question but what if this is because in a given area people of colour are the primary guilty parties?

If it's noticed 24 out of 25 people committing crimes have an identifiable thing going on should police not single them out more? Or better to turn a blind eye to that?



London UK used to have a stop and search thing going on where police could stop and search someone 'at random' It was found too that POCs were singled out more and people screamed racism and the practice stopped. With the recent apparent epidemic of stabbings and murders I read the mayor is talking about bringing stop and search back.



 

mariomike

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Jarnhamar said:
Loaded question but what if this is because in a given area people of colour are the primary guilty parties?

Race has always been a hot potato in Metro. As it is in other municipalities, I suppose.

QUOTE

Aug. 17, 2015

Twenty-six years ago, a staff inspector by the name of Julian Fantino — future Toronto police chief — sat in a small committee room and delivered a slew of explosive race-based crime statistics focused on the Jane-Finch neighbourhood.

Fantino, then head of 31 Division, told North York’s committee on community, race and ethnic relations that, while blacks made up 6 per cent of the Jane-Finch population, they accounted for 82 per cent of robberies and muggings, 55 per cent of purse-snatchings and 51 per cent of drug offences in the previous year.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/08/17/a-thorny-history-of-race-based-statistics.html
Police in Ontario were forbidden to compile race-based crime statistics.
Police chief Jack Marks insisted the force did not keep race stats.

END QUOTE
 

pbi

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mariomike said:
Race has always been a hot potato in Metro. As it is in other municipalities, I suppose.

QUOTE

Aug. 17, 2015

...Fantino, then head of 31 Division, told North York’s committee on community, race and ethnic relations that, while blacks made up 6 per cent of the Jane-Finch population, they accounted for 82 per cent of robberies and muggings, 55 per cent of purse-snatchings and 51 per cent of drug offences in the previous year...

OK, it was 31 Div not 13 Div. :D :D

But this is what I mean: there is a community-centric problem. How can anybody in their right mind say there isn't? This is not new, at all, just worse. The question that needs to be answered, IMHO, is why that community is so over represented in violent criminal activity, especially gun homicides?

Is it racist police?  A biased court system? A bad education system? Lack of employment opportunities? Cultural baggage? Cultural glorification of violence-based masculinity? Whatever it is, it clearly does not apply across all non-white, non-European communities in the GTA. If it did, the GTA would be a blood-soaked inferno.

Putting more cops at the coal face, and bringing back carding (or an equivalent tool) will probably provide some relief. But neither will really get at "why?", and that IMHO is what is needed.
 

Xylric

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I recall a study done in Baltimore some years back that found a remarkable connection between an area's crime rate and the relative tree coverage of that area.

The only crime that increased with greater amounts of tree coverage was burglary, which just makes sense.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169204612000977

How many trees are in the Jane-Finch area, again?
 

Colin Parkinson

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Sadly the fear of race issue, throws all the law abiding people of that race under the bus, because they are at the mercy of the gangs, because the police are restrained from doing anything. Plus the politicians won't take any direct action for the same reason.
 

mariomike

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pbi said:
OK, it was 31 Div not 13 Div. :D :D

All I know about the Jane-Finch corridor now is what I see on CP24, and read on here.  :)

But, I agree, it has been a troubled community for many years.

eg: They were dropping garbage cans at us off the high-rise balconies at the Jane and Falstaff in the Metropolitan Toronto Housing Authority ( MTHA ) projects.

Not being police, our options were limited.

A very good friend of mine, Rick Boustead RIP, took it upon himself to meet with some residents of the community about what we could do to perhaps ease tensions a little bit.

Rick\s solution was to start a Children’s Breakfast Club in that project.
http://breakfastclubs.ca/our-club/rick-boustead-breakfast-club/

This was back in 1984. Now, there's over 20 Children's Breakfast Clubs in Metro Housing projects. But, Rick's was the first.

Not being police, I know a Children's Breakfast Club does not make a dramatic difference. But, 35 years later it's still there.
Maybe it did some good over those years.

Xylric said:
I recall a study done in Baltimore some years back that found a remarkable connection between an area's crime rate and the relative tree coverage of that area.

Maybe Baltimore is on to something. There are lots of big old oak trees and sakura in our neighbourhood. It's very hilly. We have the river on the west, the lake on the south, and Grenadier Pond, and a smaller catfish pond, and a 400 acre park ( one third of the park remains in a natural state ) on the east.

If it were not for Bloor West Village and the subway on the north, you feel in complete isolation to the rest of the city. 

Xylric said:
How many trees are in the Jane-Finch area, again?

That's another thing Rick did. He helped those Jane-Finch kids plant gardens in their community, and around the west-end. I remember seeing them plant flower gardens. Not sure about trees.




 

Jarnhamar

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Refugees are being kicked out of dormitories since school's starting and put up in hotels for an indefinite period of time since there's no housing available and no real plan.  Got some nice hotels downtown, good stuff.
 

Altair

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Thank god for Doug Ford.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/cannabis/2018/07/26/doug-ford-set-to-privatize-legal-cannabis-sales-reports-say.html

According to the reports, the Tory government will allow legal cannabis to be sold in private stores.

Vice News states that sources close to Premier Doug Ford’s government are planning to overturn the previous Liberal government’s decision for a monopoly on cannabis sales via the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.

“We’ll have more to say in the near future,” said a source in Premier Doug Ford’s office.

Provincial Finance Minister Vic Fedeli and Attorney-General Caroline Mulroney are expected to announce the new plans next week, according to a report in the Globe and Mail.

The report notes the new plan will mirror the Alberta model, which allows for privately owned stores to sell marijuana if they carry a license from the liquor commision.

If you're going go sell pot, do it right,  and reap the windfall
 

Remius

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Interesting and somewhat unexpected move by the Premier.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tory-ford-city-council-statements-1.4763890

I don't know too much about the city council dynamic in TO to have an informed opinion on whether this is a good move or not.

Less government is good.  I'm not so sure about less representation though. 
 

mariomike

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Remius said:
I don't know too much about the city council dynamic in TO to have an informed opinion on whether this is a good move or not.

I vote in Ward 13. So, I'll offer my ( uninformed ) opinion, for what it is worth to the discussion.

I'm not surprised. But, as a courtesy, it would have been nice for Doug to have informed Toronto voters of his plan before asking us to vote for him.

One more reason I wish the city could go its own way ( amicably ) from the Province of Ontario.

Our city election is on Oct. 22, 2018.

So, imagine if Prime Minister Trudeau announced three months before the upcoming federal election that he decided to cut the House of Commons in half.

Although the population of Toronto has grown a lot since 1998, we had more than 100 politicians back then.

That number fell to 57. Now it is 44. They had just been increased to 47 wards.

Doug is bring it down to 25.

That's one-quarter what we had in 1998, with the same geographic boundary, and smaller population.

The cut will save $110,000 per councillor per year out of an $11 billion-dollar annual budget.

I don't expect Ford Nation to have a lot of love for the city after taking away Rob's mayoral powers, or Doug's defeat by John Tory in the mayoral election.

Speaking of which, Mel Lastman's son changed his mind about running for mayor. But, with just minutes left to register, the city's former chief planner Jennifer Keesmaat is running for mayor.

That makes it a whole new ball game!  :)

 

Rifleman62

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So, imagine if Prime Minister Trudeau announced three months before the upcoming federal election that he decided to cut the House of Commons in half.

If he did that, I would support it. Plus the Senate.
 

Remius

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Rifleman62 said:
If he did that, I would support it. Plus the Senate.

it would be more akin to the PM telling Alberta to cut its MLAs by half.


 

mariomike

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Rifleman62 said:
If he did that, I would support it. Plus the Senate.

Maybe I would too. Maybe a lot of people would.

But, would there not be a referendum?

Remius said:
it would be more akin to the PM telling Alberta to cut its MLAs by half.

That's a better example than mine was.

I picked Welland randomly and found that the city has 6 councillors for a city of just over 52,000 people, or one councillor per 8,667 people. Woodstock has 6 for over 38,000 or one per 6,333 people. With 25 councillors in Toronto, each councillor would represent 116,000 residents.
 

kratz

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Local government is not recognized under our constitution, so comparing the cuts in Toronto with a Provincial or Federal cut is an apple to oranges comparison.
Premier Ford can  make the cuts, as afforded provincial jurisdiction.

Suggestions to cut Provincial, Federal or Senate seats, or add a new province would all take a change to the constitution.
With the current crop of politicians, does anyone trust another Meech Lake referendum to hold the country together?    :Tin-Foil-Hat:
 

PuckChaser

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mariomike said:
I picked Welland randomly and found that the city has 6 councillors for a city of just over 52,000 people, or one councillor per 8,667 people. Woodstock has 6 for over 38,000 or one per 6,333 people. With 25 councillors in Toronto, each councillor would represent 116,000 residents.

Geography plays into the equation as well. Renfrew Country has 1 MP and 1 MPP to represent 102,000 people, but has only 9 people per Sq KM. With the amount of towns covered in the riding, it would be completely impractical to just declare the whole riding as 1 city with only 1 councillor allowed. Meanwhile, Toronto has 4,400 people per Sq KM meaning that each councillor (within the 25 limit) only has a 26 Sq KM ward. With the current system, Toronto has a councillor for roughly every 12.5 Sq KM. That's a whole lot of overhead for very little tangible gain.
 

dapaterson

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PuckChaser said:
Geography plays into the equation as well. Renfrew Country has 1 MP and 1 MPP to represent 102,000 people, but has only 9 people per Sq KM. With the amount of towns covered in the riding, it would be completely impractical to just declare the whole riding as 1 city with only 1 councillor allowed. Meanwhile, Toronto has 4,400 people per Sq KM meaning that each councillor (within the 25 limit) only has a 26 Sq KM ward. With the current system, Toronto has a councillor for roughly every 12.5 Sq KM. That's a whole lot of overhead for very little tangible gain.

So we can build an infantry section with one Sgt and 54 Cpl/Ptes?  Or is there some size at which communication falls apart, and smaller organizational structures are needed?
 

PuckChaser

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dapaterson said:
So we can build an infantry section with one Sgt and 54 Cpl/Ptes?  Or is there some size at which communication falls apart, and smaller organizational structures are needed?

Apples and Oranges. I said both geographical and population density need to be covered.
 

FJAG

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Remius said:
Interesting and somewhat unexpected move by the Premier.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tory-ford-city-council-statements-1.4763890

I don't know too much about the city council dynamic in TO to have an informed opinion on whether this is a good move or not.

Less government is good.  I'm not so sure about less representation though.

I used to belong to a governing board that had over forty members and we restructured it down to just over twenty. The number of constituents represented wasn't ever the issue. The issue was that with over forty members we were dysfunctional getting wrapped around the axle for lengthy periods of time debating ridiculously small current issues rather than concentrating on the big picture, future looking things. IMHO, forty seven is too unwieldy; smaller board with a good administrative staff that can focus discussions is greatly preferable. That said, the way this was sprung on the city as a whole is less than optimal.

:cheers:
 

mariomike

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kratz said:
Premier Ford can  make the cuts, as afforded provincial jurisdiction .

Funny how days like today remind you of things.

We got our first lesson in provincial jurisdiction when I was 12.

Against the wishes of many local citizens, our village, an official Village, was amalgamated into the City of Toronto, by order of the Province of Ontario.

 
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