Mendicino's call for RCMP to ban neck restraint not backed up by evidence: external panel

[brihard]

Funny how, us being unarmed/unweaponed, getting an offender to the ground was job 1.

Yup, very different settings; very different things make sense. I don’t envy you guys your job at all.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yup, very different settings; very different things make sense. I don’t envy you guys your job at all.

Yup. Two jobs I would never do are corrections and teaching.

 

[KevinB]

Yup. Two jobs I would never do are corrections and teaching.

Well I’d consider teaching…

 

[Halifax Tar]

Well I’d consider teaching…

Not in a million years. Shitty kids, with shitty parents and a system that is the more geared toward social engineering than education.

 

[FSTO]

Putting this here. I'm sure this transition will go smoothly.

Sources say Justin Trudeau wants to transform the RCMP. Will he turn the Mounties into Canada’s version of FBI agents? | National Newswatch

National Newswatch: Canada's most comprehensive site for political news and views. Make it a daily habit.

www.nationalnewswatch.com

 

[KevinB]

Not in a million years. Shitty kids, with shitty parents and a system that is the more geared toward social engineering than education.

I meant down here. I’m in a county that is fairly conservative…
In fact sometimes even too conservative for me (shocking yes, but I’m not a book banner - and some of the Principals here are)

 

[brihard]

Putting this here. I'm sure this transition will go smoothly.

Sources say Justin Trudeau wants to transform the RCMP. Will he turn the Mounties into Canada’s version of FBI agents? | National Newswatch

National Newswatch: Canada's most comprehensive site for political news and views. Make it a daily habit.

www.nationalnewswatch.com

To the best of my ability to understand it, that transition would, in practice, largely be the gradual withdrawal of the RCMP from contract policing. That would probably be gradual and incremental. The edges are already being nibbled in Surrey and Grand Prairie. It wouldn’t surprise me to see more of Alberta move in that direction.

There’s a growing divide between RCMP contract and federal policing already. The Mounties have been poaching from municipal services hard this year, with a lot of former municipal cops going directly into federal investigations or protective policing roles. A friend of mine in recruiting for a major municipal service was lamenting how many they’re losing to the RCMP- not a hard sell to entice experienced officers burnt out on the road to slide permanently into federal investigations.

What would/will be a big tell would be if we hear of the RCMP. Establishing a separate and distinct recruiting intake and training stream for federal police. Right now a Mountie goes to their diet in Regina regardless of if they’re gonna go police Surrey or Iqaluit, or to a federal national security section, or protecting the Prime Minister (and I know of new RCMP members going to all of these things off the street in the pst year). If they’re going to convert to federal only, expect to see a hiring stream that doesn’t go through the same depot curriculum as new recruits going to contract policing.

 

[dapaterson]

"Mountie goes to their diet in Regina" is an autocorrect gem.

 

[brihard]

"Mountie goes to their diet in Regina" is an autocorrect gem.

Ok, that’s funny.

 

[mariomike]

Funny how, us being unarmed/unweaponed, getting an offender to the ground was job 1.

Moon-lighted part-time as a C.O. at The Don. They took us into a room to train and practice with batons on a heavy punching bag. Never had to use one on a man.

Paramedics are fequently sent on EDP calls.

paramedics are training to place people experiencing mental health emergencies on involuntary psychiatric hospitalization holds.

SF paramedics undergoing new training to initiate psychiatric holds

From 2021 to 2022, there were almost 14,000 holds at six of San Francisco's largest hospitals.

www.sfexaminer.com

Used the Straitjacket ( that is how it is spelled, I think ) and soft ( fleece-lined leather ) restraints plenty of times on the job.

The "psycho-sandwich" ( using a couple of backboards ) is now considered old-fashioned.

Deadly restraint: Internal records reveal what officers, paramedics did and why

Action News has unearthed new records from the investigation into how a Fresno man died while restrained by law enforcement.

abc30.com

"Chemical restraint" seems a more popular choice now.

"Guess who gets ketamine?" - Paramedic

Colorado Springs family suing for death after paramedic 'improperly injected ketamine'

A live TV news station covering breaking news and traffic for Colorado Springs, Pueblo, and Southern Colorado with a strong investigative team

krdo.com

A Colorado grand jury has indicted five police officers & paramedics involved in the August 2019 death of Elijah McClain, a 23-year-old Black man who was stopped by police while walking home from a store, put in a carotid hold & then injected with ketamine

Use of ketamine questioned​

Paramedics are allowed to use ketamine to treat a syndrome known as excited delirium. When the EMS arrived on the scene of the encounter, McClain was already cuffed and restrained on the ground. One of the officers can be heard telling the EMS that McClain was "acting crazy", that he was "definitely on something", and that he had attacked them with "incredible, crazy strength" when they tried to restrain him.[25] The paramedics administered an injection of 500 mg (one full 5ml syringe) of ketamine, later reporting to have estimated his weight at 220lbs (100kg), a weight for which 500mg is an appropriate dose. According to information provided to NBC by Aurora Fire Rescue, the standard dose of ketamine is 5 milligrams per each kilogram of a person's weight. The coroner's report states that McClain was 5 feet 6 inches (1.68 m) tall and weighed 140 pounds (64 kg). That would mean that the correct dosage for a person of McClain's size would have been 320 milligrams.[45]

The attorney for McClain's family, Mari Newman, said that medics had no right or reason to inject Elijah with ketamine and has asked for an investigation. Neuroscientist Carl Hart, chair of Columbia University's psychology department, commented, "Why anyone would be giving ketamine in that circumstance is beyond me." The American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the World Health Organization do not recognize the condition. Paul Appelbaum, who oversees changes to psychiatry's main diagnostic manual, has commented, "excited delirium is bad science, based on faulty studies that grew out of the 1980s cocaine epidemic."[46] Carl Takei, a senior staff attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union who focuses on police practices, said "ascribing a person's actions to excited delirium can create a shield for officers who use excessive force".[45]

Family got $15 million USD from city taxpayers.

 

[RedFive]

What would/will be a big tell would be if we hear of the RCMP. Establishing a separate and distinct recruiting intake and training stream for federal police.

Say goodbye to GD hiring if that's the case, there's so many members who endure the slog of GD and contract positions to get a shot at that higher level investigating and specialty work...

Oh I can skip having to deal with mental health crisis and the public and their problems and a dose of spicy nostalgia for myself at all the horrors of the world, to move straight into flying a desk at a comfy office for the same pay? Where do I sign?

There's already rumblings of frustration from members I know that select spots in select jobs and postings across Canada are being soaked up by people who never went to Depot and didn't do their time on the Force, their previous experience be damned.

 

[brihard]

Say goodbye to GD hiring if that's the case, there's so many members who endure the slog of GD and contract positions to get a shot at that higher level investigating and specialty work...

Oh I can skip having to deal with mental health crisis and the public and their problems and a dose of spicy nostalgia for myself at all the horrors of the world, to move straight into flying a desk at a comfy office for the same pay? Where do I sign?

There's already rumblings of frustration from members I know that select spots in select jobs and postings across Canada are being soaked up by people who never went to Depot and didn't do their time on the Force, their previous experience be damned.

Yes and no. On the one hand, hiring for the whole profession on the first response/‘general duty’ side sucks anyway. On the other hand, a lot of people join policing, at least initially, to hit the road and do front line stuff.

I don’t see that this would n cessation close the door to Mounties working general duty sliding over to federal. I could see some thing happening:

• People applying off the street would be steering themselves more specifically towards a business line
• Federal would probably competitive in ways distinct from other business lines
• Someone applying to lateral from contract to federal would hopefully still bring a lot to the table
• Federal policing will always need a mix of technical skills and training, and boots on the ground investigative experience.

I can definitely see why some members already on the road would be unhappy. But if they’re competitive they should have a good shot anyway. And I f someone with six or seven years in GD isn’t competitive with someone coming off the street (if we set aside the issue of provincial RCMP divisions not letting members go), then they need to ask themselves what they don’t bring that they need to develop. Doing eight years in the army and then five years policing up north may make you one of hundreds of dudes with eight years in the army and five years up north. But if investigative units are looking for skill sets like finance/accounting, strong computer skills or cybersecurity, language skills in languages relevant to national security or major organized crime investigations- the people with those skills may bring something different. I suspect federal policing will need a solid mix of both.

Could this hurt recruiting for contract policing? Maybe. But I bet if they fixed security clearance processing it would more than offset that. And if the RCMP quietly intends to move away from contract policing anyway, they may see this not as a big but as a future.

My best guess? In the next two years we’ll see a few tells. Watch Surrey, Grand Prairie, Alberta Provincial Police discourse, and any signs of federal policing hiving off.

 

[lenaitch]

Any transition to provincial policing will likely be a lot easier in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan than in other provinces. A move to federal policing would still have a uniformed component unless they can somehow figure out how to download that to the territories as well.

A lot of the specialized skills required in today's type of major crime investigation can be satisfied by civilians, some with a special constable status if required.

I worked with a retired O-Division Mountie who said he was hired specifically for his Italian heritage and language. He was originally an S-rank (if I recall the term correctly) which I understand was fairly common back in the day in certain specialized areas. When they eliminated the designation he simply transitioned over to a regular member. I understand they did that with all or most of the airport special constables, as well as aviation pilots (the RCMP seemed to bounce between civilian and uniformed pilots for a while).

 

[RedFive]

I should clarify my comment about the members being frustrated is over the experienced police officer hiring program, every one of those newly hired members get their choice of post, or specialty depending on their previous history.

And while I know its not as simple as "I want that job so it should be mine", the list of members I know who have been refused release from their Detachment for those same jobs after being the selected candidate is a non-0 number. And now those positions are being filled by new hire Mounties who used to work for those units. An RCMP spot is gone, another Muni spot opens up. CFSEU-BC, LMD ERT, FSOC, you name it.

 

[OldSolduer]

Can we talk about what is really important? Will you Mounties continue the tradition of the Red Serge uniform or has some "activist" designed you a new one?

Guys.....I am joking. No fleece toques ok?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Guys.....I am joking. No fleece toques ok?

But can I wear a touque without gloves, and vice versa ?

 

[OldSolduer]

But can I wear a touque without gloves, and vice versa ?

In your case yes.

 

[RedFive]

Can we talk about what is really important? Will you Mounties continue the tradition of the Red Serge uniform or has some "activist" designed you a new one?

Guys.....I am joking. No fleece toques ok?

The issued toque is actually a running joke in the force, it took years to roll out, required multiple surveys and yet is somehow universally reviled from coast to coast and even up north where they claimed it was designed for. It looks like a deflated jellyfish on your head.

There's a couple tactical stores in the Lower Mainland area that will sell you a normal toque for a nominal fee.

 

[RedFive]

And another thread, devolved into dress and deportment. We're right on schedule, gents.

 

[QV]

Not too long ago in another thread we talked about the RCMP moving away from contract policing... there were a lot of varying opinions on that.

Transition to Municipal Police Force

Yeah and also- we re done with regimental identities too. That’s nonsense- one army. Simpler and shouldn’t causes any issues. The reserves and various units will understand the benefits and cooperate. I like you lol

army.ca