Navy to replace official Heart of Oak march with ‘more inclusive’ music

[FJAG]

Bands are a frivolous use of resources and should be the first things cut in times of austerity.

Before everything became all "professional" bands had battlefield roles in regiments (essentially stretcher bearers) and in many regiments the bands were fifers and drummers who came from the rank and file and buglers who were signalers of sorts.

2 PPCLI used to have a pretty sharp volunteer drum line (and for all I know still does). That's all you really need to keep the beat - add in some volunteer fifes, pipes or bugles and you're good to go. A small (and I do mean small) professional band for the CAF - to provide a framework core and perform at high end official functions and public events, is sufficient. ResF units do fine with volunteer bands including civilians - that's fine with me too.

 

[mariomike]

Pretty hard to put a dollar value on the morale effect of a wartime military band.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Before everything became all "professional" bands had battlefield roles in regiments (essentially stretcher bearers) and in many regiments the bands were fifers and drummers who came from the rank and file and buglers who were signalers of sorts.

2 PPCLI used to have a pretty sharp volunteer drum line (and for all I know still does). That's all you really need to keep the beat - add in some volunteer fifes, pipes or bugles and you're good to go. A small (and I do mean small) professional band for the CAF - to provide a framework core and perform at high end official functions and public events, is sufficient. ResF units do fine with volunteer bands including civilians - that's fine with me too.

The MG Platoon used to be double hatted as Drums Platoon in my old mob.

Bandsmen were also trained and employed as first aid teams/ stretcher bearers and ammo resupply bods.

 

[JLB50]

Pretty hard to put a dollar value on the morale effect of a wartime military band.

My father-in-law served with the SD&G Highlanders during WW2. I think it was sometime just prior to D-Day that they were stationed in a camp a short distance outside Horsham, England. On Sundays the entire regiment would march into town for church services to the sounds of pipes and drums. He said the effects of the music on the morale of both the soldiers and townspeople were tremendous.

 

[bLUE fOX]

Heart of Oak isn’t actually disappearing though. It’s been incorporated into the RCN’s new general salute. Personally, I think this is the best result. It allows us to recognise our past while opening the possibility of creating a more distinct culturally relevant identity through the adoption of a new march.

 

[Blackadder1916]

The MG Platoon used to be double hatted as Drums Platoon in my old mob.

Bandsmen were also trained and employed as first aid teams/ stretcher bearers and ammo resupply bods.

The Royal Marines Band Service still describe medical and logistical support as a secondary role and even use a photo of a bandsman in a medical facility on their recruiting site.

Royal Marines Band Service | Musician Jobs in The Royal Navy

www.royalnavy.mod.uk

. . . as well as undertaking operational roles alongside the rest of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines. . . .

• Play an important role in the Royal Marines Band Service’s vital medical and logistical function, supporting the Royal Navy and 3 Commando Brigade all over the world.

While British military bandsmen may have some training and been employed more recently in the traditional role of "stretcher bearer", I don't think the same holds true for Canadian military musicians despite that secondary role having been brought up on numerous occasions as justification. The only experience I ever had with a CAF musician receiving medical training was way back when the earth was cooling. There was a Cpl musician on my TQ3, however he was a remuster to Med A. When the use of bandsmen as stretcher bearers was brought up, he said that while it had been mentioned as one of the "historical" functions of military bands during his musician training, they received no training other than the same first aid that all others did during basic. In the 50 years since then, the importance of emergency medical response has been reiterated but it doesn't appear that CAF musicians (or stewards, for that matter) have been included in the equation.

 

[mariomike]

I didn't join to clean.

"Know what you are getting into." to avoid disappointment.

It's not just the military where one hears, "I didn't join to clean."

Edited.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The Royal Marines Band Service still describe medical and logistical support as a secondary role and even use a photo of a bandsman in a medical facility on their recruiting site.

View attachment 89394

Royal Marines Band Service | Musician Jobs in The Royal Navy

www.royalnavy.mod.uk

While British military bandsmen may have some training and been employed more recently in the traditional role of "stretcher bearer", I don't think the same holds true for Canadian military musicians despite that secondary role having been brought up on numerous occasions as justification. The only experience I ever had with a CAF musician receiving medical training was way back when the earth was cooling. There was a Cpl musician on my TQ3, however he was a remuster to Med A. When the use of bandsmen as stretcher bearers was brought up, he said that while it had been mentioned as one of the "historical" functions of military bands during his musician training, they received no training other than the same first aid that all others did during basic. In the 50 years since then, the importance of emergency medical response has been reiterated but it doesn't appear that CAF musicians (or stewards, for that matter) have been included in the equation.

Based on some of the fitness training I used to watch our 'Band-aids' go through, like running up and down hills lugging 180lb stretchers while getting yelled at, I doubt alot of our band members would survive that

 

[JLB50]

Perhaps the time has come for employers like the CAF, and others, to mention cleaning responsibilities - before offering applicants a job.

"Know what you are getting into." to avoid disappointment.

It's not just the military where one hears, "I didn't join to clean."

“I didn’t join to clean” is not a quote that I made.

 

[mariomike]

“I didn’t join to clean” is not a quote that I made.

My mistake. Edited.

It was another reader,

I'll tell you why that is, and I hold this from a lot of "exit" interviews, if I can call them that (That is I spoke with a fair number of women that released from the RCN to find out why they quit/did not resign for further service): One of the major activity on a ship is cleaning. Yep! we're always cleaning something, somewhere on the ship. We spend about 20% of the working day cleaning, and then some at night. You are on watch on the bridge in quiet time: you grab a piece of cloth and clean!

And women, for the most part, join the military to get away from household chores. The Navy quickly lose its appeal to them because to quote some: "I can do that at home and not have to bother with the long hours or being away from my loved ones. I didn't join to clean."

 

[OldSolduer]

Bandsmen were also trained and employed as first aid teams/ stretcher bearers and ammo resupply bods.

They were - CAF musicians by trade don't perform these tasks.

 

[Navy_Pete]

People who bitch about cleaning stations should see what it’s like on a ship that doesn't do cleaning stations.

Ugh, I can smell this post.... That's really a 5 sense experience, some things smell bad enough you can taste it as well.

 

[FSTO]

Ugh, I can smell this post.... That's really a 5 sense experience, some things smell bad enough you can taste it as well.

Russian factory fish trawler on a warm calm day on the Grand Banks anyone?

 

[Eaglelord17]

People who bitch about cleaning stations should see what it’s like on a ship that doesn't do cleaning stations.

Cleaning stations can be made better.

I found it stupid that most ships do cleaning stations based off time instead of results. If it takes 5 minutes to clean it effectively, pretending to clean for another hour because someone dictated it must be done for a hour isn’t helping anything.

 

[Ostrozac]

I note with interest the contrast from when the Canadian Army changed its march past, in 2013, from “Celer Paratus Callidus” to “The Great Little Army”. This was the opposite sort of change from the Navy’s though, exchanging a distinctly Canadian march with a linguistically-neutral Latin name for a very British one.

“Celer Paramus Callidus” was the motto of Mobile Command, so it was organically Canadian — a shoutout to the decades when the brigades wore the arrow cross rather than the swords and maples. That the Army in the end rejected it suggests to me that culture change in the Canadian Forces isn’t a movement, it’s more like a wobbly pendulum, erracticly swinging back and forth. The Army in 2013 wanted to be a little more British, the Navy in 2024 wants to be a little less British. We are neither good reactionaries, comfortable with our inherited past, nor good futurists, confidently looking ahead. Instead we are doomed to constantly overcorrect. No doubt some future Admiral will eventually re-adopt “Heart of Oak” to celebrate the RCN’s 200th anniversary or something, when the trends are moving the other direction.

The Army didn’t actually care enough to update the official manual, though. “CPC” is still listed as the march past for “Land Force Command” — because doing the homework and updating stuff just isn’t done around here.

Heritage Structure | Annex A – Authorized marches in order of precedence - Canada.ca

The Heritage Structure of the Canadian Force

www.canada.ca

In the Army context, it’s a little redundant though, I don’t think I’ve ever heard either Army march actually played in the wild — (presumably they play them at Change of Command for the Army Commander?) — identity in the Army is too wrapped up in Corps and Regiments. Actually, if the CRCN really wanted to minimize the prominence of “Heart of Oak” the way to do it might be to encourage writing and using original MARPAC and MARLANT marches, once “HOO” is closely identified with NCR sailors, it would be quietly buried.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Ugh, I can smell this post.... That's really a 5 sense experience, some things smell bad enough you can taste it as well.

You know that smell when you open the hatch in the port hanger lobby after you've been off ships for a while... It really smacks you in the face.

And yes some smells can be tasted.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Heart of Oak isn’t actually disappearing though. It’s been incorporated into the RCN’s new general salute. Personally, I think this is the best result. It allows us to recognise our past while opening the possibility of creating a more distinct culturally relevant identity through the adoption of a new march.

The English history of the RCN is the most culturally relevant part about the RCN.

 

[Grimey]

Based on some of the fitness training I used to watch our 'Band-aids' go through, like running up and down hills lugging 180lb stretchers while getting yelled at, I doubt alot of our band members would survive that

My old man said the tank tread stretcher race was worse than the log.

 

[daftandbarmy]

My old man said the tank tread stretcher race was worse than the log.

It was all bad, of course.

The log race was only 2 miles, at a full sprint mind you. The stretcher race was about 7 as I recall.

Both were torture but the stretcher was a much longer version, especially if some of your team fell out, so I'd have to agree with your Dad

 

[Navy_Pete]

You know that smell when you open the hatch in the port hanger lobby after you've been off ships for a while... It really smacks you in the face.

And yes some smells can be tasted.

I never quite got used to it, and missed the old 280s that just smelled like diesel.

The other time I noticed it was the odd occasion when I got a hotel or something ashore, and went to pull on clean clothes after getting out of the shower, and your clothes reeked like the CPFs. I started laundering some of them ashore, storing a few things in a vacuum sealed bag with a dryer sheet, and keeping those for that kind of occasion.

@Eaglelord17 every operational ship I was on cleaning stations at sea was a window, not a start/end time, so the only real thing was waiting for the XO (or designate) to do the walkthrough inspection on the heads and washplaces. Depending on how many people were available, might take 20-30 minutes for a routine cleaning, or longer for a good deep clean (usually before a port visit). When I eventually got into the walkthrough rotation, I made sure to switch up the order regularly so the same people weren't always waiting around forever, and tried to do spots like the common ADR head ASAP so folks had somewhere to use.

But generally as long as the standard was kept high the inspection took marginally longer than if you just walked the route without stopping. When things would start to get gross was when the whole thing started taking longer.

People not being giant assholes and practicing good headiquette by cleaning up after themselves as they go helped a lot; if you have that in place cleaning stations was really just a quick scrub of the toilets, mop the deck and empty the garbage.

With how many strong feelings people have about bad headiquette, or the destruction some people can lay to an innocent toilet, surprised there isn't some kind of you tube song speculating at what point you get promoted and your arsehole moves up to the small of you back. Between Smokin in the Wardroom and Destroying the Porcelain we could get a few unofficial anthems from the coal face.