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Media Bias [Merged]

Good2Golf

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QV said:
It doesn't matter who the leader opposite the LPC is.  The media will find a way to demonize him/her.

Disagree. Some past Conservative leaders who would qualify again for future leadership (MacKay and Ambrose) who are quite capable of deftly dealing with the media in a way that falls completely outside of Scheer’s capabilities.

:2c:

Regards,
G2G
 

Altair

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QV said:
It doesn't matter who the leader opposite the LPC is.  The media will find a way to demonize him/her.
Do newspapers count as media?
 

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Good2Golf

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Altair said:
Do newspapers count as media?

Aside from a lack of source reference, Altair, you can’t expect people to take that graphic seriously when CBC News is listed as having no bias since time immemorial...NONE...really?

Regards
G2G
 

Remius

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Good2Golf said:
Aside from a lack of source reference, Altair, you can’t expect people to take that graphic seriously when CBC News is listed as having no bias since time immemorial...NONE...really?

Regards
G2G

That's a list of endorsements.  Not bias meter.  It's when a news outlet comes out and endorses a candidate or party.  The Ottawa Citizen came out in favour of the conservatives and endorsed Scheer.  The CBC has not actually endorsed anyone despite it's left leanings. 

One can endorse and not be biased and one can be biased and not endorse.

that chart shows endorsements not bias. 

 

Altair

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Remius said:
That's a list of endorsements.  Not bias meter.  It's when a news outlet comes out and endorses a candidate or party.  The Ottawa Citizen came out in favour of the conservatives and endorsed Scheer.  The CBC has not actually endorsed anyone despite it's left leanings. 

One can endorse and not be biased and one can be biased and not endorse.

that chart shows endorsements not bias.
I think that's a stretch.

I will agree with this though.
 

QV

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Good2Golf said:
Disagree. Some past Conservative leaders who would qualify again for future leadership (MacKay and Ambrose) who are quite capable of deftly dealing with the media in a way that falls completely outside of Scheer’s capabilities.

:2c:

Regards,
G2G

I disagree.  Once example: Scheer addressed the abortion topic, that he personally disagrees but would not open it for debate just as the former CPC majority did not when it was in government.  The media kept it alive to smear him.  It doesn't matter how Scheer addressed this or how many times he answered, or that this hasn't been an issue even during Harper... The media kept bringing it up as though Scheer was going to immediately outlaw abortion once in power.  So long as the LPC continues to pump hundreds of millions into the media, and the CPC states they won't, there will be tainted reporting.
 
       

 

Humphrey Bogart

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Altair said:
Do newspapers count as media?

The graphic you've attached to your post is the literal definition of Fake News.

Because it selectively chooses which newspapers it has displayed.  Most of the media sources listed in the graphic are owned by Postmedia Group which is known to have right of centre leanings.  The Sun Papers for instance are all the same paper, they use the same reporters, etc.  They just change the name for every City they are printed in.

It of course throws in a few random Left of centre media sources to give it the appearance of legitimacy but then curiously includes CBC which isn't even a newspaper.  :dunno:

This brings me to my next point:

IAW Milnet.ca Conduct Guidelines, If you are going to post something in one of the many politics threads on this forum and try and pass it on as factual information, you will from here on out include the source where you found the article, picture, infographic, etc.  It must also be factual information and not a random meme created on Facebook (where the aforementioned attachment is from) and passed along as real news.  :tsktsk:

If you want to do that, there are plenty of other venues and forums where you can do so.  We expect more @ Milnet.ca

Consider this your first and only warning.

Milnet Staff

 

brihard

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Humphrey Bogart said:
The graphic you've attached to your post is the literal definition of Fake News.

Because it selectively chooses which newspapers it has displayed.  Most of the media sources listed in the graphic are owned by Postmedia Group which is known to have right of centre leanings.  The Sun Papers for instance are all the same paper, they use the same reporters, etc.  They just change the name for every City they are printed in.

It of course throws in a few random Left of centre media sources to give it the appearance of legitimacy but then curiously includes CBC which isn't even a newspaper.  :dunno:

This brings me to my next point:

IAW Milnet.ca Conduct Guidelines, If you are going to post something in one of the many politics threads on this forum and try and pass it on as factual information, you will from here on out include the source where you found the article, picture, infographic, etc.  It must also be factual information and not a random meme created on Facebook (where the aforementioned attachment is from) and passed along as real news.  :tsktsk:

If you want to do that, there are plenty of other venues and forums where you can do so.  We expect more @ Milnet.ca

Consider this your first and only warning.

Milnet Staff

"Staff" me if you wish, but I respectfully take several issues with this. I like to think that I'm pretty fair minded most of the time, so I hope you hear me out and give this reasonable consideration.

1. You are decrying it as fake news, but I don't see it purporting to represent anything other than what it says. I don't see you contesting that any of the endorsements claimed on the graphic are inaccurate, false, or misleading in any way. I do not see it purporting to not be selective (but even at that it pretty much isn't- see below). I only see it purporting to name specific media outlets, and their endorsements for the last four elections. You are essentially attacking him for something that would fall under the umbrella of dishonesty, but I don't see anything whatsoever contesting that the specific information presented is factually inaccurate, never mind dishonest or deceptive.

2. I found a list of newspaper endorsements in the 2015 election. All of the top 10 newspapers by circulation that made an endorsement are reflected. All but one  of the top 20 (Waterloo regional Record, average circulation at the time of 53,000 daily) which made an endorsement are reflected. It's not Altair's fault that Postmedia has such a dominating role in our print media, nor that Quebecor appears not to have endorsed anyone.

3. I checked. 15 of the 27 media outlets listed are Postmedia. Yes, a narrow majority, but hardly overwhelming. Any major Postmedia competitor that made an endorsement seems to be represented there; you have to go down to pretty modest circulation to find something that's not. I frequently see the Globe and Mail described as 'left wing' despite their CPC endorsement. Are the Toronto Star and La Presse 'a few random left of centre' newspapers, or are they merely major media outlets that legitimately merited being on the list? 'Toronto Now' I'll give you, but just about everything else on that list deserves to be there, and you aren't going to find that much was left out. You're staking about as close to the 'source your claim' line as you could without running afoul of the standards you're saying ought to apply to him. I would go so far as to suggest that what you said was rendered inaccurate by the strength with which you said it, and which facts don't really support to that extent.

4. It may be a 'random meme', but it looks to be factual. I see worse get posted here without challenge or without a staff-hammer.

Wiki - Canadian newspapers by circulation
Wiki - Canadian newspaper endorsements in 2015 election

5. The rules for the politics forum say he gets three warnings, not 'one and only'. Hand me one while you're at it if you must, but alternatively I'm going to suggest - as former staff on this site myself and with full respect for the pain in the arse that it can be - that you may have jumped a bit too early and hard on him on this one. I would also respectfully suggest you take this to the staff's forum (I'm certain there must still be one) and take part of a day to bat it around amongst yourselves a bit before coming back on him or on me for this.

While I'm not in full agreement with him - I believe there is more left wing bias in our media than he seems to- he is engaging reasonably and fairly, using the material our media industry gives him to work with, and I see nothing he's said or done here that's at all beyond what is generally accepted on this site. I'm bloody sure that coming out swinging at him and dismissing his post as 'fake news' when in the most literal sense it isn't, wasn't called for, and that we the membership can and should expect a bit better than that.

FWIW, when I was staff here I made calls at times that others could or should have challenged me on. I didn't always find it easy to separate my own personal views on a subject from actions I felt it necessary or appropriate to take. I also have the luxury of no longer being staff here and not having to preside over the page during and in the wake of this utter gong show of an election.
 

Altair

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Humphrey Bogart said:
The graphic you've attached to your post is the literal definition of Fake News.

Because it selectively chooses which newspapers it has displayed.  Most of the media sources listed in the graphic are owned by Postmedia Group which is known to have right of centre leanings.  The Sun Papers for instance are all the same paper, they use the same reporters, etc.  They just change the name for every City they are printed in.

It of course throws in a few random Left of centre media sources to give it the appearance of legitimacy but then curiously includes CBC which isn't even a newspaper.  :dunno:

This brings me to my next point:

IAW Milnet.ca Conduct Guidelines, If you are going to post something in one of the many politics threads on this forum and try and pass it on as factual information, you will from here on out include the source where you found the article, picture, infographic, etc.  It must also be factual information and not a random meme created on Facebook (where the aforementioned attachment is from) and passed along as real news.  :tsktsk:

If you want to do that, there are plenty of other venues and forums where you can do so.  We expect more @ Milnet.ca

Consider this your first and only warning.

Milnet Staff
Sure.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-most-popular-daily-newspapers-in-canada.html


Rank    Paper Name              Region      Readership
1 The Globe and Mail   National 323,133
2 Toronto Star         Toronto 308,881
3 La Presse              Montreal 279,731
4 Le Journal de Montréal  Montreal 231,069
5 24 Hours Toronto   Toronto 213,143
6 Metro Toronto         Toronto 204,840
7 National Post         National 186,343
8 Journal Metro         Montreal 172,002
9 Le Journal de Québec Quebec City 150,248
10 Montreal 24 heures Montreal 150,239
11 The Vancouver Sun Vancouver 133,329
12 The Toronto Sun Toronto 119,048
13 Metro Vancouver Vancouver 113,500
14 The Spectator         Hamilton 113,052
15 The Province         Vancouver 112,115
16 24 Hours Vancouver Vancouver 111,479
17 Calgary Herald         Calgary 107,954
18 Winnipeg Free Press Winnipeg 101,229
19 Ottawa Citizen       Ottawa/Gatineau 93,277
20 The Edmonton Journal  Edmonton 91,776



1.Globe and Mail

2015- Conservative
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/the-tories-deserve-another-mandate-stephen-harper-doesnt/article26842506/

2011- Conservative
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/the-globes-election-endorsement-facing-up-to-our-challenges/article585060/

2008-Conservative
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-is-growing-into-the-job/article1063218/?page=all

2006-Conservative
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/2006-globe-endorses-tories/article1063061/

2. Toronto Star

2019-Liberals
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2019/10/16/liberals-are-the-best-choice-for-canada.html

2015-Liberals
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2015/10/09/for-justin-trudeau-and-the-liberal-party-editorial.html

2011-NDP
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2011/04/30/toronto_star_endorses_the_ndp.html

2008-Liberals
https://www.thestar.com/news/politics/federalelection/2008/10/11/stars_choice_dion_liberals.html

3. La Presse

2015-Liberal
http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/editoriaux/201510/06/01-4907240-pour-un-gouvernement-trudeau.php

2011-Multiple
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/place-publique/editorialistes/andre-pratte/201104/28/01-4394343-pour-un-quebec-fort-a-ottawa.php

2008-Nobody
https://www.cbc.ca/news2/canada/politicalbytes/2008/10/whom-to-endorse.html

2006-Conservatives
https://www.cbc.ca/news2/canada/politicalbytes/2008/10/whom-to-endorse.html

4. Le Journal de Montréal

2015-2006 none

5. 24 Hours Toronto

2006-2015-none

6. Metro Toronto

2006-2015- none

7. National Post

2015-Conservatives
https://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/andrew-coyne-resigns-editor-national-post-1.3278149

2011-Conservatives
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/04/28/editorial-board-election-endorsement-conservatives-a-clear-choice-in-uncertain-times/

2008-Conservatives
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/10/08/national-post-editorial-board-a-conservative-majority-serves-canada-s-needs.aspx

2006-Conservatives
https://web.archive.org/web/20070311074024/http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=a13e65ab-0055-41e4-83e7-27e78d4be2a4

8. Journal Metro

2006-2015 None

9. Le Journal de Québec

2006-2015 None

10.Montreal 24 heures

2006-2015-None

11.The Vancouver Sun

2015-Conservatives
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial+conservatives+best+choice+manage+economy/11441448/story.html?__lsa=eb9a-89f5

2011-Conservatives
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/editorials/EDITORIAL+Conservative+majority+needed+through+turbulent+times/4701393/story.html

2008-Conservatives
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=8b900721-0cb2-428a-aaaa-18bd722f5a3d

2006-Conservatives
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=a13e65ab-0055-41e4-83e7-27e78d4be2a4

12.The Toronto Sun 

2015-Conservatives
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/09/harper-clear-choice-on-the-economy

2011-Conservatives
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/30/sun-backs-stephen-harper

2008-Conservatives
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/editorial/

13.Metro Vancouver

2006-2015-none

14. The Hamilton Spectator

2015-Liberals
http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/5960056-the-spectator-s-view-time-for-a-change-in-how-canada-is-governed/

2011-Conservatives
https://twitter.com/terryvanderson/status/64292094826651648
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_endorsements_in_the_2011_Canadian_federal_election

2008-none

2006-Conservatives
https://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/2178685-political-endorsements-always-a-no-win/


More to follow...
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Brihard said:
"Staff" me if you wish, but I respectfully take several issues with this. I like to think that I'm pretty fair minded most of the time, so I hope you hear me out and give this reasonable consideration.

1. You are decrying it as fake news, but I don't see it purporting to represent anything other than what it says. I don't see you contesting that any of the endorsements claimed on the graphic are inaccurate, false, or misleading in any way. I do not see it purporting to not be selective (but even at that it pretty much isn't- see below). I only see it purporting to name specific media outlets, and their endorsements for the last four elections. You are essentially attacking him for something that would fall under the umbrella of dishonesty, but I don't see anything whatsoever contesting that the specific information presented is factually inaccurate, never mind dishonest or deceptive.

2. I found a list of newspaper endorsements in the 2015 election. All of the top 10 newspapers by circulation that made an endorsement are reflected. All but one  of the top 20 (Waterloo regional Record, average circulation at the time of 53,000 daily) which made an endorsement are reflected. It's not Altair's fault that Postmedia has such a dominating role in our print media, nor that Quebecor appears not to have endorsed anyone.

3. I checked. 15 of the 27 media outlets listed are Postmedia. Yes, a narrow majority, but hardly overwhelming. Any major Postmedia competitor that made an endorsement seems to be represented there; you have to go down to pretty modest circulation to find something that's not. I frequently see the Globe and Mail described as 'left wing' despite their CPC endorsement. Are the Toronto Star and La Presse 'a few random left of centre' newspapers, or are they merely major media outlets that legitimately merited being on the list? 'Toronto Now' I'll give you, but just about everything else on that list deserves to be there, and you aren't going to find that much was left out. You're staking about as close to the 'source your claim' line as you could without running afoul of the standards you're saying ought to apply to him. I would go so far as to suggest that what you said was rendered inaccurate by the strength with which you said it, and which facts don't really support to that extent.

4. It may be a 'random meme', but it looks to be factual. I see worse get posted here without challenge or without a staff-hammer.

Wiki - Canadian newspapers by circulation
Wiki - Canadian newspaper endorsements in 2015 election

5. The rules for the politics forum say he gets three warnings, not 'one and only'. Hand me one while you're at it if you must, but alternatively I'm going to suggest - as former staff on this site myself and with full respect for the pain in the arse that it can be - that you may have jumped a bit too early and hard on him on this one. I would also respectfully suggest you take this to the staff's forum (I'm certain there must still be one) and take part of a day to bat it around amongst yourselves a bit before coming back on him or on me for this.

While I'm not in full agreement with him - I believe there is more left wing bias in our media than he seems to- he is engaging reasonably and fairly, using the material our media industry gives him to work with, and I see nothing he's said or done here that's at all beyond what is generally accepted on this site. I'm bloody sure that coming out swinging at him and dismissing his post as 'fake news' when in the most literal sense it isn't, wasn't called for, and that we the membership can and should expect a bit better than that.

FWIW, when I was staff here I made calls at times that others could or should have challenged me on. I didn't always find it easy to separate my own personal views on a subject from actions I felt it necessary or appropriate to take. I also have the luxury of no longer being staff here and not having to preside over the page during and in the wake of this utter gong show of an election.

I don't often weigh in on political threads on this site because:

A.  I don't really care for politics or politicians;
B.  Politics threads are full of opinion, feelings and conjecture and are usually echo chambers; and
C.  It has very little to do with the profession of arms which I view as the primary purpose of this forum.

I will stand by my decision to inject some moderation in to Altair's post in this instance and I will do so very publicly.

1.  This is a meme from Facebook (I know this because I've seen it shared on that platform) and the member did not source where he took it from. - This can be fixed

2.  I am not disputing that some of the information isn't correct on the table, some if it is correct but that's not what makes it Fake News. What makes it Fake News is it selectively hand picks certain media sources to paint a narrative (it doesn't even cite where it gets the information from).   

It is even missing one of the top five and top ten largest circulated Newspapers in Canada:  Le Journal de Montreal and Le Journal de Quebec which btw, when you add those two Quebecor owned papers to the G&M + Toronto Star circulation, it's larger than the entire Post Media Empire.

Oh and lets not forget that there are zero Newspapers from Atlantic Canada despite the Chronicle Herald being the largest circulated newspaper in that region of the country.  What about the Times-Colonist in Victoria?  I guess that doesn't count then but the Windsor Star makes the cut?

It then curiously decides to add a television and radio company to the list for reasons unknown?  If you are going to add the CBC?  Why not Global, CTV, etc?  Why stop there?  Why not include online media as well?

Overall, it's a pretty useless infographic and it isn't even clever.  If you are going to include a bunch of newspapers from the second largest city in Canada, you should probably include the one with a larger the circulation than the combined totals of the other three you did include.

Btw, the Original caption of this particular Infographic on Facebook was: 

"Conservatives love to whine about 'leftist media bias'  but when confronted with real proof of corporate media bias, they justify it any way the can"

The one posted is not even the entire photo, parts of it have been snipped off (probably using snipit tool) for reasons I'll leave to your imagination.  :whistle:

Something something "Corporate media owned by billionaires" something something "Use the media" something something "protect interests by backing right wing politicians"


So no Brihard, I respectfully disagree with your assessment and am doubling down on this one.  Btw, the member has already been cautioned before but never so publicly. 

Milnet Staff
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Altair said:
Sure.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-most-popular-daily-newspapers-in-canada.html


Rank    Paper Name              Region      Readership
1 The Globe and Mail   National 323,133
2 Toronto Star         Toronto 308,881
3 La Presse              Montreal 279,731
4 Le Journal de Montréal  Montreal 231,069
5 24 Hours Toronto   Toronto 213,143
6 Metro Toronto         Toronto 204,840
7 National Post         National 186,343
8 Journal Metro         Montreal 172,002
9 Le Journal de Québec Quebec City 150,248
10 Montreal 24 heures Montreal 150,239
11 The Vancouver Sun Vancouver 133,329
12 The Toronto Sun Toronto 119,048
13 Metro Vancouver Vancouver 113,500
14 The Spectator         Hamilton 113,052
15 The Province         Vancouver 112,115
16 24 Hours Vancouver Vancouver 111,479
17 Calgary Herald         Calgary 107,954
18 Winnipeg Free Press Winnipeg 101,229
19 Ottawa Citizen       Ottawa/Gatineau 93,277
20 The Edmonton Journal  Edmonton 91,776



1.Globe and Mail

2015- Conservative
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/the-tories-deserve-another-mandate-stephen-harper-doesnt/article26842506/

2011- Conservative
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/the-globes-election-endorsement-facing-up-to-our-challenges/article585060/

2008-Conservative
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-is-growing-into-the-job/article1063218/?page=all

2006-Conservative
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/2006-globe-endorses-tories/article1063061/

2. Toronto Star

2019-Liberals
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2019/10/16/liberals-are-the-best-choice-for-canada.html

2015-Liberals
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2015/10/09/for-justin-trudeau-and-the-liberal-party-editorial.html

2011-NDP
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2011/04/30/toronto_star_endorses_the_ndp.html

2008-Liberals
https://www.thestar.com/news/politics/federalelection/2008/10/11/stars_choice_dion_liberals.html

3. La Presse

2015-Liberal
http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/editoriaux/201510/06/01-4907240-pour-un-gouvernement-trudeau.php

2011-Multiple
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/place-publique/editorialistes/andre-pratte/201104/28/01-4394343-pour-un-quebec-fort-a-ottawa.php

2008-Nobody
https://www.cbc.ca/news2/canada/politicalbytes/2008/10/whom-to-endorse.html

2006-Conservatives
https://www.cbc.ca/news2/canada/politicalbytes/2008/10/whom-to-endorse.html

4. Le Journal de Montréal

2015-2006 none

5. 24 Hours Toronto

2006-2015-none

6. Metro Toronto

2006-2015- none

7. National Post

2015-Conservatives
https://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/andrew-coyne-resigns-editor-national-post-1.3278149

2011-Conservatives
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/04/28/editorial-board-election-endorsement-conservatives-a-clear-choice-in-uncertain-times/

2008-Conservatives
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/10/08/national-post-editorial-board-a-conservative-majority-serves-canada-s-needs.aspx

2006-Conservatives
https://web.archive.org/web/20070311074024/http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=a13e65ab-0055-41e4-83e7-27e78d4be2a4

8. Journal Metro

2006-2015 None

9. Le Journal de Québec

2006-2015 None

10.Montreal 24 heures

2006-2015-None

11.The Vancouver Sun

2015-Conservatives
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial+conservatives+best+choice+manage+economy/11441448/story.html?__lsa=eb9a-89f5

2011-Conservatives
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/editorials/EDITORIAL+Conservative+majority+needed+through+turbulent+times/4701393/story.html

2008-Conservatives
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=8b900721-0cb2-428a-aaaa-18bd722f5a3d

2006-Conservatives
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=a13e65ab-0055-41e4-83e7-27e78d4be2a4

12.The Toronto Sun 

2015-Conservatives
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/09/harper-clear-choice-on-the-economy

2011-Conservatives
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/30/sun-backs-stephen-harper

2008-Conservatives
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/editorial/

13.Metro Vancouver

2006-2015-none

14. The Hamilton Spectator

2015-Liberals
http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/5960056-the-spectator-s-view-time-for-a-change-in-how-canada-is-governed/

2011-Conservatives
https://twitter.com/terryvanderson/status/64292094826651648
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_endorsements_in_the_2011_Canadian_federal_election

2008-none



More to follow...

Much better Altair  8)

I think the infographic you posted does bring up one important point.  It shows how statistics can be manipulated to really suit any narrative you want. 

A more useful graphic would be a comparison of circulation numbers of newspapers and their respective endorsements.  I think that statistic would show that the media in this country is remarkably evenly split.  Everyone knows that Postmedia is Conservative, likewise everyone is aware that the Toronto Star is Liberal and all the papers they own are as well. 
 

brihard

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Humphrey Bogart said:
I don't often weigh in on political threads on this site because:

A.  I don't really care for politics or politicians;
B.  Politics threads are full of opinion, feelings and conjecture and are usually echo chambers; and
C.  It has very little to do with the profession of arms which I view as the primary purpose of this forum.

I will stand by my decision to inject some moderation in to Altair's post in this instance and I will do so very publicly.

1.  This is a meme from Facebook (I know this because I've seen it shared on that platform) and the member did not source where he took it from. - This can be fixed

2.  I am not disputing that some of the information isn't correct on the table, some if it is correct but that's not what makes it Fake News. What makes it Fake News is it selectively hand picks certain media sources to paint a narrative (it doesn't even cite where it gets the information from).   

It is even missing one of the top five and top ten largest circulated Newspapers in Canada:  Le Journal de Montreal and Le Journal de Quebec which btw, when you add those two Quebecor owned papers to the G&M + Toronto Star circulation, it's larger than the entire Post Media Empire.

Oh and lets not forget that there are zero Newspapers from Atlantic Canada despite the Chronicle Herald being the largest circulated newspaper in that region of the country.  What about the Times-Colonist in Victoria?  I guess that doesn't count then but the Windsor Star makes the cut?

It then curiously decides to add a television and radio company to the list for reasons unknown?  If you are going to add the CBC?  Why not Global, CTV, etc?  Why stop there?  Why not include online media as well?

Overall, it's a pretty useless infographic and it isn't even clever.  If you are going to include a bunch of newspapers from the second largest city in Canada, you should probably include the one with a larger the circulation than the combined totals of the other three you did include.

Btw, the Original caption of this particular Infographic on Facebook was: 

"Conservatives love to whine about 'leftist media bias'  but when confronted with real proof of corporate media bias, they justify it any way the can"

The one posted is not even the entire photo, parts of it have been snipped off (probably using snipit tool) for reasons I'll leave to your imagination.  :whistle:

Something something "Corporate media owned by billionaires" something something "Use the media" something something "protect interests by backing right wing politicians"


So no Brihard, I respectfully disagree with your assessment and am doubling down on this one.  Btw, the member has already been cautioned before but never so publicly. 

Milnet Staff

Quebecor, the Chronicle Herald, not the Times Colonist appears to have made endorsements. It looks like a major pet of the underlying foundation of your objection to his post was flawed... He can’t omit (or permit to be omitted) info that doesn’t exist.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Brihard said:
Quebecor, the Chronicle Herald, not the Times Colonist appears to have made endorsements. It looks like a major pet of the underlying foundation of your objection to his post was flawed... He can’t omit (or permit to be omitted) info that doesn’t exist.

The underlying premise of my objection was the member posting an infographic and passing it off as complete information.  It is rather incomplete though isn't it?

If making "No Endorsement" is irrelevant, why is the CBC (which I SAY AGAIN isn't even a newspaper) included in an infographic with a bunch of Postmedia & Other newspapers?

Further, the member did not cite the source of the information he posted (i.e. where he found it from) and also it was edited further from the original source which I will share with you:



Source:
https://www.facebook.com/wearenorth99/photos/a.1920329484847705/2366280403585942/?type=3&theater

If you are going to make inferences that Canadian Media is overwhelmingly conservative, you need to back that up with verifiable facts and you shouldn't negate to include information simply because it doesn't validate your own hypothesis.

I don't dispute at all that Postmedia isn't a Conservative Newspaper Company.  They bleed blue more than any other media company in Canada but they are only one media company.  You can't include all of their newspapers and then fail to report on other Major Newspapers, some of which are of the largest circulated in Canada.

I also don't mind being challenged and I think that is very healthy, which is why I am replying to you.  8)

EDIT:

To add to the above:

If we are going to accept the above as acceptable material for this forum, then why not extend that to Infowars, etc?  Yah, thought not...

:nod:
 

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Humphrey Bogart said:
... A more useful graphic would be a comparison of circulation numbers of newspapers and their respective endorsements ...
Although from the last election, closer to something like the attached? (source).*  Wikipedia, for all its warts, offers similar breakdowns for 2015 and 2019.

* - Full disclosure:  This publication published a not-tremendous article I wrote in 1988 about how the Reserves could offer scholarships & similar incentives to encourage student enrollment.  I received no money for the submission.
 

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Altair

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Humphrey Bogart said:
The underlying premise of my objection was the member posting an infographic and passing it off as complete information.  It is rather incomplete though isn't it?

If making "No Endorsement" is irrelevant, why is the CBC (which I SAY AGAIN isn't even a newspaper) included in an infographic with a bunch of Postmedia & Other newspapers?

Further, the member did not cite the source of the information he posted (i.e. where he found it from) and also it was edited further from the original source which I will share with you:



Source:
https://www.facebook.com/wearenorth99/photos/a.1920329484847705/2366280403585942/?type=3&theater

If you are going to make inferences that Canadian Media is overwhelmingly conservative, you need to back that up with verifiable facts and you shouldn't negate to include information simply because it doesn't validate your own hypothesis.

I don't dispute at all that Postmedia isn't a Conservative Newspaper Company.  They bleed blue more than any other media company in Canada but they are only one media company.  You can't include all of their newspapers and then fail to report on other Major Newspapers, some of which are of the largest circulated in Canada.

I also don't mind being challenged and I think that is very healthy, which is why I am replying to you.  8)

EDIT:

To add to the above:

If we are going to accept the above as acceptable material for this forum, then why not extend that to Infowars, etc?  Yah, thought not...

:nod:
I didn't get the picture from facebook, I got it from another forum board and it was in the format that I posted here, I didn't edit it at all.

It should be added that thus far, nothing in the photo posted has been incorrect. ( They actually missed a endorsement from the Hamilton Spectator for the CPC)

If you don't agree with the photo not being sourced, that's fine, but to say it's fake news is not exactly true. I will finish the list, but i'm sure most of the rest are going to be blue endorsements given the Calgary Herald, Ottawa Citizen, and The Edmonton Journal are all postmedia.

So political bias of that photo( the full one that I did not share, not even knew about) being as it is, it's also, (thus far) correct.

Which is all to distract from my original question, does newspaper count as media?
 

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Jarnhamar said:
99 North  :Tin-Foil-Hat:
One of a number of new-ish online-only news sites - a handy guide to those left & right (who's behind them, who funds them, etc.) here.
 

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Altair said:
I didn't get the picture from facebook, I got it from another forum board and it was in the format that I posted here, I didn't edit it at all.

It should be added that thus far, nothing in the photo posted has been incorrect. ( They actually missed a endorsement from the Hamilton Spectator for the CPC)

If you don't agree with the photo not being sourced, that's fine, but to say it's fake news is not exactly true. I will finish the list, but i'm sure most of the rest are going to be blue endorsements given the Calgary Herald, Ottawa Citizen, and The Edmonton Journal are all postmedia.

So political bias of that photo( the full one that I did not share, not even knew about) being as it is, it's also, (thus far) correct.

Which is all to distract from my original question, does newspaper count as media?

And I appreciate your efforts to clear that up Altair.  You'll also note that I didn't silence you either and you are still free to post in this thread.

As far as I am concerned, the matter is dealt with.  Feel free to carry on savaging each other.

milnews.ca said:
One of a number of new-ish online-only news sites - a handy guide to those left & right (who's behind them, who funds them, etc.) here.

Yep and like Alex Jones and Infowars, trash of the highest order.

 

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Humphrey Bogart said:
... like Alex Jones and Infowars, trash of the highest order.
I don't know if I'd go quite that far for any single site, but it's interesting to see which sites have which blind spots and which "usual suspect" sources.  #NothingHasEverythingButEverythingHasSomething
 

daftandbarmy

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Altair said:
I didn't get the picture from facebook, I got it from another forum board and it was in the format that I posted here, I didn't edit it at all.

It should be added that thus far, nothing in the photo posted has been incorrect. ( They actually missed a endorsement from the Hamilton Spectator for the CPC)

If you don't agree with the photo not being sourced, that's fine, but to say it's fake news is not exactly true. I will finish the list, but i'm sure most of the rest are going to be blue endorsements given the Calgary Herald, Ottawa Citizen, and The Edmonton Journal are all postmedia.

So political bias of that photo( the full one that I did not share, not even knew about) being as it is, it's also, (thus far) correct.

Which is all to distract from my original question, does newspaper count as media?

According to Pew, in the US anyways, print is the new media dinosaur:

Watching to Reading the News – and Mostly Still Through Television

Three-quarters of Americans who prefer watching the news opt for TV, but since 2016, slightly more watchers name the internet as their platform of choice

Overall, 47% of Americans prefer watching the news rather than reading or listening to it. That is unchanged from 46% in 2016 and outpaces the 34% who prefer to read the news and 19% who prefer to listen to it – both of which also remain on par with 2016 figures.

In addition to exploring the preferred format for news consumption, the study also measured which platform people preferred most for their news: print, television (through local, network or cable channels), the internet (through websites, apps or social media) or radio. Television continues to rank first as the preferred platform. Just over four-in-ten U.S. adults (44%) prefer TV, compared with about a third (34%) who prefer the web, 14% who prefer radio and 7% who prefer print. The only meaningful shifts since 2016 are a small increase in online and decrease in print news consumption.

https://www.journalism.org/2018/12/03/americans-still-prefer-watching-to-reading-the-news-and-mostly-still-through-television/
 
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