New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[calculus]

What I took away is this new ship will be delivered by 2030, so that's a definite positive. Why the different design I'd also like to know. To me, this looks bigger than Arpatuuq, but I can't find much in the way of details. Perhaps this design is the basis for the ICE pact designs, having some features that the Fin and Americans desired that Arpatuuq did not?

Hard to say. I think/guess we will find out more today. I rather hope that Davie builds the other Polar on top of this Polar Max e but maybe their is some sort of pissing match between Seaspan and Davie holding it up?

edit update so one offs

Construction of new polar icebreakers for the Canadian Coast Guard - Canada.ca

The National Shipbuilding Strategy (NSS) is a long-term, multi-billion-dollar program aimed at renewing the fleets of the Canadian Coast Guard and the Royal Canadian Navy to ensure that Canada’s maritime agencies have the modern ships they need to fulfill their missions, while revitalizing...

www.canada.ca

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Contracts issued almost simultaneously. Davie, unlike Seaspan, is still upgrading its yard under the NSS, yet it is expecting to deliver its Polar 2 icebreaker two years ahead of Seaspan. Is the Helsinki yard that much of an advantage?

 

[suffolkowner]

Contracts issued almost simultaneously. Davie, unlike Seaspan, is still upgrading its yard under the NSS, yet it is expecting to deliver its Polar 2 icebreaker two years ahead of Seaspan. Is the Helsinki yard that much of an advantage?

going to start the build there with Davie employees as I understand it. It should be an advantage in that its a more active shipyard responsible for most of the icebreaker builds out there.

A funny carve out from the NSS though

edit

"In 2023, thanks to $110 million in assistance from the Government of Quebec, Davie purchased the Helsinki Shipyard Oy, a shipyard located in the Finnish capital that has built 60% of the world's icebreaker fleet alone."

 

[Rainbow1910]

Helsinki is going to do 30% of the work, while Davie’s yard in Quebec will take on the remaining 70%. Having an experienced icebreaking yard do over a quarter of the work for you will definitely give you and advantage over Seaspan doing everything from scratch.

Davie claims they can deliver this design in 36 months, we shall see if their marketing can be taken seriously or not. I am not very amused with throwing out the benefits of a shared platform for the logistical mess of two different designs with very comparable capability.

Davie will likely spin this like they spun through foreign work from Asterix, meaning they’ll pass it off as wholly Canadian lol.

 

[calculus]

Helsinki is going to do 30% of the work, while Davie’s yard in Quebec will take on the remaining 70%. Having an experienced icebreaking yard do over a quarter of the work for you will definitely give you and advantage over Seaspan doing everything from scratch.

Davie claims they can deliver this design in 36 months, we shall see if their marketing can be taken seriously or not. I am not very amused with throwing out the benefits of a shared platform for the logistical mess of two different designs with very comparable capability.

Davie will likely spin this like they spun through foreign work from Asterix, meaning they’ll pass it off as wholly Canadian lol.

They can at least partially address the logistical implications of different designs by using some of the same systems (engines, azipod thrusters, bow thrusters, water purification, etc, etc...). Let's hope someone at PSPC is asking these kinds of questions.

 

[suffolkowner]

Hopefully more will come out so we can make a direct comparison between the two designs

 

[suffolkowner]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898402866060017880

More info

 

[Kirkhill]

Contracts issued almost simultaneously. Davie, unlike Seaspan, is still upgrading its yard under the NSS, yet it is expecting to deliver its Polar 2 icebreaker two years ahead of Seaspan. Is the Helsinki yard that much of an advantage?

Yes.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Yes.

Clear. Succinct. To the point.

 

[Kirkhill]

Clear. Succinct. To the point.

Surprised?

 

[GR66]

Surprised?

 

[Kirkhill]

Frankly, I'm shocked to be taken at my word. Progress?

 

[Kirkhill]

So as not to disappoint my fans....

List of ships built at Hietalahti shipyard (401 onwards) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ice breakers
RoRo and RoPax Ferries
Ice breaking tankers (gas and oil)
Ice breaking ore carriers
Supply vessels

If only there were a country with resources that could exploit those capabilities.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Damn! I can't think of a single one.

 

[GR66]

Well if Davie/Helsinki can pull it off we should give them another.

 

[suffolkowner]

Well if Davie/Helsinki can pull it off we should give them another.

How many does the CCG need? The RCN?
Davie and Seaspan could each build another

 

[Rainbow1910]

What I took away is this new ship will be delivered by 2030, so that's a definite positive. Why the different design I'd also like to know. To me, this looks bigger than Arpatuuq, but I can't find much in the way of details. Perhaps this design is the basis for the ICE pact designs, having some features that the Fin and Americans desired that Arpatuuq did not?

I would take Davie's claims on a 2030 delivery with a grain of salt, even given their help from Helsinki here. Davie commonly makes outlandish claims and is rarely called out on them, especially given their track record cannot be leaned upon at all here. Seaspan is supposed 2 years behind than Davie/Helsinki even though they've already started physical prototype module work, the design is largely finished and full rate production will begin in April.

Davie's Polar Max E is apparently based heavily off the existing Aker ARC-148 design for a Russian company Norilsk Nickel, but it's been/being modified for Canadian requirements to bring it up to PC-2. They had signed for this vessel to be built in Finland at Helsinki in 2022, but the Russian Invasion of Ukraine resulted in its cancelation. Aker has removed much of this information since as it reflects pretty poorly on their previous business ventures.

Is Davie/Helsinki going to be able to beat Seaspan to the punch with a design at unknown stages of completion, when they will be playing catchup from the very beginning? They are an experienced yard, but they are not doing the majority of the work. Davie is not worked up compared to Seaspan at all. I think it is valuable to take their claims with a grain of salt.

This is an image of the Russian variant circa 2022.

From Helsinki themselves:

Polar Max will be 22,800 tonnes vessel with a length of 138,5 meters. Additionally, it functions as a research vessel, capable of performing oil spill response operations and emergency towing year-round. Davie continues to promote similar projects internationally and aims to accelerate the development of Finland’s maritime industry ecosystem and the creation of Finnish maritime innovations.

From Davie:

Polar Max E is a highly flexible platform for commercial, scientific or more militarized deployments in the harshest polar environments. With dual-fuel optionality, it is also among the greenest icebreakers and can be configured as either Polar Class 3 or 2 — the latter would be the world’s most powerful conventionally powered icebreaker. The Polar Max E can also be purchased or leased — the latter option draws on Davie’s great success with its build, own, operate commercial model for the Combat Support Ship Asterix, which provides support to the ships of the Royal Canadian Navy in home waters and beyond.

According to Davies, the Polar Max E is far more than a concept, it is a mature design with a build timeline of 36 months. Once commissioned, it will help reshape the polar navigation and security landscapes. Indeed, it has the potential to become a common asset for Western allies or even as a NATO icebreaker — blending commercial, military and naval duties, thereby making it a versatile platform for the volatile times we live in.

“Icebreakers are notoriously difficult to build, and all recent Western projects have been beset by procurement, schedule, budget and post-delivery problems,” said Davies. “Our options would enable Western allies to get desperately needed icebreaking capacity into service on an interim or permanent basis many years earlier than currently scheduled. The Polar Max E could not be more timely and is a beacon of Western innovation and solidarity.”

Helsinki Shipyard was expected in May 2023 to begin construction on the most powerful conventional icebreaker ever built. But the export licence to a Russian customer was revoked in October 2022 due to prevailing geopolitical challenges. This icebreaker, the Polar Max E, is a mature vessel design and construction could begin in less than a year and would deliver a highly strategic asset to NATO, EU or private western customers.

• 140m 21,990-ton Polar Class 2 Icebreaker
• Duel medium helicopter operations and maintenance capability
• DP2 compliance
• Large moon-pool
• Scientific facilities (2 Main labs, Wet Lab, Electronics Lab, Meteorological Lab, Bi ChemLab, Spaces in Wet space ROV prep area and sample receival)

Current/previous images of the Canadian variant.

 

[suffolkowner]

I would take Davie's claims on a 2030 delivery with a grain of salt, even given their help from Helsinki here. Davie commonly makes outlandish claims and is rarely called out on them, especially given their track record cannot be leaned upon at all here. Seaspan is supposed 2 years behind than Davie/Helsinki even though they've already started physical prototype module work, the design is largely finished and full rate production will begin in April.

Davie's Polar Max E is apparently based heavily off the existing Aker ARC-148 design for a Russian company Norilsk Nickel, but it's been/being modified for Canadian requirements to bring it up to PC-2. They had signed for this vessel to be built in Finland at Helsinki in 2022, but the Russian Invasion of Ukraine resulted in its cancelation. Aker has removed much of this information since as it reflects pretty poorly on their previous business ventures.

Is Davie/Helsinki going to be able to beat Seaspan to the punch with a design at unknown stages of completion, when they will be playing catchup from the very beginning? They are an experienced yard, but they are not doing the majority of the work. Davie is not worked up compared to Seaspan at all. I think it is valuable to take their claims with a grain of salt.

This is an image of the Russian variant circa 2022.

From Helsinki themselves:



From Davie:



Current/previous images of the Canadian variant.

Why do they call it the 148 when its 138.5m long or is ours going to be extended?

 

[Kirkhill]

I wonder if Davie would get the hulls built in Helsinki and, as with the Asterix, fit the hotel work over here.

Of course that was built in Finland as well.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/leased-navy-ship-1.3909874

 

[JMCanada]

How many does the CCG need? The RCN?
Davie and Seaspan could each build another

For the sake of building efficiency, at this point Arpatuuk should be built at Seaspan, then maybe a second Polar Max at Davie (Levis/Helsinki).