LIght bulbs going "metric"

[Michael OLeary]

Wait for the whining from the few countries and half-dozen other people who still use pints, pounds and cubits.

So watt's a lumen? The EU's bright idea to rename light bulbs

By Sean Poulter
Last updated at 1:08 AM on 25th May 2009

Light bulbs will no longer be labelled in watts under new EU rules.

It has decided to replace the energy measurement - named after the 18th century British inventor James Watt - with 'lumens', which identify how much light a bulb gives out.

Under the new labelling system, due to be introduced in September next year, a 60W light bulb will be renamed with its equivalent, 800Lm.

The EU claimed that the rules - which come as Europe phases out traditional light bulbs in favour of energy-saving ones - will enable consumers to make better-informed choices.

But critics of the decision claimed it would merely lead to widespread confusion.

They pointed out that many Britons remain unsure about energy-saving light bulbs because of the difficulties of disposing of them and health concerns.

More at link.

 

[Occam]

There are likely to be some very good technical reasons why changing the descriptor to lumens is a bad idea.

For starters, near every single lamp or fixture out there is rated for a particular wattage, eg.  "Max 75 watts".  That's a limitation due to heat generated by the incandescent bulb.  Since the wattage of CFL bulbs can vary quite a bit depending on the technology used, they're still going to have to include that on the packaging - making the whole switch kind of pointless.

 

[Michael OLeary]

There are likely to be some very good technical reasons why changing the descriptor to lumens is a bad idea.

For starters, near every single lamp or fixture out there is rated for a particular wattage, eg.  "Max 75 watts".  That's a limitation due to heat generated by the incandescent bulb.  Since the wattage of CFL bulbs can vary quite a bit depending on the technology used, they're still going to have to include that on the packaging - making the whole switch kind of pointless.

Except that many people have become accustomed to purchasing incandescent light bulbs of an expected level of brightness by familiarity with the only rating on them - the wattage.  That measure loses its relevance with CFL bulbs.

 

[Occam]

Except that many people have become accustomed to purchasing incandescent light bulbs of an expected level of brightness by familiarity with the only rating on them - the wattage.  That measure loses its relevance with CFL bulbs.

Well, not really.  I have some sprial CFLs of one variety that are 13w, which are rated to give out the same lumens as a 60w incandescent.

I also have some Philips Halogena "Energy Saver" dimmable bulbs which are 40w, rated for the same lumens as a 60w incandescent. 

The comparison between the CFL wattage and the equivalent incandescent wattage is what people understand, so long as it's on the package.

 

[kkwd]

The packages of light bulbs I have include watts and lumens. Watts is energy consumed and lumens is the light output, according to the label anyway.

 

[chrisf]

I was just about to suggest the same, marking them with both lumens and watts... it's very hard to determine power requirements from lumens, and given the variety types of bulbs on the market, vice versa, it's very hard to determine lumens from the wattage now...

Across the same types of light bulbs, more watts means more lights...but comparing different types of bulbs, the watts are meaningless....

 

[Rheostatic]

This has nothing to do with "going metric". The watt and the lumen are both metric units of measure.

 

[Journeyman]

For some people, watts or lumens will remain irrelevant  :nod:

 

[the 48th regulator]

Having worked in the Entertainment Lighting industry, and working for the largest GE Vendor of entertainment light bulbs, I can tell you that all of the major manufacturers (GE, Philips, Ushio) will be making a switch to Fluorescent or LED lighting.

Incandescent light will go way of the Do-Do Bird, either by gradual legislation, or an outright global ban. They are not energy efficient, an obvious, and give off way too much heat which again must be countered by artificial (Air conditioning) cooling.  Further to that, their life expectancy is fractions of Flouro or LED.


Outside of your home, not many places use incandescent lighting, therefore I can definitely see them legislated into extinction.


dileas

tess

 

[Occam]

This has nothing to do with "going metric". The watt and the lumen are both metric units of measure.

I never even noticed, but you're right - this isn't a metric issue at all.

Not being familiar with the lumen, I looked it up - it's the SI unit for luminous flux, or more simply, luminous power.

How is it defined?

According to Wikipedia:  If a light source emits one candela of luminous intensity uniformly across a solid angle of one steradian, its total luminous flux emitted into that angle is one lumen.

Candela?  Steradian?

I think people are still quite happy using  watts =  volts x amperes  :nod:

 

[Michael OLeary]

When you folks get tired of picking the flyshit out of the pepper over power vs luminosity units of measure, you'll perhaps notice what forum this is in, and the quotation marks in the title.  Look closely and you may also find some vestige of context in my comment leading the first post.  Or, just ignore all that, and carry on.

 

[Occam]

Incandescent light will go way of the Do-Do Bird, either by gradual legislation, or an outright global ban. They are not energy efficient, an obvious, and give off way too much heat which again must be countered by artificial (Air conditioning) cooling.  Further to that, their life expectancy is fractions of Flouro or LED.

I think the jury is still out on some of the claims about CFLs - http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2009/03/04/mb-light-bulbs.html

When you folks get tired of picking the flyshit out of the pepper over power vs luminosity units of measure, you'll perhaps notice what forum this is in, and the quotation marks in the title.  Look closely and you may also find some vestige of context in my comment leading the first post.  Or, just ignore all that, and carry on.

Sorry, if there was a tongue-in-cheek aspect to the post, I missed it - and it looks like everyone else did too. 

 

[danchapps]

Incandescent light will go way of the Do-Do Bird, either by gradual legislation, or an outright global ban. They are not energy efficient, an obvious, and give off way too much heat which again must be countered by artificial (Air conditioning) cooling.  Further to that, their life expectancy is fractions of Flouro or LED.

So what you are saying Tess is that I might have to get rid of my FEL desk lamp? Nooo, it's just the right output, bright as the sun, and oh so in-efficient!

(Side note, Lumens would be a more accurate measurement, so I won't be hating the change)

 

[the 48th regulator]

So what you are saying Tess is that I might have to get rid of my FEL desk lamp? Nooo, it's just the right output, bright as the sun, and oh so in-efficient!

(Side note, Lumens would be a more accurate measurement, so I won't be hating the change)

Yep,

And you would Make David Suzuki so proud, too.

dileas

tess

 

[X-mo-1979]

Except that many people have become accustomed to purchasing incandescent light bulbs of an expected level of brightness by familiarity with the only rating on them - the wattage.  That measure loses its relevance with CFL bulbs.

60 watts =800.Got it.Come on.
I know dumb people will buy a whole pile of wrong bulbs and have their house at a multitude of lumen levels.However that's life.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I catch Michael's theme. Just want to state though, that if I can turn on the switch and see what I'm looking at, I don't care what it's called or how it makes the light.

The only thing green about me is my uniform.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I catch Michael's theme. Just want to state though, that if I can turn on the switch and see what I'm looking at, I don't care what it's called or how it makes the light.

The only thing green about me is my uniform.

Less money you spend on electricity, and more light bulbs, will give you more money  that can then be used to buy you beer.

Beer is made with some of the most natural and green substances, available.


See how easy that was?

dileas

tess

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Less money you spend on electricity, and more light bulbs, will give you more money  that can then be used to buy you beer.

Beer is made with some of the most natural and green substances, available.


See how easy that was?

dileas

tess

How would you know? You've missed the last gazillion M&Gs ;D

 

[the 48th regulator]

How would you know? You've missed the last gazillion M&Gs ;D

Aha!!

That is because I am basking underneath the light of a Fluorescent tube, drinking all of my extra beer!!

You see, I really had a secret I was keeping!
:cheers:


dileas

tess

 

[KingKikapu]

well I could see why they want to go to flux instead of power; LED, CFL, OLED, hell even laser is getting a shot at lighting now.  It makes no sense to use power when you have so many competing forms of light with differing energy input requirements.  Best to measure them by flux instead of power draw.

tisk tisk to whomever said a watt wasn't metric.  James Joule and Sir Isaac Newton would be spinning in their graves.