- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
Lack of troops
operational tempo
Plug and Play Battle groups IMO
have negated the ability you speak of
operational tempo
Plug and Play Battle groups IMO
have negated the ability you speak of
Military still struggling in Arctic
- Thread starter kilekaldar
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
Lone Wolf, I watch the news, you guys are taxed beyond anything we ever saw. We always had lots of time, predictable PCF cycles, RVs or Waincons, and winter ex's. Hats off to you all. Makes me proud to have worn the capbadge(s).
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
I read with interest the comments on what today's young soldiers have to put up with while taking Winter Training and can understand some of the problems they are facing..... however I cannot understand why time would be wasted in training in Base Borden..... it has been many years since I spent time running around Borden as a young RCASC Soldier Apprentice Jan 54 to Jul 55, but I never seen it cold enough to worry about taking Winter In doctrination.... I spent 2 years in Rivers Manitoba and found it a little chillier after jumping and field rolling an old T10 parachute, but in 1959 while on a Junior NCO course in Manitoba I can still remember spending a week doing winter training from the Carberry Hills into Shilo, Man. dragging sleds.... Manually.... we didn't have the luxery of snow mobiles, we lived in arctic tents, did our own cooking, and walked from one range to another, I can still remember how our feet became scalded from the sweat in our mukluks..... mind you I never had to worry about going to far North but then Camp Shilo could be bad enough in January.. I'm also reminded of my father while serving in the RCAF being sent to an Arctic positng in a place called Kittygazuit, NWT..( it was around 1949 ish and I can't trust my spelling from those days, I still have some Red Fox pelts that he traded with the Eskimos stored somewhere in my home, I also remember he brought home a Polar Bear rug, he eventually had to burn, hugh weather balloons, a large piece of Mastadon Tusk that was found in the ice by the Eskimos, it eventually decayed once it came out of its ice storage... I can remember photos that he sent us, he sure looked cold...
my blessing to today's young men and women of the Forces, they have a whole new set of rules to live and/or die by......
Gerry Logan
Nil Sine Labore
my blessing to today's young men and women of the Forces, they have a whole new set of rules to live and/or die by......
Gerry Logan
Nil Sine Labore
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
It's sad really when you think that a few decades ago we used to be one of the prominent winter warfare militaries, along with the Norwegians and the Finns. We were so good at it that the Americans used to send their troops and instructors up here to get qualified.
Then there was our EME's who kept our vehicles and LOSV's running, most of the time working in exposed conditions with the mercury dipping well below -30, but they did it.
A point to bring up here about water in the fuel lines, why didn't the CQ have Isopropanol to mix with the gasoline, this would have solved their engine problems. A few ounces in every gas tank and voila, no more condensation, works everytime. Contact gloves, what, we don't issue them anymore? Common sense, hand warm, metal cold, touch cold metal, hand sticks to metal, get frostbite, or worse loose some skin.
You don't use regular MRE's in the artic, of course they freeze. Hot water freezes three times faster than cold water. Doesn't the military have dehydrated rations anymore? Add hot water stir, eat. Chilli-con-cardy, eat one of these and you could crap through a cheerio at 30 feet, standing up! Just don't let anyone smoke near you. ;D
I think the powers to be in Ottawa have to go digging in the pham library and dust of a few of them old winter warfare phams and start teaching how to properly train troops in winter warfare. Starting with the basics, because we seem to have even lost that.
Damn shame.
Then there was our EME's who kept our vehicles and LOSV's running, most of the time working in exposed conditions with the mercury dipping well below -30, but they did it.
A point to bring up here about water in the fuel lines, why didn't the CQ have Isopropanol to mix with the gasoline, this would have solved their engine problems. A few ounces in every gas tank and voila, no more condensation, works everytime. Contact gloves, what, we don't issue them anymore? Common sense, hand warm, metal cold, touch cold metal, hand sticks to metal, get frostbite, or worse loose some skin.
You don't use regular MRE's in the artic, of course they freeze. Hot water freezes three times faster than cold water. Doesn't the military have dehydrated rations anymore? Add hot water stir, eat. Chilli-con-cardy, eat one of these and you could crap through a cheerio at 30 feet, standing up! Just don't let anyone smoke near you. ;D
I think the powers to be in Ottawa have to go digging in the pham library and dust of a few of them old winter warfare phams and start teaching how to properly train troops in winter warfare. Starting with the basics, because we seem to have even lost that.
Damn shame.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Well.. let... me... see... 
Take two ice cube trays, fill one with hot boiling water and the other with cold tap water, place them both in the freezer, come back in 1 hour and have a look at the tray that was filled with the hot water, its already almost frozen through, the tray with the cold water is still mainly liquid.
Never did this is high school? Has something to do with surface tension and evaporation. The surface tension of hot water is lower and also evaporates faster than the cold water. So the hot water freezes faster.
That's why in the artic we use "pressure cookers" to heat rations or boil, water, if you heated your meals in and open pot in -30 or whatever, most of the water would evaporate very quickly into the cold air. Use a pressure cooker and now you not only save the water from evaporating, but you also heat your meals or boil your water 3-4 times faster, using less fuel and less water. Winter warfare 101, get a pham it's all in there.
Some of he older guys on here who were with 1RCR when we used to go to Norway for winter warfare training, will know what i'm talking about.
Take two ice cube trays, fill one with hot boiling water and the other with cold tap water, place them both in the freezer, come back in 1 hour and have a look at the tray that was filled with the hot water, its already almost frozen through, the tray with the cold water is still mainly liquid.
Never did this is high school? Has something to do with surface tension and evaporation. The surface tension of hot water is lower and also evaporates faster than the cold water. So the hot water freezes faster.
That's why in the artic we use "pressure cookers" to heat rations or boil, water, if you heated your meals in and open pot in -30 or whatever, most of the water would evaporate very quickly into the cold air. Use a pressure cooker and now you not only save the water from evaporating, but you also heat your meals or boil your water 3-4 times faster, using less fuel and less water. Winter warfare 101, get a pham it's all in there.
Some of he older guys on here who were with 1RCR when we used to go to Norway for winter warfare training, will know what i'm talking about.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
Beadwindow 7 said:
Much better... ;D The article is way more realistic in that it explains that freezing is dependant upon many factors other than the drop in temperature. Saying it's three times faster might be true only in very specific cases...
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
Some of he older guys on here who were with 1RCR when we used to go to Norway for winter warfare training, will know what I'm talking about.
Yep, retired Grunt, remember those days well with Duke's in Earton and Norway; I loved the pressure cooker in the griz's.
Yep, retired Grunt, remember those days well with Duke's in Earton and Norway; I loved the pressure cooker in the griz's.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 27,914
- Points
- 1,160
retiredgrunt45 said:
Of all the capabilities we should keep current, it is these important skills in keeping our machines in running order. You can train an infantry company to use tents etc in a relatively short period of time, but it takes years to train the technicians that keep all our vehicles, weapon systems, aircraft, radios and other gizmos operating, and then additional weeks to get them up to speed for arctic ops. We aslo need to make sure that they have the right tools to do the job. Without them, and I'm speaking as an infatryman here, we're just a bunch of armed winter campers.
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 430
retiredgrunt45 said:
Well demonstrated in Alert when, in order to see if the FSO was pulling our leg or not when he said if you threw a cup of boiling water out the door it would be liquid before it hit the ground, we spent an afternoon throwing various sized containers full of boiling water out the door.
A cup worked, the largest pot in the kitchen, did not... the boiling water landed in the dumpster and made the dumpster appear as if it were on fire for several minutes.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I hear ya, xo31@711ret.
Especially when the heater in the Grizz, decides to puke and its -35 outside and the only heat source you have is the Coleman stove and that good old pressure cooker. Pop the combat hatch once in a while to take a breath ;D
The mi litarty certainly lost a very important training resource when they stopped going to Norway. The Norwegians are some of the best cold weather fighters in the world.
Similar threads
