New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[STONEY]

I said BOATS not ships. There are several NUC  boats that advertise a top speed of 25 kts except for short bursts and several others that don't advertise because of op security. Cheers.

 

[Good2Golf]

I said BOATS not ships. There are several NUC  boats that advertise a top speed of 25 kts except for short bursts and several others that don't advertise because of op security. Cheers.

Ack.  I thought in the context, you were referring to surface vessels, not subs.

cheers
G2G

 

[MarkOttawa]

Irving and BAE in bed together--implications for CSC?

Irving joins UK firm on new bid worth $5.2 billion

Irving Shipbuilding has partnered with UK-based defence company BAE Systems to bid on a the Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships and Joint Support Ship In-Service Support contract, worth up to $5.2 billion.

BAE announced last week in a press release that the two companies had joined forces under the name Canadian Naval Support Ltd.

Irving is also responsible building the fleet of six Harry DeWolf-class AOPS, while Seaspan’s Vancouver shipyards are constructing the two Queenston-class auxiliary vessels.

“CNS combines the capabilities of Canada’s long-term trusted partner for the National Shipbuilding Strategy with the expertise of one of the global leaders in warship repair and maintenance as used and trusted by some of Canada’s closest allies,” the statement reads.

The Department of Public Services and Procurement launched the open competition for in-service support, including refit, repair, maintenance and training, for both the Harry DeWolf-class and Queenston-class vessels in July.

At the time, the department said combining the contracts for the AOPS and JSS In-Service Support under a single contractor instead of holding separate competitions for each class of ship will benefit industry by increasing workforce stability and reducing costs through economies of scale.

The contract will include an initial service period of eight years, with options to extend services up to 35 years under an open and competitive process. According to tender documents, the initial work period is valued at $600 million-$800 million, while the total potential contract value that would include the “exercise of all possible options” is worth $5.2 billion.

The tender closed Nov. 8…
http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1415394-irving-joins-uk-firm-on-new-bid-worth-5.2-billion

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

From BAE Systems Nov. 4:

...
BAE Systems has confirmed that the first steel will be cut on the Royal Navy’s Type 26 Global Combat Ships in Glasgow in summer 2017, subject to final contract negotiations with the UK Ministry of Defence...http://www.baesystems.com/en/article/manufacturing-of-the-type-26-global-combat-ships-to-start-in-summer-2017

More from Irving/BAE article above:

...
BAE Systems is the the designer of the UK navy’s yet-to-be constructed fleet of frigates — the Type 26 Global Command Ship. BAE also happens to be one of 12 pre-qualified firms that have been approved to bid on a joint design and combat systems integrator for the Canadian Surface Combatant program. The firm is to expected to submit the Type 26 as an off-the-shelf design for Canada’s new fleet of warships, which will be constructed by Irving Shipbuilding, also the prime contractor.

Last summer, the government drew accusations of stacking the deck in favour of BAE Systems from industry sources after widening the criteria for the new frigate to allow designers to submit bids for ships that have already been built by other countries, as well as those on which detailed design work has commenced, making room for the Type 26.

During a media briefing on the the launch of the CSC request for proposal in late October, assistant deputy minister of materiel and retired rear admiral Pat Finn defended the government’s decision to allow for ship designs that have yet to be constructed in the competition, saying that with the number of design changes that will be needed to Canadianize the ship, every bidder could be seen as offering “paper ships.”

Former navy commander and marine security analyst Ken Hansen said the new partnership between Irving and BAE is likely only partially about the support contract. If the Type 26 is being looked on favourably by insiders, as has been alleged, Hansen said the collaboration between them is a smart business move...
http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1415394-irving-joins-uk-firm-on-new-bid-worth-5.2-billion

Hmm.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Just consider this August post:

Irving Halifax Has Lead Evaluating RCN Canadian Surface Combatant Design/Weapons Systems Bids
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/08/22/mark-collins-irving-halifax-has-lead-evaluating-rcn-canadian-surface-combatant-designweapons-systems-bids/

Double hmm.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kirkhill]

The "Lead" navies have given the world the following state of the art ships:

3 Zumwalts (2 in the water, one building) - down from a planned 32
6 Type 45s - down from a planned 12

3 Seawolfs - down from a planned 29 (although the Virginia's are taking up the slack)
7 Astutes - constrained.

And need we mention the 90 musd, 1000 tonne, disposable LCS?

Not worth talking about carriers and boomers because they will never be in the Canadian fleet.

I can't think of any more frightening combination than Irving, Bath Iron Works and BAE.

 

[AlexanderM]

I've noticed there is talk of increased defense spending, all part of keeping the American government happy, all part of establishing a whole new relationship with President Trump, renegotiating NFTA, etc. Could be interesting to see what happens here, as I expect the Americans will say increase defense spending, re Canada's committment to NATO or else, could even spill into the whole F-35 issue. Apparently Canada reached out to the Trump people right away about a willingness to renegotiate NFTA, among other things, and it looks like defense spending will be on the table. I am curious to see what happens, as i think the Trump people are going to be insistant. This may provide a political solution to a political problem. Saw this in an interview on the weekend.

 

[MarkOttawa]

CP story by Lee Berthiaume (further links at original):

Conflict of interest concern overshadows Canada’s effort to replace warship fleet

The multibillion-dollar effort to replace the navy’s warship fleet is being buffeted by concerns about a potential conflict of interest involving Irving Shipbuilding, the Halifax company that is leading the project.

Irving Shipbuilding and British shipbuilder BAE Systems recently announced they have paired together to bid on a $5-billion maintenance and support contract for the navy’s new Arctic patrol vessels and resupply ships.

READ MORE: Federal government in race against time as warship project takes next step

But BAE is also expected to enter its Type 26 frigate into a competition being run by Irving, in conjunction with the Defence Department, to select the warship design to replace the navy’s 12 frigates and three destroyers.

Irving will ultimately build the vessels.

Irving and the federal government say measures have been taken to ensure full transparency and fairness around the warship project, which previous estimates have pegged at as much as $40 billion...
http://globalnews.ca/news/3069847/conflict-of-interest-concern-overshadows-canadas-effort-to-replace-warship-fleet/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Davie releases on video on Project Resolve https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0JV8ajbLjA

 

[Kirkhill]

Got to give full marks to Davie's marketing department......

Do Seaspan or Irving have one?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Got to give full marks to Davie's marketing department......

Do Seaspan or Irving have one?

Seaspan has done similar and has an ongoing photo gallery. I found that Davie fell down on this as they stopped posting progress and I wondered how things were going. I am pleased to see the progress.

 

[MilEME09]

I have to say I am impressed, 10% ahead of schedule, 72% complete in October, main deck to be installed by end of November before winter really sets in. At this rate she will be having HMCS Resolve painted on her in no time, and launched in the spring. I am excited for you Navy guys who will get first crack at her. Davie I think will be in a very good position for future contracts if the Resolve preforms well, I do hope we buy her out right.

 

[jmt18325]

Crazy that we might get 3 federal large vessels next year.  At least we're finally getting somewhere.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Latest--note Davie proposals:

Seaspan at Work: RCN JSSs Still Sliding Right (CCG icebreaker not for now)
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/12/12/mark-collins-seaspan-at-work-rcn-jsss-still-sliding-right-ccg-icebreaker-not-for-now/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[suffolkowner]

sure looks like there's room for Davie to sneak a few ships in

 

[Kirkhill]

Interesting situation -

Seaspan and Irving are building to RCN - Procurement Canada specs in Canadian yards.

Davie is leasing ships built to their specs from vessels built in foreign yards.

Sounds like apples to apples to me.

 

[Lumber]

Interesting situation -

Seaspan and Irving are building to RCN - Procurement Canada specs in Canadian yards.

Davie is leasing ships built to their specs from vessels built in foreign yards.

Sounds like apples to apples to me.

#sarcasm?

But for realzies, part of the procurement problem, IMO, is having to hash out in full details exactly what our requirements should be. I know that we should be estimating the situation, not the other way around, but I could name a dozen warships from around the world that "we could work with". Just pick one, sign the contract, and we'll work out the rest later.

It's not the best system, but we could make it work...

 

[Kirkhill]

Sarcasm - but of the lightest style.

I am not opposed to working with what is available instead of building to suit.

Which is easier to change?  Doctrine or design?

 

[MarkOttawa]

Quelle surprise!  Open and transparent, anyone?

Parliament’s budget watchdog, National Defence battling over warship data

National Defence and Parliament's budget watchdog have been quietly battling over access to key information about the government's multi-billion-dollar plan to buy the navy new warships.

The department says it remains committed to openness and transparency, but the information requested by parliamentary budget officer Jean-Denis Frechette is "very sensitive" and outside his mandate.

Frechette, however, alleges there is a culture of secrecy within National Defence, and that the department remains among the worst when it comes to transparency.

"National Defence is a problematic case," Frechette told the Senate defence committee on Monday.

"There is a certain culture whereby this information suddenly becomes confidential or cabinet confidence."

The dispute is reminiscent of similar disagreements between National Defence and Frechette's predecessor, Kevin Page, particularly when it came to the F-35 stealth fighter.

This time, the disagreement started in September when Frechette wrote two letters to National Defence's top bureaucrat, John Forster, asking for documents explaining the type of equipment and capabilities the navy requires in its new warships.

The purpose was to come up with a cost estimate for the project, which has been billed as the single largest military procurement in Canadian history and forms the backbone of the federal government's national shipbuilding strategy...
http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/12/13/parliaments-budget-watchdog-national-defence-battling-over-warship-data-2/#.WFAzNFxqDIV

Related:

Irving Working with BAE Systems: Implications for RCN Canadian Surface Combatant?
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/11/15/mark-collins-irving-working-with-bae-systems-implications-for-rcn-canadian-surface-combatant/

RCN Canadian SurfaRCN Canadian Surface Combatant, Irving, Intellectual Property…and Espionage (plus fighters and Trump)ce Combatant, Irving, Intellectual Property…and Espionage (plus fighters and Trump)
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/12/05/mark-collins-rcn-canadian-surface-combatant-irving-intellectual-property-and-espionage-plus-fighters-and-trump/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[PuckChaser]

We over classify everything. I wouldn't be surprised if someone just slapped a SECRET sticker on the document, when the capabilities/systems could be described in broad strokes in an UNCLASS format.