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MP Response to fire - Split from First infantry regular force female LCol.

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MedCorps

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dapaterson said:

She was a Major in R22eR in 2014 when she had a Courts Martial.
http://decisia.jmc-cmj.forces.gc.ca/jmc-cmj/cm/en/item/98921/index.do?r=AAAAAQAIV2VsbHdvb2QB

Interesting case.  Nice to see that the reprimand did not affect her career.

I have crossed paths with LCol Wellwood on a number of occasions over the past 15 years and she is a good person and will do a great job as a LCol. The RCIC is lucky to have her.

MC
 

brihard

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Sheep Dog AT said:
I wonder why the MP wasn't charged with assault.

Lawful use of force to overcome obstruction of the conduct of his duties, maybe?
 

Pusser

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Brihard said:
Lawful use of force to overcome obstruction of the conduct of his duties, maybe?

Tenuous.  The MP was out of line - the Judge even said so.  I would like to think the MP's chain of command dealt with this appropriately.

Reminds me of a similar experience of my own a few years ago when an MP drove through a gate he shouldn't have to conduct an "investigation" he was unqualified to do.  I insisted he leave immediately (which he did) and his chain of command dealt with it.

Now, to get back on track:  Congratulations to the new LCol!  :salute:
 

RCDtpr

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Pusser said:
Tenuous.  The MP was out of line - the Judge even said so.  I would like to think the MP's chain of command dealt with this appropriately.

Reminds me of a similar experience of my own a few years ago when an MP drove through a gate he shouldn't have to conduct an "investigation" he was unqualified to do.  I insisted he leave immediately (which he did) and his chain of command dealt with it.

Now, to get back on track:  Congratulations to the new LCol!  :salute:

She was equally out of line and frankly I'd expect a bit more maturity from a major.

As for the MP not being qualified to investigate......so you decide what police officers are qualified to investigate what?

Back on track....if she was the most qualified for the promotion then well done to her....nice to see a pioneer in this day and age.
 

Scoobie Newbie

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ExRCDcpl said:
She was equally out of line and frankly I'd expect a bit more maturity from a major.

As for the MP not being qualified to investigate......so you decide what police officers are qualified to investigate what?

Back on track....if she was the most qualified for the promotion then well done to her....nice to see a pioneer in this day and age.

I'm sure he has information to back up his claim.
 

RCDtpr

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Sheep Dog AT said:
I'm sure he has information to back up his claim.

I'm sure he doesn't.....while I'm not disputing whether or not the MP was in the right or wrong as I wasn't there....I will dispute his claim the MP was not qualified to investigate.  MPs are the police....police investigate crimes, and nobody save for a higher ranking police officer, tells a police officer what he can or cannot investigate.
 

quadrapiper

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ExRCDcpl said:
I'm sure he doesn't.....while I'm not disputing whether or not the MP was in the right or wrong as I wasn't there....I will dispute his claim the MP was not qualified to investigate.  MPs are the police....police investigate crimes, and nobody save for a higher ranking police officer, tells a police officer what he can or cannot investigate.
Wild guess is it had something to do with clearances not held by the MP.
 

Pusser

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ExRCDcpl said:
I'm sure he doesn't.....while I'm not disputing whether or not the MP was in the right or wrong as I wasn't there....I will dispute his claim the MP was not qualified to investigate.  MPs are the police....police investigate crimes, and nobody save for a higher ranking police officer, tells a police officer what he can or cannot investigate.

There was no crime.  It was actually a fire.  The MP breezed through the gate without authority and ended up in a dangerous place with an unauthorized radio and unauthorized weapons.  He was a danger to himself and everyone else.  Appropriate technical authorities conducted the investigation.
 

RCDtpr

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Pusser said:
There was no crime.  It was actually a fire.  The MP breezed through the gate without authority and ended up in a dangerous place with an unauthorized radio and unauthorized weapons.  He was a danger to himself and everyone else.  Appropriate technical authorities conducted the investigation.

I retract my statement....that guy sounds like a doorknob.
 

George Wallace

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ExRCDcpl said:
I retract my statement....that guy sounds like a doorknob.

In all honesty, many of us have met such "Cowboys" representing the MP Trade, and it has been those few who have given the whole Trade the rep they have (like the bad apples whom give any Trade or organization a bad name). 
 

dapaterson

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To be fair, I've met doorknobs in every trade and occupation.  And some mornings, reflecting on things I've done, I've seen a pretty glaring one in the mirror...
 

ballz

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Brihard said:
Lawful use of force to overcome obstruction of the conduct of his duties, maybe?

Wouldn't he have to detain her in some fashion to use force? If she wasn't detained she was as free to walk into her own CP as anyone else was. If she wasn't detained, and wasn't resisting arrest, use of force doesn't seem lawful?
 

chrisf

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I lost all respect for and patience with meatheads (And that's a deliberately chosen insult) when I had one physically push me out of the way... apparently she needed to get a "statement"...

Said meathead wasn't too good with the whole situational awareness thing, because until she shoved me out of the way, I had been doing c-spine support for a soldier who'd been knocked unconscious... at the direction of the paramedics who were checking the soldier over and getting the spine board ready to load her into the ambulance...

Meathead never did get her statement, given the troop was unconscious... and taken to the hospital prior to regaining consciousness...

Given that there was no "crime" committed (Individual had been struck by a mod purlong while loading a truck, three stooges style), and no one called the damned MPs, and given that she had potentially endangered the life of the soldier, I wanted to take this up with her chain of command... my chain of command told me to "drop it".

Five years later, still pissed off about the incident.
 

Scoobie Newbie

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Again I think it's not fair to judge them all the same (not trying to suggest anyone is). I know they're are iggnorant Ammo techs and awesome ones. Same goes with MPs. I have one respond to a pn alarm in the compound lights going and didn't even have the where withall to stop at the admin building which you must pass to go into the compound to see where said alarm was occurring. Instead he drove around wasting his time for 10 before coming back to find out where the mag was.

Had another one pull me over for rolling through a stop sign but had no idea about what paperwork I needed to provide him since his previous posting was ON which is slightly diff then MB and he just arrived recently. Needless to say a call to his boss resulted in me given a warning and him going back to talk with his boss.

I also had an MP pull me over for burned out head lights. I told him I was going to Wpg to the dealer (none in Brandon) so he let me go without a ticket.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Do not think this is a MP bashing thread. If you can't be civil, don't post. Rule infractions will result in warnings or worse.

---Staff---
 

RCDtpr

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ballz said:
Wouldn't he have to detain her in some fashion to use force? If she wasn't detained she was as free to walk into her own CP as anyone else was. If she wasn't detained, and wasn't resisting arrest, use of force doesn't seem lawful?

No a person does not need to be detained or under arrest for a police officer to use force.  It's quite common for me to be called to the bar/residence/wherever and forcefully remove an unwanted person.  As soon as they are out the door if they settle down they are normally free to go at that point.

From reading that case law the issue doesn't seem to be her walking into the CP; the issue was her telling everyone else not to co-operate.....which is obstruction.  The fact of the matter is regardless how anyone thinks the MP acted (I will agree the comment was stupid) the MP was in the right and this was supported by the finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt by a judge.
 

Journeyman

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ExRCDcpl said:
The fact of the matter is regardless how anyone thinks the MP acted (I will agree the comment was stupid) the MP was in the right and this was supported by the finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt by a judge.

Well that same judge stated [para 8 in transcript]
....the peace officer behaved in a manner that I find to be absolutely unacceptable for a representative of the law, civilian or military. In a military context, it matters little that those with peace officer powers are not subordinates, except by their rank, as the case may be, of Forces members, who are the subjects of their day-to-day duties. They are still Forces members and are themselves subject to the duties and obligations incumbent on Canadian Forces members with regard to respect towards both subordinates in rank and superior officers.
The judge didn't appear to have any reasonable doubts in that statement.  Defend who you will.
 

RCDtpr

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Your point being what?  I never said the MP acted professionally......but obviously he did not step outside the boundaries of the law and his decision to recommend charges was correct as was demonstrated by the Major being found guilty.
 
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