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My Obstacles to Joining the Canadian Infantry

OberstSteiner said:
I disagree with the way the forces handle things, especially my file.

As pointed out by others, the security check portion of your file is not handled by the CF so maybe you place your disagreements on a CSIS-related website.

I'm a serving CF member in a security-sensitive position and it took 3 years to get my clearance.

You havent broken any rules as of late but most ( if not all) of your posts come across as relentless whinning. You are not the only one who has had to wait and you wont be the last one. The CF isnt at fault for the way the rules are and not at fault for you having lived out of the country.
 
The CF has lost and misplaced my file a few times while in their hands, so they are not completely blameless. I will now commence a whine-free period where my posts will contain brilliant comentary ONLY! Thanks for hearing my bitching and the replies to them.
 
OberstSteiner said:
I will now commence a whine-free period where my posts will contain brilliant comentary ONLY! Thanks for hearing my bitching and the replies to them.

In the military, we call that "radio silence".  Enjoy. 
 
Not to hijack this thread, but I'd like to add my own experience so far with the recruiting process.

I graduated from university in 2001 and went to China to teach English and work. I spent about four years working in China then came back to Canada to go back to school - I also brought back my wife, who is a Chinese national. I spent two years in Canada, one year in school working on a post-baccalaureate business diploma and a masters degree and second year looking for work. In December 2006 I took the CFAT, applying for intelligence, subsequently adding logistics and armoured to my choices.

Immediately after taking the CFAT, I was brought in to speak to an officer in regards to my application. Due to the length of time I was in China, and my spouse's citizenship, I was told there may be problems for security clearance.

From that point it's been a rollercoaster for my pre-security clearance. From a variety of people I was told a variety of information, at one point my file was closed, and at another it was "limbo". The officer handling my file now seems to have a better idea of how to proceed - he told me that when I applied they had just implemented new rules for security checks and no one knew how to handle my file.

Since that time, I've moved back to China to work, my academic programme has a co-op portion and I need to work to pass that in order to get my diploma and degree. I return to Canada every six-months to meet residency requirements.

I was told that the biggest issue is that I lived for such a long time in an "unfriendly" country and due to the difficulty of getting a criminal background check in China, it may scuttle my application. I managed to get a criminal check done in China - not something I recommend anyone to do, and in itself is another story. I've sent in my Chinese criminal background check, which was then forwarded to the authorities in Ottawa. As of now, I'll have to wait until January before I know if Ottawa - I'm assuming RCMP or CSIS - will require an enhanced security check to be done. I've been told that'll take upwards to two years... just to have my CF application approved.

It's been already a year, and I've been using it productively to get my physical fitness level up (which has been great motivator), but another potential two year wait is just too much for me. I don't want to put my life on hold for two years only to be declined, but on the flip-side, I don't want to start a new career only to be told I've been accepted in two years. Also, having my application approved doesn't give any indication that I will be offered a position. 

While I totally understand the need for security checks, it seems to me the CF, or as mentioned before, CSIS, doesn't have a mechanism to take into consideration overseas experience. Asking me to get a criminal background check in China was a pretty big stretch... not something I recommended, and I was very very fortunate to have the right connections to accomplish that. From what I understand, China isn't forthcoming with information requested by Interpol, so I can understand the difficulties faced by official gov't organs.

I can only hope the security check processes in the future can be streamlined given the large numbers of Canadians who have worked and lived overseas and may want to serve their country. I like to think I have the skills and ability to serve the CF proudly, but it's been a trial so far. Maybe I applied at the wrong time, when regulations were being changed, but when know one can answer your questions, or each person has a different answer or answers differently at different times, it's hard not to become demoralized. For now, I can only wait with trepidation that the news in January will be positive, but either way I'll know how things stand.
 
That's quite an odyssey.  Assuming you speak Chinese and know a thing or two about the culture one would have thought you'd be a tremendous assest in the Intelligence world. I hope they have some good news for you in the new year. Good luck in your application.
 
eilaw:

Does CSIS have a non-official discussion board somewhere?  I don't know - but THAT is where these security clearance type questions belong.

You acknowledge that the security clearance problems are a CSIS thing - and yet you want the CF to streamline it.

From what you said, I'm sure you'd be a valuable asset - but you're barking up the wrong tree.
 
Let's just start off by stating the obvious for those here that are ignorant.

China is a communist country and is considered to be an espionage (and many other threats) threat to most Western countries.

You were living in China prior to putting in your application, married to a Chinese National, travel back and forth every six months and you're back in China and awaiting your security clearance to go through? That's 4 big red flags waving in my face and I'm a layman.

Chinese background checks don't count outside of China. It will be taken into account but won't be relied on.

CSIS will not cut corners or streamline the process, especially for someone who wants to get into a trade such as Int.

It's there for a reason and it works.

Regards

 
I hope I didn't come across as whining in my post, my point in posting was to highlight some of the obstacles I'm currently facing.

Roy: I don't know if CSIS has a board somewhere - but it's a good idea to take a look - I'm a regular lurker on Army.ca and when I saw this thread I thought others might find my experience interesting - I shouldn't have made it sound like I want the CF to change. Those are the rules, and I can only abide by them, I'm willing to wait and if the CF doesn't want me for whatever reason, then, although disappointing, I'll move on.

To be honest, I'm not completely clear where the hold-up is. Whether it's RCMP or CSIS, I'm not sure how the process works. My case officer has vaguely said things about Ottawa, about RCMP, about CSIS. I can only vaguely hope whichever relevant institution will streamline this process, but I'm also assuming each institution has an important part in making sure communication and processes are streamlined - they must work closely with each other and have influence on the policies in place.

Recce by Death: Yes China is a major source of espionage, but I'm not asking for corners to be cut for my sake. At this point it seems to me that people who have worked overseas have a fairly large mark against them, fairly or not. I agree living and working in China should raise security flags, but there should be ways for whichever institution to do their checks to their satisfaction, and that to me seems lacking. It's almost as, "Your situation is unique, oh well and tough luck."

Like I previously wrote, I was told the RCMP can only ask Interpol for a background check and if the Chinese counterpart doesn't respond then there's nothing else they can do. Well, there should be a secondary process. Polygraph? Loyalty test? Hockey quiz? I don't have the answers, but it frustrates me is that I get the impression that I'm a special case and since I don't fit into the peg, then there's nothing else that can be done.

I'm not applying to CSIS, so I understand military requirements versus civilian requirements will be different (I'm assuming CSIS will more readily recruit people who have lived extensively overseas, have overseas connections, etc), but I honestly believe overlooking people who have extensive international experience is a detriment to the CF. Living overseas can be a vastly rewarding experience and give people insights into a culture and people that can't be attained any other way, and in my case, makes one to realize how great a place Canada is.

The Chinese background check was requested by my file officer to check on the time I was in China - if it's not valid, why ask for it? I hope it's given some weight, especially the difficulty I went through in getting it, plus it seems like my only hope at the moment staving off a prolonged enhanced check.

Again, I don't want to come off as whining, just letting people know my experience in applying. I'm not blaming the CF, RCMP, or CSIS. But it would be shame to lose potentially valuable members with unique experiences because there are no secondary processes available to ensure they're not a security risk. It must be a difficult task to do security checks on someone who has spent a significant amount of time overseas, but given how globalized people now, it would be worthwhile to have something in place for such people.

Hope this post didn't stray too much off topic.
 
Hey everyone, I see the thread has been busy while I was away lol.

Well I got home today from christmas visits to find a message from the recruiting centre on my machine. I had informed my room  mate to contact me if this were to happen, not sure why it wasnt done.

Anyhow all the message said was that they wanted to talk to me. Not sure if there is a problem or if they have a swearing in date for me, when I last talked to them I confirmed that my receipt from enbridge had been received and was sufficient, both answers yes. So I have no idea what it is about.

So my question, when will the recruiting centre open again so I can get in contact with them??? I am supposed to be leaving town again for a few days this sunday but dont want to go if I will have to be sworn in or address some other issue with my application.

Please let me know asap. Thanks for all the help over the last few months guys and gals :D.

Dylan
 
Most should be reopened by 3 Jan but with a minimum staff. You may have to wait until 7 Jan to talk to your file manager.
 
ok I will call them on thursday and see what I can find out then. Thanks a bunch.
 
Just got off the phone with my recruiting centre, they said I will have to wait until my file manager is in on monday but it looks to them like they will be calling concerning a swearing in. :D
 
hoot33 said:
Just got off the phone with my recruiting centre, they said I will have to wait until my file manager is in on monday in. :D

Awesome, this thread can die at last
 
CDN Aviator said:
Awesome, this thread can die at last

HOORAH! Soon you'll be polishing boots and counting push ups....FUN!!! Hopefully this isn't premature but welcome to the CF....a totally awesome outfit! ;D
 
So I've got my BMQ dates now :D, I start Jan 21st, there was a cancellation so Im in Borden :D. I get sworn in this thursday.

So happy Im finally there.

Thanks everyone.

Dylan
 
hoot33 said:
So I've got my BMQ dates now :D, I start Jan 21st, there was a cancellation so Im in Borden :D. I get sworn in this thursday.

So happy Im finally there.

Thanks everyone.

Dylan
Congratulations and best of luck to you!
 
hoot33 said:
So I've got my BMQ dates now :D, I start Jan 21st, there was a cancellation so Im in Borden :D. I get sworn in this thursday.

So happy Im finally there.

Thanks everyone.

Dylan

That's great news!!! Good luck to you on this next step.
 
Great.... preliminaries taken care of. Congratulations.
Time to start limbering up - some push ups, sit ups and general all round running....
 
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