"Men's"/whatever "Christmas"/whatever Dinner (merged)

[Petard]

You've said your unit understands this to be a tradition where your Officers, Warrant Officers and Snr NCO's show their gratitude to their soldiers for their hard work, so how do they rationalize the connection with the guest, who in this case might be a guest that is really only an acquaintance and may or may not know the soldier well, let alone the unit?

Personally I think its bad idea, but recceguy's example is perhaps the best compromise.

Mixed mess functions are intended to show our appreciation to our spouses/significant partner. Non-mixed mess functions are meant to maintain a sense of esprit de corps and liveliness amongst the military members of the unit, and that's where, in a roundabout sense, the men's x-mas dinner lies. It is not purely the soldier's dinner to do as they please, there is a purpose behind it.

 

[spud]

We have the traditional dinner. Officers serve the food, WOs & Sgts serve the beer. Guests show up for the dance and party after the dinner is complete.

That would be my preference....have some fun, some bonding and recognize tradition before the guests get there.

So many people used to b!tch about going to mess dinners; I never went to one that ended up boring. Started maybe...but not at the end. 


potato

 

[PoPo]

I'm all for the standard "Soldiers Festive Dinner" (aka Men's Dinner).  I believe in tradition with the Offr serving the food, and us Snr NCM's the Beverages with the remaining Offr's and Snr NCM's blending their vocal talents (or lack of) in Christmas Caroles.

If it was meant to include spouses, gf/bf etc then it wouldn't be a Soldiers Dinner  - it would be a Christmas Party - lets keep the Soldiers Dinner as just that - a Soldiers Dinner where Esprit de core and morale building is increased.

Just my thoughts

On another Note - anyone else have to take the "Smart Serve" course this year to be able to serve the Alcohol at the Festive Dinner??? I am on one tomorrow afternoon to enable me to serve (once again) at our Dinner on Friday.

PoPo

 

[armyvern]

Let's leave the traditions the way they are. That's why they are called traditions.

My Unit completely fills the kitchen in Gagetown as it is for our Men's Christmas Dinner, there is no possible way spouses/significant others would fit in; nor should they.

I'm there to serve/refill the drinks of my troops/staff. To thank them for their support and their hard work throughout the year; to let them know that I appreciate what they do on a daily basis.

The Coy Christmas party however is open for the spouses & S/O's to attend.

Just my .02 worth.

 

[PhilB]

We have a Mens Christmas dinner open only to serving soldiers, as per tradition. After the dinner anyone is free to come out for the piss up. The next day we have a family dinner. Open to parents, spouses, kids, significant others. I think this is a good compromise because it shows the regiments appreciation not only to the troops but also the families that support the troops. Keeps with tradition and inclusive.

 

[c1984ml]

Spouse here - hope that's okay.

While I appreciate the attempts to be a more family friendly entity, I think it is just as important to remember military traditions.  There is a time and a place for family members; I don't think the Christmas Dinner is one of them.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Barring the name change and some drinking policy changes, the Men's Christmas Dinner (or Soldiers' Holiday Dinner or Soldiers' Appreciation Dinner or Jr Ranks Luncheon or whatever permutation a unit chooses to call it) is one that has remained pretty much the same from its earliest days to the present. 

In 1 PPCLI we will have a traditional Men's Xmas Dinner - I have had it with PC crap.  There will be two free beer, and then a cash bar. No limit.  No tear down will be done, and everyone can stay as long as they like.  The night before, we will have a Battalion Xmas party, with spouses et al.

 

[Duzty]

Somewhat off the mark, but I'll be having my first Men's Christmas Dinner this year.  Sounds like its gonna be a fun time from what I hear on here and on Parade night.

 

[George Wallace]

I agree with all of the above, but have a feeling that the Topic originated here by Barrel Nut, is about a small unit of less than fifty, and no facilities to do any Messing.  Large Cbt Arms units have a very fine tradition and facilities to carry out those traditions, but some of the smaller Units, don't have Drill Halls, nor Messes available.  They congregate in a Restauraunt/Bar for their "Does", each paying their own way, with a token amount from a Unit Fund.  This is where Tradition in this sense is not 'readily available'.  

One more point on Guests.  In the RCD, it was customary to invite some of the 'Old Guard' to the Dinner and sit them at the Head Table, or amongst the Troops, to maintain the 'Family' traditions of the Regiment.  A chance for the Young and to Old to exchange thoughts of how things have changed and how things have remained the same.  

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Just to throw my 2 cents in...

I don't think calling it a Soldier's Xmas Dinner is PC.  I think its accurate, in this day and age.

IMHO.

 

[niner domestic]

I'm female, I'm not insulted by the term Men's Dinner as I have come to understand it has a referral to *the men* under the command of said Os, SNCOs and NCOs in this or that unit/regt as opposed to *the guys* having a a few beer and munchies to the exclusion of *the gals*.  Nor do I feel that the term Men's Dinner excludes those who are female members of the unit/regt. 

I'm also a spouse and absolutely don't feel the need to be included in an event that is for serving members.  I have enough dinners, cocktail parties, luncheons, soirees, entertaining visiting dignitaries and parades to attend with the hubby without trying to add one more into the mix.  Especially the one where he gets to say a hearty thank you to *his men*.

Having cut my teeth in a military that is steeped in traditions, the RN, and then coming back to Canada and joining the CF and seeing the minimal traditions carried on at the time was perplexing to me (just at the time of the end of unification).  So much tradition, was lost during the unification and over the years I was particularly happy to see a lot of traditions make their way back into the daily life of the CF.
I often argued that the move to alter phrases and titles to reflect the female gender was actually making it harder for me to be integrated than if it was just left alone.  I mourned the loss of the traditional Navy toasts to be replaced with not a tradition, but a knee jerk response to PC.  PC does not a tradition make.  The term *gentlemen* never meant to me to be those of testosterone producing only, it always meant a state of behaviour and day-to-day decorum that being a gentleman possesses.  I smiled ear to ear the day I was referred to a gentleman as I knew I had achieved a level of natural behaviour that would stand me in my stead for the rest of me life. 

Leave the term Men's Dinner. 

 

[sigtech]

Leave the "Men's Xmas Dinner" for the Soldier's. Sorry Mud Recce as you know I have never been one to be PC.  ;D

Have a Xmas party to bring your spouse to.

In these days where moral in allot of units is at a all time low. Let's keep a night that I know always put a smile on my face and made me feel like everything I have done over the past year was worth it and appeared in the eyes of officers and Sr NCO's and what better way of doing that then a cheep meal and lots of beer.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I am not that PC either I don't think...I just know there are not just "Men" in the ranks anymore...

 

[armyvern]

I have no problem with it being called the Men's Christmas Dinner, as I understand it's tradition and it's place in today's CF. Most serving women I know, feel the same way I do.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I know my unit is planning to do a mixed dinning in for the Mens Soldiers Christmas Dinner as a way of saying thanks to the spouses/parents/significant others of thoses from the unit that are departing on TF1-07 at no cost, the rest of us must pay a minimual cost if we want to bring spouses/significant others.

For this event I don't see any problems (yay yay I know tradition) with this as this will be our "official send off" for our troops.

My 2 cents, please take it for what its worth.

 

[navymich]

I have no problem with it being called the Men's Christmas Dinner, as I understand it's tradition and it's place in today's CF. Most serving women I know, feel the same way I do.

I concur.

 

[sigtech]

I know my unit is planning to do a mixed dinning in for the Mens Soldiers Christmas Dinner as a way of saying thanks to the spouses/parents/significant others of thoses from the unit that are departing on TF1-07 at no cost, the rest of us must pay a minimual cost if we want to bring spouses/significant others.

For this event I don't see any problems (yay yay I know tradition) with this as this will be our "official send off" for our troops.

My 2 cents, please take it for what its worth.

yay yay I know tradition ? There in lies the problem. Tradition!!! There should be tradition in the Army it builds moral and makes you feel like you are a part of something. I joined in 92' and in my time in the forces I have seen these Tradition's slowly die some are better dead but some like the Xmas dinner shouldn't.

Like I said have the Men's Xmas dinner and then a party for anything like a offical send off,  The xmas dinner has meaning and tradition and by the Lord we need to keep a few traditions going.

I wonder if I said tradition to many times

just my 2 cents

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

My unit started another tradition on what used to be the Men's Christmas dinner. That morning we have a full medals parade, with inspections, visiting dignitairies and the whole shebang. Then there are other parades such as change of OC or whatnot. There was a PDev thrown in in the theatre and may be repeated this year. I sort of miss the days where we would meet up at the shacks for many many drinks prior to being formed up by the senior MCpl and marched off to the drill hall. The dinners were good, the music (provided by unit bands) and good times were all fun. I don't know what we could call this event anymore but it certainly isn't the men's/soldier's Christmas dinner. Still I am looking forward to it this year, once the shenanigans are over with.

 

[armyvern]

NFld Sapper,

There are many "Dinner" functions in the CF; Mess Dinners, Mixed Dining In, Candlelight Dinners, Mens Christmas Dinners, amongst others.

What you have described below certainly seems like a Mixed Dining In to me, but it does not resemble a Men's Christmas Dinner.

My .02 worth. Let the Units do what they wish, but call your function by it's proper name/title. And for those who choose to have a mixed dining in, or a candlelight, please do not use this other function as a means to skip the Men's Christmas Dinner that your troops deserve.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So while everyone is at the 'Soldier's Holiday Repast' having a good old fashioned PC

, I'll be at the Men's Christmas Dinner eating turkey and  :cheers: