Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]

[CombatDoc]

Burn, falling/impact injuries, and inhalation injuries (ie smoke).  Problem with Afghanistan combat is that the mechanism of injury was very different so the casualty care needs to be different.  Also hypothermia, hyperthermia are problems with the army as well, guys were getting hypothermia in the middle of the dessert because of the temp differential at night.

  Not sure how handy quick clot is in burn injuries, seeing that it cooks the flesh when its working.  Also quick clot and israeli bandages do not mix well with water.  At all.  Maybe a need for a few tourniquets onboard but losing a leg is not a very likely injury, maybe in every first aid kit (with the quick clot).  But with an entire casualty care system in place onboard all we really need to do is stock them, not carry them on every member.  Ideally you'll be handing your first aid over to a casualty clearing team within 6 minutes of an injury, usually much faster.  It's usually about getting the casualty clear of the fire and then treating at a safe point.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this topic. I agree that smoke and inhalation injury in confined spaces are a complicating injury. However, every member of the ship's company also needs to be carrying a tourniquet.

If you understand blast injury, then you understand that the mechanism of injury from explosion - such as an anti-ship missile - is actually very similar. RN ships (remember the Sheffield) in the Falklands, the USS Cole - they are blast and burn. The USS Cole incident would likely have been much worse if they had not had additional medical staff aboard (a Physician Assistant, IIRC). Your comment that all you need is "a few tourniquets onboard" demonstrates you do not understand significant traumatic injury. The CCT is not going to save your life when one of your limbs has been detached from your body, and within 6 min your gas tank will be empty because you've bled out. The ship's Physician Assistant will be overwhelmed by casualties, and you had better hope you are in a Task Force group with surgical capability and the ability to evacuate casualties.

But, clearly that's just my opinion based on experience working as a trauma team leader at the Role 3 in Kandahar, as well as serving on both coasts with the Navy.

 

[PuckChaser]

At the end of the day, a TQ weighs nothing to carry around in an easily accessible pocket. Better to have and not need...

 

[jollyjacktar]

We will just have to agree to disagree on this topic. I agree that smoke and inhalation injury in confined spaces are a complicating injury. However, every member of the ship's company also needs to be carrying a tourniquet.

If you understand blast injury, then you understand that the mechanism of injury from explosion - such as an anti-ship missile - is actually very similar. RN ships (remember the Sheffield) in the Falklands, the USS Cole - they are blast and burn. The USS Cole incident would likely have been much worse if they had not had additional medical staff aboard (a Physician Assistant, IIRC). Your comment that all you need is "a few tourniquets onboard" demonstrates you do not understand significant traumatic injury. The CCT is not going to save your life when one of your limbs has been detached from your body, and within 6 min your gas tank will be empty because you've bled out. The ship's Physician Assistant will be overwhelmed by casualties, and you had better hope you are in a Task Force group with surgical capability and the ability to evacuate casualties.

But, clearly that's just my opinion based on experience working as a trauma team leader at the Role 3 in Kandahar, as well as serving on both coasts with the Navy.

Bang on, too.

 

[CombatDoc]

It was not my intention to drag this thread off-topic from NCDs. However, if the RCN adopts nothing else widely from the CFA toolbox, at least have everyone carry one TQ as PuckChaser suggested.

 

[Lumber]

It was not my intention to drag this thread off-topic from NCDs. However, if the RCN adopts nothing else widely from the CFA toolbox, at least have everyone carry one TQ as PuckChaser suggested.

Why can't we just have TQs built into our NCD pants and jackets?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/29/navy_seals_tourniquet_trousers/

 

[CombatDoc]

I suspect because the trial data on effectiveness are not yet available, and also cost. But, perhaps a CTS or LCMM type can chime in. I did like the phrase in the article "the new ziploc bloodspurt-stifling apparel".

 

[Pusser]

Why can't we just have TQs built into our NCD pants and jackets?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/29/navy_seals_tourniquet_trousers/

Looks like a pretty clever idea to me.  Just think of the fun that pranksters could have when their mates fall asleep?  ;D

 

[MedCorps]

But, clearly that's just my opinion based on experience working as a trauma team leader at the Role 3 in Kandahar, as well as serving on both coasts with the Navy.

If you do not trust ArmyDoc (and I would not, being an army guy ranting about things navy <smile>) it is worth a read of the book, The Red and Green Life Machine, by Surg Cdr Rick Jolly, OBE, RN. It talks both about medical support to the RN and land forces during the Falklands war and was a real eye opener (for me) on the topics of casualties sustained on modern ships, the complications of treating these casualties afloat and the even greater complications of evacuating these casualties to surgical care. The story of the casualties from the RFA Sir Galahad alone is enough to keep you up at night.

Cheers,

MC

 

[Blackadder1916]

If do not trust ArmyDoc (and I would not, being an army guy ranting about things navy <smile>) it is worth a read of the book, The Red and Green Life Machine, by Surg Cdr Rick Jolly, OBE, RN. It talks both about medical support to the RN and land forces during the Falklands war and was a real eye opener (for me) on the topics of casualties sustained on modern ships, the complications of treating these casualties afloat and the even greater complications of evacuating these casualties to surgical care. The story of the casualties from the RFA Sir Galahad alone is enough to keep you up at night.

Cheers,

MC

Jolly's book is a good read.  Back in the 1980s, following the Falklands War, he did a presentation at NDMC.  Interesting stuff.

For those interested, there may be some articles that expand on the preparations for and treatment of naval casualties of that conflict in articles in the 1983 volume of The Journal of the Royal Naval Medical Service.

 

[jollyjacktar]

If do not trust ArmyDoc (and I would not, being an army guy ranting about things navy <smile>) it is worth a read of the book, The Red and Green Life Machine, by Surg Cdr Rick Jolly, OBE, RN. It talks both about medical support to the RN and land forces during the Falklands war and was a real eye opener (for me) on the topics of casualties sustained on modern ships, the complications of treating these casualties afloat and the even greater complications of evacuating these casualties to surgical care. The story of the casualties from the RFA Sir Galahad alone is enough to keep you up at night.

Cheers,

MC

In the mid 80's I drove an ambulance out of Rocky Mountain House.  One of my first calls was a 0'dark 30 head on collision call west of the town, near Nordegg.  Coincidentally, which also happened to be where the British Army had their mountain warfare school.

When we arrived on scene the soldiers had things pretty much under control.  I was a little shook up and was told by the RSM not to worry, he had been on the Sir Galahad as well as multiple tours to NI.  He said "ah, lad if a leg's not off,  just stick a band aid on it, they'll survive".  Totally unflappable.  They also managed to get a brew on while we waited for the emergency room doctor to be brought out.

 

[Eric Wang]

I've heard there is a new uniform coming for the navy and it's currently waiting for approval. One of the POs from my unit said the new uniform will be a black and white camo or something. Is this true? If it is, are there any pictures of it online?

 

[Lightguns]

Good rumour, should go far, racial camo.......

 

[Eland2]

I've heard there is a new uniform coming for the navy and it's currently waiting for approval. One of the POs from my unit said the new uniform will be a black and white camo or something. Is this true? If it is, are there any pictures of it online?

If this is true, it might well be based on a prototype naval combat dress ensemble that was released for consideration last year, like the one shown in the picture, with a camouflage pattern instead of an all-black colour.

 

[dapaterson]

Bah.  We need one of HMCS to be designated as a Highland unit.  Just think: stokers in kilts.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Bah.  We need one of HMCS to be designated as a Highland unit.  Just think: stokers in kilts.

Well, it will make access to one the three naval traditions easier.

 

[Eland2]

If a camouflage-type NCD ensemble is released, I wonder if it will be a CADPAT pattern or something else, maybe something closer to what the Royal Australian Navy have.

 

[mariomike]

If a camouflage-type NCD ensemble is released, I wonder if it will be a CADPAT pattern or something else, maybe something closer to what the Royal Australian Navy have.

See also,

NAVAL COMBAT DRESS (NCD)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/49086.150.html
7 pages.

NCD
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+ncd&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=AuitWIbEFKeC8QeYy57oCQ&gws_rd=ssl#

 

[CombatDoc]

I've heard there is a new uniform coming for the navy and it's currently waiting for approval. One of the POs from my unit said the new uniform will be a black and white camo or something. Is this true? If it is, are there any pictures of it online?

I believe the proper name would be "Canadian Salt & Pepper pattern" or CANSAP for short. ;D

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . .  the new uniform will be a black and white camo or something. . . .

Something . . . like this?

 

[Underway]

I was thinking more of a dalmatian or zebra print myself.