Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[DBNSG]

I don't see this every coming from politicians; the NSS was a strategic vision from a number of dedicated public servants. Part of the pitch was selling the short term benefits to politicians.

It's not that the politicians didn't get the long term strategic goals, but they needed something in it for them in the short term.

My LL from that is that anytime there is something like IRBs, Indigenous procurement, GBA+ we need to embrace it on the PM side and try and use it to get the project going. Bit of a pain in the ass, but I'd rather work through some extra things with OGDs and deliver a capability than try and fight city hall and get nothing.

Just wish the other departments that are supposed to be supporting that weren't useless; trying to figure out if there are Indigenous companies that actually provide the widget/service that you are looking for is a completely manual process, and we just don't have time to run around looking for it. It would be nice if INAC (or whatever they are called now) was actively working with PSPC on that to push that info out.

I believe Chretien was the P.M. that designated an indigenous component for Defence contracts with the Sea King replacement project. I live just a few KM's away from that manifestation when I drive by the General Dynamics building in Cole Harbour. A local Mic Mac reserve are the landlords. Mr Trudeau's relaxation of Cannabis laws has now almost completely surrounded the GD building with at least seven private cannabis shops including a couple of drive thrus.

Priorities ?

 

[Kirkhill]

I believe Chretien was the P.M. that designated an indigenous component for Defence contracts with the Sea King replacement project. I live just a few KM's away from that manifestation when I drive by the General Dynamics building in Cole Harbour. A local Mic Mac reserve are the landlords. Mr Trudeau's relaxation of Cannabis laws has now almost completely surrounded the GD building with at least seven private cannabis shops including a couple of drive thrus.

Priorities ?

Sometimes the 70% solution is all you get.

 

[MilEME09]

I believe Chretien was the P.M. that designated an indigenous component for Defence contracts with the Sea King replacement project. I live just a few KM's away from that manifestation when I drive by the General Dynamics building in Cole Harbour. A local Mic Mac reserve are the landlords. Mr Trudeau's relaxation of Cannabis laws has now almost completely surrounded the GD building with at least seven private cannabis shops including a couple of drive thrus.

Priorities ?

Industrial off sets, like the French fry plant in Alberta Irving claimed as an industrial offset for the NSPP

 

[FJAG]

Good to see Jack's still at it. I've always enjoyed his opinions

It would be nice if someone within the government, DND or the CA had read and paid attention to his and Charlie Belzile's The Special Commission on the Restructuring the Reserves 1995: Ten Years Later.

13 recommendations either ignored or given lip service.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Just wish the other departments that are supposed to be supporting that weren't useless; trying to figure out if there are Indigenous companies that actually provide the widget/service that you are looking for is a completely manual process, and we just don't have time to run around looking for it. It would be nice if INAC (or whatever they are called now) was actively working with PSPC on that to push that info out.

Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada (CIRNAC) and Indigenous Services Canada (ISC). What a useless org for the most part, with a few exceptional people that gave a damm. Even during our Environmental Reviews, it was almost impossible to get an answer from them.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada (CIRNAC) and Indigenous Services Canada (ISC). What a useless org for the most part, with a few exceptional people that gave a damm. Even during our Environmental Reviews, it was almost impossible to get an answer from them.

This is the program I was thinking of; everytime we do a procurement now we have to fill in a form if it's appropriate for an Indigenous procurement. There isn't any kind of guide for how to do this, and no idea what happens if there happens to be a supplier that is an indigenous business that can do the contract (ie can I sole source something easily with them).

Odds are good it will actually take longer than a standard RFP, so no advantage to me to spend the time to look around suppliers, see if any are on a list, and then figure out what to do next, so this is a really bizarre requirement when you go out to buy widgets.

At the moment just means that everytime I buy something I fill out a form for this, as well as another form if it's been looked at for accessibility criteria and a few other unexplained random forms, plus normal forms to do an actual RFP.

It makes more sense for something like the NSS, where the companies get multipliers towards their credits, with using Indigenous businesses as one of them, but otherwise it just is a rubber stamped form that gets ignored.

If I could somehow check a list against a part list, and have some expedited process to buy from it, it would be awesome, but otherwise it's just a waste of time, when we go out to buy some widgets in a normal RFP from the lowest compliant bidder.

Opportunities for Indigenous businesses - Advancing socio-economic goals, increasing competition and fostering innovation - Better Buying - Buying and selling - PSPC

Description​

Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC) is fostering the participation of businesses owned or led by Indigenous groups in its contracts.

Status​

Ongoing. PSPC is leveraging federal procurement to support Indigenous businesses by providing them with increased opportunities to access the federal government market. To further help stimulate Indigenous economic development, PSPC is increasingly incorporating requirements for benefits for Indigenous Peoples and businesses into federal procurement, such as through Indigenous Benefits Plans. Indigenous Benefits Plans enhance economic opportunities for Indigenous Peoples and businesses through increased possibilities of competing successfully for contracts or of participating in employment, training or subcontracting opportunities. The contract for the administration of the Canada Student Loans Program, for example, awarded by PSPC on behalf of Employment and Social Development Canada, stipulated that a portion of the services needed to be delivered by an Indigenous sub-contractor.


In collaboration with Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, PSPC is also encouraging departments that procure more than $1 million annually to find ways to increase the value of contracts awarded to Indigenous businesses. Departments have been asked to aspire to an Indigenous procurement objective of 5% by the end of the next 5 years.


Finally, the department is partnering with professional organizations that support Indigenous businesses to help encourage their participation in government procurement. These organizations include the Canadian Aboriginal and Minority Supplier Council (CAMSC) and the Council for the Advancement of Native Development Officers (CANDO).

 

[dimsum]

The Field Army's greatest obstacle is the Office Army in Ottawa. How much relevant modern gear and in what quantities could the Army buy if we had a U.S MARINE CORPS Ratio of Officers to enlisted?

Honest question: Isn't the USMC essentially (although they hate to admit it), a part of the Navy though? So while yes, it's a "separate service", it's not really in the eyes of the politicians. Also, would that mean that the USMC would have a smaller "tail" because part of it is taken up by the USN, including HQ, etc roles? I also don't think comparing us to the US Army is appropriate (too big), so I would think a better comparison would be the Australian Army.

Also, I've heard (so take with a massive chunk of salt) but if you take the programs and rank them by $ value, the top few are RCN and RCAF programs, then CA. It was third-hand info, but given how much money aircraft procurement estimates are, I'm not really surprised.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Also, I've heard (so take with a massive chunk of salt) but if you take the programs and rank them by $ value, the top few are RCN and RCAF programs, then CA. It was third-hand info, but given how much money aircraft procurement estimates are, I'm not really surprised.

Part of that is national/strategic goals place on the different "elements" of the CAF, within the National Defence policy.

"Protecting the air, land, and sea approaches" of the country, in addition to commitments to NORAD states a pretty clear intention to maintain some kind of fighter/air defence/early warning system within Canada. If those fighters happen to go expeditionary, that's a bonus too.

Similarly with the Navy as well, but we also have NATO maritime commitments and the Fisheries/CARRIBE stuff to require a semi-blue water Navy. That all requires hulls in the water and hulls being fabricated. Hence NSS.

The Army piece, however, is left pretty strongly up to interpretation and that's what's killing any form of readiness/reaction capabilities from being created or fielded. We need to be FEMA, Youth Employment, PSO, COIN, NATO augmentees etc. Different governments have different opinions on what the Army needs, regardless of what we ask for. Some of it is our doing, but a lot of it comes from the colonial "we'll be part of a coalition...so....." mentality.

It's that dithering, unharmonized mentality that sees us on the bottom of the pecking order with funding until there are Troops in Contact.

 

[FSTO]

Honest question: Isn't the USMC essentially (although they hate to admit it), a part of the Navy though?

The are under the control of Secretary of the Navy. There is a big fight going on within the Corps about returning to its roots and re-invigorating the Navy-Marine team. This is due to the long land wars in the Middle East that corrupted the USMC's raison d'etre.

You can also toss in the Coast Guard during times of war (go from DHS to Sec Nav). The US Coast Guard is an interesting beast, it fits seamlessly into the maritime military when required, our command master chief at Combined Maritime Force Bahrain was a Coastie.

I'm going to find an opinion piece from Proceedings that proposed that all maritime assets of the US government (like everything in the US, each department has an enforcement arm of some sort) be placed under one department.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Navy_Pete
I am not sure any fully owned FN company is capable of manufacturing ship parts. The big push now is to get their people into trades and companies are teaming up with FN to provide opportunities for training in skilled jobs. LNGCanada has hired a company that will use mostly FN personal to man the escort tugs for the LNG tankers. However even that will take 10-15 years to produce skilled tug Masters. Better to look at companies that have a solid capacity building program for the FN.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Navy_Pete
I am not sure any fully owned FN company is capable of manufacturing ship parts. The big push now is to get their people into trades and companies are teaming up with FN to provide opportunities for training in skilled jobs. LNGCanada has hired a company that will use mostly FN personal to man the escort tugs for the LNG tankers. However even that will take 10-15 years to produce skilled tug Masters. Better to look at companies that have a solid capacity building program for the FN.

There are some that are working with VSY on the NC ships, but in general it's just an annoying bit of paperwork that in no way actually creates any opportunities for Indigenous businesses as we have no idea who is offering what.

We work with a lot of resellers, so there are likely some companies out there that provide some of the COTs items we use that aren't aware that we're trying to buy things, and we aren't aware they are selling things, so it's a performative policy that does nothing to actually let anyone know what the options are.

We have pretty limited procurement bandwidth, so most buys are time sensitive, but if there were benefits to us as LCMMs (like reduced procurement processing times) then it would be a win/win, but even if someone pushed us a list of companies that sold things relevant to what we work on (like fire services) then we could at least include them in the emails that go out to suppliers when we put RFPs out. Right now we just have a giant unsorted list of suppliers, so unless they've bid on similar items we just don't have time to dig through the list to be proactive.

The accessiblity one is equally futile; there aren't any requirements for things like ramps etc when I'm buying POL, so we just have a blank form with some kind of statement along the lines of 'does not apply' that we use with each procurement, but takes a few minutes to sign it every time. Bit frustating to have spent a few cumulative hours over the last quarter signing meaningless forms that don't actually do anything.

I'd be happy to push business to Indigenous businesses if there was actually real support to be able to do it, but I guess at the moment they at least have the same opportunity as anyone else who can navigate Buy & Sell, and the RFP process, which is still pretty confusing even if you are familiar with it.

Maybe it would be better if between PSPC, CIRNAC and ISC someone had workshops etc for Indigenous businesses looking to get into federal contracts to help explain the process.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Here is the company I speak of, perhaps they can push to offer tug services in Esquimalt as well?

Home - HaiSea Marine

haiseamarine.com

 

[Spencer100]

Here is the company I speak of, perhaps they can push to offer tug services in Esquimalt as well?

Home - HaiSea Marine

haiseamarine.com

its a Seaspan company.

 

[CountDC]

Years ago while working at a HQ in Ottawa the policy we had to live with was that at least 10% of our orders had to go to an Indigenous company. Was a pain tracking it and when the turn came everyone complained about the paper provided. It was thinner and yellow instead of white plus cost more upfront. It also cost more in the long run as the thinner paper tended to get messed up more in the printers.

 

[Navy_Pete]

its a Seaspan company.

Corporate ownership in general is really complicated, but included the bit below where it's a joint enterprise with Haisla Nation holding the majority.

There are a lot of similar corporate relationships in much larger enterprises as well, with some wings being majority owned by a private owner.

VSY has parterned up with Coastal Aboriginal Shipbuilding Alliance to help get people into apprenticeship type spots, and also working with some suppliers for things like some commercial radars ( I think ) for some CCG ships. That required a lot of work on their end though, so really requires people to be proactive.

Under our tendering process, there isn't any kind of exception to sole source something or provide preferential selection to Indigenous companies, but there doesn't seem to be anything in Government to help anyone up to speed in putting in bids. The really big projects encourage the primes to work with Indigenous companies (as part of the Value Proposition multipliers) but there aren't many big projects like NSS, so outside the once a generation strategic bids there is nothing really happening, and we don't have the HR resources on the procurement side to proactively look for new suppliers on normal NICP buys.

I'm sure there are companies looking to do bids on big projects that would be interested in getting extra procurement points by partnering with some indigenous companies, and you would think if there is a departmental priority to do it there would be someone working to help link them together, by at least letting some of the multinationals know that there are some First Nation business development associations or something.

Anyway, just a pet peeve of mine, where we have some kind of on paper priority to do more business with FN companies, and make things more accessible, but that actual implementation is a completely ineffective bit of additional paperwork that doesn't actual achieve anything other than waste people's time (when we are already short handed).

About HaiSea Marine​

HaiSea Marine is a joint venture majority owned by the Haisla Nation in partnership with Seaspan ULC.
“HaiSea Marine is majority-owned by the Haisla Nation,” Haisla Nation Chief Councillor Crystal Smith said. “Our agreement with Seaspan ensures our members will have access to employment, training and procurement opportunities on the contract with LNG Canada. The opportunity to work locally in the marine industry is of great significance to the Haisla people.”
Both partners have considerable experience and knowledge of operating in Northern British Columbia, making HaiSea a natural choice for providing responsible and dependable marine services in the region.
In May 2021, HaiSea announced the start of an innovative and industry leading new battery-powered and low emissions tugboat build program.

 

[DBNSG]

There are some that are working with VSY on the NC ships, but in general it's just an annoying bit of paperwork that in no way actually creates any opportunities for Indigenous businesses as we have no idea who is offering what.

We work with a lot of resellers, so there are likely some companies out there that provide some of the COTs items we use that aren't aware that we're trying to buy things, and we aren't aware they are selling things, so it's a performative policy that does nothing to actually let anyone know what the options are.

We have pretty limited procurement bandwidth, so most buys are time sensitive, but if there were benefits to us as LCMMs (like reduced procurement processing times) then it would be a win/win, but even if someone pushed us a list of companies that sold things relevant to what we work on (like fire services) then we could at least include them in the emails that go out to suppliers when we put RFPs out. Right now we just have a giant unsorted list of suppliers, so unless they've bid on similar items we just don't have time to dig through the list to be proactive.

The accessiblity one is equally futile; there aren't any requirements for things like ramps etc when I'm buying POL, so we just have a blank form with some kind of statement along the lines of 'does not apply' that we use with each procurement, but takes a few minutes to sign it every time. Bit frustating to have spent a few cumulative hours over the last quarter signing meaningless forms that don't actually do anything.

I'd be happy to push business to Indigenous businesses if there was actually real support to be able to do it, but I guess at the moment they at least have the same opportunity as anyone else who can navigate Buy & Sell, and the RFP process, which is still pretty confusing even if you are familiar with it.

Maybe it would be better if between PSPC, CIRNAC and ISC someone had workshops etc for Indigenous businesses looking to get into federal contracts to help explain the process.

I would do some reach out to Membertou in Sydney. The Nephew of the Chief obtained his Law degree at Dalhousie and spent five years practicing on Bay Street but came home with a brand new plan. He convinced the Chief , his uncle that it was time to modernize the bands practices to professionalize how they did things. Membertou is one of the only 9002 certified Indigenous bands in North America. They are building new homes for band members with real 3/4 Plywood sheathing. No one makes that investment in Homes . Membertou does. I stay at the Hampton Suites on Membertou when I am in CB for business. They even host and teach other Band administrations how to do it.

Perhaps they could be a one stop shop for Defence investment?

 

[Navy_Pete]

I guess my point is that none of that is my job, and we're actually discouraged from giving any single supplier preferential treatment, but there are people who are supposed to be doing this kind of thing that don't seem to be doing anything.

There are lots of bands that are doing some really great and proactive things like that, as well as individual entrepreneurs with pretty good businesses that take advantage of things like their income tax to be more competetive in labour rates that I'm sure would be more than capable of getting into government contracting and provide the same quality, but it's not going to happen by asking individual LCMMs trying to maintain a few thousand widgets whether they've done an exhaustive market survey every time you go to buy something.

What we are doing at the LCMM level really achieves nothing but generates a form marked 'N/A', but some policy clown is probably using it to tick a box.

If someone was going to put resources towards this, that would be great, but I generally resent wasting my time on performative bureacracy that achieves no actual effect, when we can't keep up with the pile of existing work.

It could be something simple, like someone looking at what is posted on Buy & Sell, and pinging potential suppliers about the RFP, while letting us know who they are. Otherwise, unless someone happens to bid on an RFP, we don't have time to go and look for additional suppliers when we know there are a few existing potential suppliers.

Different story when we are replacing a major system, and you will spend a bit of time looking at the marketplace for some options, and do things like requests for Information (RFIs), but we do however many millions every year in routine and ongoing widget buys for exciting things like filters, valves, cables etc that are readily available.

I joke once in a while about setting up a business to sell CAF widgets as a reseller, but a lot of business out there for small companies if they can jump through the RFP hoops. Also a lot of work for consultants helping companies navigate the bureaucracy, so wouldn't be surprised if there are teams of retired procurement/policy SMEs that are trying the create a niche for themselves working with different bands to help develop that kind of business.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Speaking of which...

I joke once in a while about setting up a business to sell CAF widgets as a reseller, but a lot of business out there for small companies if they can jump through the RFP hoops. Also a lot of work for consultants helping companies navigate the bureaucracy, so wouldn't be surprised if there are teams of retired procurement/policy SMEs that are trying the create a niche for themselves working with different bands to help develop that kind of business.

The Federal Government has ensured that it will always be served by - mainly - the 'Second Eleven' of the consulting industry, largely because of its Byzantine procurement processes.

All other levels of government are more responsive, less bureaucratic, pay more, and partner willingly in the right ways to help ensure a much better overall result.

They also execute, unlike the Feds, more easily which is the money shot for most ethical consultants that actually want to make a difference.

You can't pay me enough to have a bad time

 

[Navy_Pete]

I don't know about that one, the city of Ottawa accepted a bid on the LRT that didn't meet the technical requirements.

Even by Fed government standards for procurements that's pretty amateur hour.

Basic RFPs are actually pretty straight forward, it's the actual process to get it on the street that we add a lot of internal stupidity on.

Complex procurements are difficult; I think things look worse at the fed level because it's much more complex than most things provincial or local governments do. The big provincial infrastructure programs are also full of disasters.

Adding on a whack of additional requirement from OGDs makes it harder as well. That seems to be where all the consultants come in; people can work their way through RFPs easily enough it's when you add in things from ISED and another deparments it seems to be where they bring them in more.

I also would most likely want to gnaw a limb off, but if it was something useful like helping some of the bands work through the bureaucracy that might not be too bad.

 

[Good2Golf]

I don't know about that one, the city of Ottawa accepted a bid on the LRT that didn't meet the technical requirements.

More to the point, the city deliberately de-linked and anonymized the financial and technical bids, and awarded purely in the financial bid, then re-linked the financial and technical bids and ‘surprise, surprise’ realized that SNC Lavelin had entirely under-spec’d the tech bid big time to be able to win the overall bid given they understood the award was solely based on the financial bid the technical bid was entirely missing an automated control system, and this non-compliant…so they were ‘allowed’ to keep the win and add the automated control system which…get ready for this…made the financials more expensive and thus not the cheapest financial bid this negating the validity of the award. Not even DND and PSPC could have gotten away with such a fiasco…