Lets dispell this gay myth

[Trinity]

We actually had a decent conversation until people decided to add opinion
not based on fact or experience.  So, before you post, stop and think if
what you're posting is relevant to the topic or just you feeling the need to add
your 2 cents only to cause trouble. 


So I'm 19 at Carleton University (no joke please), and walking through their tunnel
system and a man approaches me with and asks me for the time.  I reply its 4:20. He
nervously says, sorry?, I reply, its 4:20 looking at my watch.  He takes my watch hand
and sticks a note in it and the swiftly walks away.  The note says.....

For a good blow job, call phone number XXX-xxxx  anytime.

That was my first experience with gays. 

My next experience was worse.  A gay friend of the group (who incidently stuffed his pants)
after i passed him the salt at dinner thought we had 'locked eyes' and it was magic.. (right).
He said when he looked into my eyes he knew i was the one.. yadda yadda.  Needless to say,
he bugged me for weeks to date and offered to sleep with me.  It was annoying to say the least.

So... whats my opinion at age 19 about gays..  not good, thats for sure.

Carleton, 2nd year, age 20.  I'm at a FootPatrol training event.  We were addressed by the leader
of the Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual centre (GLB).  That was the first time I learned the problems of
being gay, issues of the community, how and why someone is gay, etc...  I was confused cause
they guy seemed normal and contradicted my understanding of gays

SO...  one day I went to the GLB and spoke with him.  I told him about my experiences (mentioned above).
He told me a piece of advice that sticks in my head today.

There are always idiots in every race, creed, colour, denomination, sexual orientation,... etc....


I was judging the entire community off two events.  How narrow minded and naive of me.  I ended up
being really good friends with him over the year and not once did I feel uncomfortable or did he
make a pass at me, etc.


I have since served with many gays and lesbians in the army, civiy side of life and university.
Have I been hit on since... YES.  But its a compliment more than its a hindrance.  SURE, its
uncomfortable or it can be depending.  But how hard is it to say, No thanks and move on drinking
your beer.  AND mostly, gay people leave straight people alone... its called GAYDAR. 
(NOT MY WORD OR TERM.... comes straight from my gay friends)
Apparently I register on people's gaydar so i get hit on more than most.

Some of my best friends are gay.  They don't look at me like a piece of meat simply because I am
a guy.  We don't look at women and want to sleep with everyone of them so why do we assume a
gay person wants to sleep with everyone of the same sex.  Men at the best of time are either fat
or ugly so lets not flatter ourselves by thinking that every gay person wants to sleep with us.

Gays can and have successfully raised children
Gay marriage has not erroded society - thats what they said about rock and roll - yet we still stand
Gays are not child molesters - thats mostly done by straight men
Gays do not choose to be gay - I know a lot of gays.. trust me... its not a choice


I don't know where to go without starting up the flame war of gay marriage which I'm trying
to avoid.  I think I'll end with a joke.. by Eddie Murphy.

I like gay people.  You can do lots of things with gay people.  I played tennis with a gay person
the other day.  The only difference is at the end I said I was going for a cold beer. He said, OK
I'm off to suck some .XXXX. 

The point of the joke is, the only difference we have from gay people, is their sexual preference.

They are human. They need to be loved. They have feelings and are hurt deeply by this hatred
by others simply because people do not know or understand what being gay is. 

I have received many PM's of personal stories since that last gay marriage thread of people telling
me they were anti gay until a friend or family member came out.  Then... it forces people to learn.
From education comes informed opinions.  Informed opinions are better than the myths that we have
flying around.

The only way we will learn is to discuss, not flame, not insult, not blame, but discuss.
I have shared my experience.  And that is what I present it as. MY EXPERIENCE.
If I never talked about my initial 2 incidences, i would still have the same nasty opinion. Talking is the key.

Would someone please be kind enough to share your experience.

 

[paracowboy]

Would someone please be kind enough to share your experience

sure. Buddy of mine comes into a bar I used to frequent, after a long absence. Usual back-slapping, etc. Ask him where he's been, he gives the scoop, then he says "...and I got married".
Long, pregnant pause.
"Uuuhhh, really. But, I thought...I mean...well, xxxx, buddy, I kinda always thought you were gay, dude."

"I am. This is my husband, Butch."

I takes a look at ol' Butch and fall off my damn stool laughin'. 'Cause 'butch' he AIN'T! Made him take his driver's licence out an' everything.

Okay, so it ain't all that profound. It was funny!
Maybe you hadda be there.

"Butch". Heh. If only his folks coulda known...

 

[1feral1]

I am just sick and tired of people fearing to offend everyone in this worsening PC world. Honestly, I don't care who anyone sleeps with, but just don't flaunt it in my face. I don't care what sex you prefer, just as long as you do your job effectively and without hinderance to others, as some types of 'behaviour' can be demoralising to a majority, and reflect the effectiveness at the basic level of command.

Too be honest ther seems too much of things flaunted in our faces these days, and its that I don't like one single bit. Yes I am not very PC at the best or worst of times, I tell it how it is, and I hope one day there will be a 180 degree turn on being PC and it will be in vogue to be honest and upfornt, maybe even direct, rather then approaching things weak and limp wristed (no pun intended) with a spinless attitude, and fearing to offend others.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[canadianblue]

I am just sick and tired of people fearing to offend everyone in this worsening PC world. Honestly, I don't care who anyone sleeps with, but just don't flaunt it in my face. I don't care what sex you prefer, just as long as you do your job effectively and without hinderance to others, as some types of 'behaviour' can be demoralising to a majority, and reflect the effectiveness at the basic level of command.

Too be honest ther seems too much of things flaunted in our faces these days, and its that I don't like one single bit. Yes I am not very PC at the best or worst of times, I tell it how it is, and I hope one day there will be a 180 degree turn on being PC and it will be in vogue to be honest and upfornt, maybe even direct, rather then approaching things weak and limp wristed (no pun intended) with a spinless attitude, and fearing to offend others.

Cheers,

Wes

I agree with you, I don't give a shit what people do in their own homes as consenting adults. But for myself I don't want it flaunted towards me all the time. Personally I am against homosexaulity, but I don't hate the people who practice it, and I don't think I should be forced to believe it is an acceptable lifestyle. Should I force other people to agree with my beliefs, no. I recently heard that the Victoria Police Department is openly recruiting homosexauls, whose business is it what any applicant does with their sex life. Plus for me whenever I see the Toronto Gay Pride Parade on TV with half naked men and women walking down the street, some clad in bondage type of attire, I just think why in the hell is this Toronto's biggest parade, and I don't really want to see this.

Thats my opinion on the matter.

 

[Jordan411]

I feel like Trinity read my mind on a couple of the points brought up. Very well written.

 

[GO!!!]

Maybe someone with some gay friends can answer this;

WHY does so much of the Gay community feel the need to rub the public's face in the gay diaspora? WHY?

The resistance to gays that is encountered can, in many cases be traced to the publicity that gays demand (and recieve)

Why can't being gay be a quiet, personal lifestyle choice? Why do I have to tell my kids that the two gay bikers simulating sodomy on a carnival float on gay pride day are friends - just like mom and dad - kind of...

I enjoy scotch and metalwork, it does'nt mean I parade because of it though.

 

[Britney Spears]

I didn't ask any of my gay friends, but the answer is the same as any other group, be it ethnic, religious, or whatever, who have been, in the past subject to discrimination and violence. Makes sense to me. In any case, they've not oversteped their constitutional rights, so why would you have a problem with it any more than you'd have a problem with, say, a Buddhist, Hindu, or Muslim religious proccesion? Presumably you are not Buddhist, Hindu, or Muslim and they would all look strange and nonsensical to you.

So, to answer your question,

I enjoy scotch and metalwork, it does'nt mean I parade because of it though.

But you certainly CAN, if you were so inclined. And everyone should have the right to do so.

To dispell some more myth:

http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html
 

 

[Korus]

I've got a buddy who is gay, and he's not in your face attention and getting about it. In fact, you probably wouldn't discern him from any other nutty non-gay university types.

We've agreed that I won't talk about girls to him, and he won't talk about guys to me due to mutual discomfort.

Appart from that, he's just like all the other guys.

I think Trinity had it best in his post, with what he was told:

There are always idiots in every race, creed, colour, denomination, sexual orientation,... etc....

 

[spenco]

WHY does so much of the Gay community feel the need to rub the publics face in the gay diaspora? WHY?

I enjoy scotch and metalwork, it doesn't mean I parade because of it though.

I agree with this, it is none of my freakin business what someone else does in private but when people try to shove anything down my throat (be it sexuality, religion, math class, etc...) that is when I get pretty pissed.  I have seen this a lot at my school, if anyone says "gay" in a way that might possibly be construed as bad they are sent to the administrator.  We have also had several gay pride days in the school where guys put on dresses and all that lovely stuff.  One day they even put the gay flag up on the flag pole right underneath our flag.  That was the line for me, that REALLY pissed me off, the flag should never be used to make a political statement in any fashion.  There are also several obviously homosexual teachers at my school but they are descent enough not to talk about it in class or make a big deal of it.  This is the kind of attitude that needs to be more prevalent, nobody gives a flying rats ass what you do in your spare time, so people dont need to take it upon themselves to enlighten the rest of us.

 

[Sheerin]

I have a feeling this thread is going to downhill, sadly. 

Trinity, like always, you've said what you said extremely well.

I've been hit on many times, and its never bothered me.  Like you trinity, i took it as a compliment - though there were times when I wished that girls would be that forward but c'est la vie.  I've been in many gay bars with some of my friends and have never once felt uncomfortable. 

As for Gay pride, well, I love it.  Its one of the best parties I've ever been to.  And its not just a celebration of gay pride, its a celebration of life.  There are many heterosexual couples who go just because its one giant party.  It's great. 
And really, no one is trying to shove it down your throat, hell the vast majority of people who attend don't really care about you or what you think. 

 

 

[canadianblue]

As for Gay pride, well, I love it.   Its one of the best parties I've ever been to.   And its not just a celebration of gay pride, its a celebration of life.

Personally I don't really see how a bunch of naked men, some clad in bondage outfits and simulating anal sex is a celebration of life. In Edmonton the elected mayor didn't want a pride parade and was elected by the people, however was told he would be charged for human rights violations if he didn't. As well in BC a counsellor was fired for arguing against allowing gay pride magazines in schools which proclaimed the joys of S&M because it was contradictory to his beliefs, guess what he got fired, despite the fact he their was no proof he displayed hatred towards GLB youths. At a gay pride parade I remember seeing a parade float which mocked the pope and catholics, shouldn't they be considered hate. I think that if gays and lesbians expect us to be tolerant of their lifestyles, they should be tolerant of other peoples lifestyles as well.

I remember reading on a seperate thread about how the Globe and Mail's first page was all about the huge gay pride parade in Toronto, then on the second page in the bottom corner a tiny heading and photo about the veterans who were remember the 50th anniversary of the end of the Korean War. My problem is that it seems that all Canada's starting to become is a country that puts gay pride before tradition. I don't think that should be the case.

 

[Slim]

My problem is that it seems that all Canada's starting to become is a country that puts gay pride before tradition.

Sadly its been quite some time since this spoiled country of ours has had to take any sort of serious responsability for itself. I hope one day that doesn't jump up and bite us all on the ass...

Slim

 

[Joe Blow]

With regard to GO's question:

WHY does so much of the Gay community feel the need to rub the public's face in the gay diaspora?

I think that Britney Spear's answer is a good one:

the answer is the same as any other group, be it ethnic, religious, or whatever, who have been, in the past subject to discrimination

...I'm guessing that it probably feels good to just 'let it all hang out' after feeling that you have had to 'keep it all in'.  I mean that specifically  ...meaning one's self (inner strugglel, or feeling self/social pressure to be straight), and also generally ...in the sense of 'one's people' (meaning historically). If you are a gay guy who view history predominantly as the interaction of groups of peoples (..not my preferred view of history to emphasize, but a legitimate one nonetheless), and feel that your group has been oppressed, then you would feel some catharsis in the antics of the gay pride parade.

So I suppose I have been inclined to be a little indulgent of overt (really inappropriate) public sexuality that we see in gay culture ..the gay pride parade included.  That said however I think that the culture has realized a level of acceptance, for a long enough period of time now that society should begin to expect the same level of restraint that we see in the braoder culture.

That would mean no simulated sodomy in parades to start with ..but then again how much worse is a Britney Spears video?  It's not in the streets but it is all over the air waves.  ...Maybe the difference is just that we are more comfortable explaining one rather than the other to our children.  ...Then again we have to option of turning off a music video...

Maybe this post is less opinion more just thinking out loud...  Sorry to ramble. I hope I have added to the discussion.

PS: For the record I think that Brittany Spears videos are pretty inappropriate too.. 

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Why anyone gives a fuck what goes on between two or more consenting adults is beyond me.

 

[Sheerin]

Personally I don't really see how a bunch of naked men, some clad in bondage outfits and simulating anal sex is a celebration of life

Not everyone does that.  The majority at the festival don't.  You do get some who do but really, its not like they go up to and start grinding or whatever.  True there will be some idiots, but there are idiots everywhere. 

 

[DogOfWar]

I dont like it but I dont care. it doesnt make them "nonhuman". I dont like people who speed or drink to much either. I also dont like guys that screw anything that walks. But none of that matters. If my neighbours were gay or my kids were gay it wouldnt change how I deal with them or treat them. I dont approve, but they probably dont approve of my horrible fashion sense.It all equals out. I do find it awkward when Im hit on by a gay man. And for the record my own "gaydar" works very well. I know someone is gay before they admidt it to me- I like the surprise when I say "I know".

I like the Eddie murohy joke.

However I dont believe the government should force a church to marry gay couples. They should be allowed to be married- but it should be done by a church/religion/denomination that agrees with it.

 

[cgyflames01]

The resistance to gays that is encountered can, in many cases be traced to the publicity that gays demand (and recieve)

Why can't being gay be a quiet, personal lifestyle choice? Why do I have to tell my kids that the two gay bikers simulating sodomy on a carnival float on gay pride day are friends - just like mom and dad - kind of...

I enjoy scotch and metalwork, it does'nt mean I parade because of it though.

I agree totally, I have the same problem with African, and Asian Culture's, Some people get so wrap up in what makes us different, that they forget, what makes us the same. The only real race is the Human Race, and it's time people realise it. The other thing that bothers me is, when people say their, African-Canadian, or Irish-Canadian. What ever happend to just being Canadian, no matter what your pigment or great-great-great grand parents ethnicity was.

 

[Donut]

I've known, over the years, a dozen or more queers.  From UBC to JLC (one of my section came out to me while scrubbing the shower...that was a little odd), childhood friends, from my patients on the ambulance service to people who I work beside, from the cop that comes when I holler for help to the big bruiser bouncing at the nightclub, and they are fundamentally the same as everyone else (my fiancee spent 5 years policing Vancouver's downtown east side.  Half her squad was female, almost all were married or in long-term relationships.  She was the only one who went home to a guy). 

I also know people in poly relationships, who practice S&M and all the other sex-related accronyms, same same, just a little more open to their desires then the average joe, and even more in the closet then just a couple of queer guys.

They raise well adjusted kids, worry about bills, take a couple of weeks off in the summer.  Same same.

I suspect that one of the reasons the pride parades and the gay-rights organizations make such a big deal of public displays of their relationships is, if you've been exposed to 500lbs of leather-dudes mock-humping on a float, maybe you'll accept them when you see two guys share a kiss or hold hands as they walk down the street.

They're not out molesting kids, they're not out to convert you, they don't care who you go home to and sleep with, why should we care what they do at home, or in their clubs?  It's all consenting adults.  It's their lives.



Now, I'm not a fan of pornography, but when three or more people are in love, someone should be taking pictures!  ;D

 

[fir_na_tine]

Maybe someone with some gay friends can answer this;

WHY does so much of the Gay community feel the need to rub the publics face in the gay diaspora? WHY?

The resistance to gays that is encountered can, in many cases be traced to the publicity that gays demand (and receive)

Why can't being gay be a quiet, personal lifestyle choice? Why do I have to tell my kids that the two gay bikers simulating sodomy on a carnival float on gay pride day are friends - just like mom and dad - kind of...

I enjoy scotch and metalwork, it doesn't mean I parade because of it though.

I asked a few of my close gay friends on this one for you, so don't ding me on this matter, but at anyrate this is what they said to me when I brought it up:

"Everyday when we walk down a street we are subjected to public displays of affection, I have yet to be able to walk down the street holding my girlfriends hand without receiving catcalls from passing vehicles, threats from others walking around us, and I have yet to feel safe being who I am. That's why the pride parade is so important to me, and to others, it allows us to be who we are without having to worry about all of those things, For one day we are the ones giving out the pda's in public. We're proud of who we are but we cannot show it like heterosexuals do, it's not safe in society right now. One day of not having to hide who we are is a blessing... And I'm thankful for that, some people out in the parades give us a bad image sometimes, but you have to understand we're not all like that..."

 

[paracowboy]

I agree with GO!! here:

Why can't being gay be a quiet, personal lifestyle choice? Why do I have to tell my kids that the two gay bikers simulating sodomy on a carnival float on gay pride day are friends - just like mom and dad - kind of...

and I feel the same when I see hetero people behaving the same way in public. It's inappropriate, and kids don't need to see adults acting like that.

As for what two (or more) consenting, human, adults do out of the public eye, and as long as it doesn't harm anyone else: who cares?