Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)

[OldSolduer]

I find the history of religions more interesting than anything however... like most of you I do not believe in Santa, easter Bunny or tooth fairy

Excuse me?

 

[AbdullahD]

I find the history of religions more interesting than anything however... like most of you I do not believe in Santa, easter Bunny or tooth fairy

I believe in real science (not "science" for profit), evolution, dinosaurs, darwinism, etc.

I can not say I am 100% aetheist because I still wish people a Merry Christmas and a Happy easter (I believ Jesus/Esa was real but what exactly he was...a different story)

When mankind becomes so wrapped up in religion and uses it as an excuse to impose their will on others, then you know something has gone terribly wrong.

Oh, we could have some fun talking about theistic evolution

Muslims believe in theistic evolution, dinosaurs etc. we are not of the young earth crowd

 

[a_majoor]

I find the history of religions more interesting than anything however... like most of you I do not believe in Santa, easter Bunny or tooth fairy

I believe in real science (not "science" for profit), evolution, dinosaurs, darwinism, etc.

I can not say I am 100% aetheist because I still wish people a Merry Christmas and a Happy easter (I believ Jesus/Esa was real but what exactly he was...a different story)

When mankind becomes so wrapped up in religion and uses it as an excuse to impose their will on others, then you know something has gone terribly wrong.

I am thinking that there actually isn't a conflict between science and religion.

Science is about answering "how" things work, while religion is about answering the question "why" things are the way they are. While obviously painting science and religion with the broadest of brushes, I don't see there being much area for conflict. Indeed, having a moral compass probably helps scientists behave in an ethical manner (the post in the global warming super thread which shows that only about 20% of scientific papers and experiments can be replicated at all suggests that many scientists are not careful at the least or are very willing to stretch the truth).

We should also remember that many of the great scientists from the Age of Enlightenment were also very devout individuals and who used science as a means of discovering God's creation.

Of course science, religion or virtually anything else can be perverted and used to justify the persuit of power, which I think is at the heart of this debate.

 

[jollyjacktar]

You mean like DaVinci?  Atheist.

 

[AbdullahD]

I am thinking that there actually isn't a conflict between science and religion.

Science is about answering "how" things work, while religion is about answering the question "why" things are the way they are. While obviously painting science and religion with the broadest of brushes, I don't see there being much area for conflict. Indeed, having a moral compass probably helps scientists behave in an ethical manner (the post in the global warming super thread which shows that only about 20% of scientific papers and experiments can be replicated at all suggests that many scientists are not careful at the least or are very willing to stretch the truth).

We should also remember that many of the great scientists from the Age of Enlightenment were also very devout individuals and who used science as a means of discovering God's creation.

Of course science, religion or virtually anything else can be perverted and used to justify the persuit of power, which I think is at the heart of this debate.

Very Beautifully said

Abdullah

 

[QV]

I am thinking that there actually isn't a conflict between science and religion.

Science is about answering "how" things work, while religion is about answering the question "why" things are the way they are. While obviously painting science and religion with the broadest of brushes, I don't see there being much area for conflict. Indeed, having a moral compass probably helps scientists behave in an ethical manner (the post in the global warming super thread which shows that only about 20% of scientific papers and experiments can be replicated at all suggests that many scientists are not careful at the least or are very willing to stretch the truth).

We should also remember that many of the great scientists from the Age of Enlightenment were also very devout individuals and who used science as a means of discovering God's creation.

Of course science, religion or virtually anything else can be perverted and used to justify the persuit of power, which I think is at the heart of this debate.

Firstly I think folks such as evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens would disagree with you.  There are tons of great debates on YouTube featuring either, in case anyone is interested. 

Secondly, when you mention moral compass... If one needs the threat of eternal damnation in order to be good and moral, are those people really good at all?

 

[a_majoor]

Leonardo, although a very accomplished scientist and polymath, lived during the Italian Renaissance (not the Age of Enlightenment). While I have no definitive proof, Leonardo probably did have religious beliefs, but his interests in biology, dissection and science in general would have marked him as a heretic or worse in the eyes of the Catholic Church of that time. Based on the beauty and care of his religious iconography and paintings, I would strongly argue that Leonardo was certainly a very spiritual person.

WRT moral compass, Christianity, like most other religions has quite a few "carrots" as well as "sticks" to define moral behaviour. I'd rather believe that Luke 6:31 (doing unto others as you would have them do unto you) or 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 (Love is always patient) are much stronger and more inspiring to people than the threat of eternal damnation.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Firstly I think folks such as evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens would disagree with you.  There are tons of great debates on YouTube featuring either, in case anyone is interested. 

Secondly, when you mention moral compass... If one needs the threat of eternal damnation in order to be good and moral, are those people really good at all?

I enjoyed Bill Nye shredding the Noah story on YouTube.

 

[AbdullahD]

I enjoyed Bill Nye shredding the Noah story on YouTube.

Can you link me? I believe the flood was a localized incident, did he shred the universal flood version?

http://www.islam101.com/archeology/noah_ark.html

 

[jollyjacktar]

Ask and you shall receive.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpewEPHu24U

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Can you link me? I believe the flood was a localized incident, did he shred the universal flood version?

http://www.islam101.com/archeology/noah_ark.html

The Noah story is likely based on a fairly large kernel of truth http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/storms/great-flood1.htm

As for the animal bit, having kids and trying to explain complicated things to them, I can see how a good story teller could weave a more interesting tale and fill in the gaps with made up bits. Of course it lends itself to this type of humour.

]

 

[AbdullahD]

UK Muslim leaders wage war on Daesh.

[Quote author=excerpt]Leading British Muslims have admitted a propaganda battle against Islamic State is now being fought in their own mosques and communities. While the Islamic State's ability to disseminate its propaganda online and through social media is well documented, faith leaders in the UK have said they are fighting the terror group's ideology on their own doorsteps.[/quote]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/british-muslim-leaders-wage-war-isis-propaganda-uk-mosques-homes-1554234?awt_l=7cbPv&awt_m=h5Gu2LJcJGbOvKU&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=rss

 

[PuckChaser]

Should have happened years ago, but good to see.

 

[AbdullahD]

Should have happened years ago, but good to see.

It did happen years ago, but the media attention has been scarce.

Mufti Aasim and the BCMA is working with the RCMP in Surrey bc (I believe it is called CAVE the program I mean), 300 Islamic scholars just met in the USA to address this amongest other issues, Mufti Menk has been speaking out, Same with Mufti Abu Layth, Same with most  (i.e everyone i know of) of the worlds grand Muftis have been speaking out against this ideology.

The effort of Tabligh and Dawah has many members who work with CSIS to fight extremism (that is from me personally cause 3 friends of mine have met with csis over extremist issues and it is common knowledge that csis talks to us because we tend to know everyone). Almost every scholar who is an Imam of a Mosque that I know of in BC meets with the rcmp and csis regularly.

Ill try to post links to back this up if I get time to use google later on. I posted this one because people think our communities have been doing nothing. We are working hard against these evil ideologies, its just an uphill battle.

How far back are you thinking, I can go about 8-10 years I think. But if your thinking 20.... then im at a loss.

Abdullah

 

[PuckChaser]

What I'm thinking, is that we see thousands march to support questionable governments in Palestine, or anti-Israel rallies, but where's the massive "Islam is not terrorism" march down Younge Street or in Times Square? If the large masses of Muslims stood up shoulder to shoulder and be heard in a unified voice, the media would listen. You can't counter a narrative by staying silent, it's past the point where small meetings are going to change opinions.

 

[AbdullahD]

What I'm thinking, is that we see thousands march to support questionable governments in Palestine, or anti-Israel rallies, but where's the massive "Islam is not terrorism" march down Younge Street or in Times Square? If the large masses of Muslims stood up shoulder to shoulder and be heard in a unified voice, the media would listen. You can't counter a narrative by staying silent, it's past the point where small meetings are going to change opinions.

You are right, sort of. Have you heard of Tongi or Raiwind Ijtema? or the BC, Toronto, Canada Ijtema's? Tongi Ijtema, last I knew had more attendees then Haj.

The effort of dawah and tabligh started more then a hundred years ago and holds these ijtemas annually that pull in millions of Muslims worldwide. They teach and preach and practice, non-Violent jihad i.e suppressing your desires as being the more important Jihad, they teach love and caring for Muslims and non-Muslims alike. they teach you that through self rectification the world becomes a better place. They teach things that make us targets for the extremists.... and yet my money is on the fact that you have likely never heard of these gatherings, it is because they do not attract the mainstream media for some reason.

But, ask 10 random Muslims if they have heard about Tablighis or these Ijtemas or the door knockers, whatever they wish to call us and I can almost gaurantee one or more of the ten have. So if only Muslims know about a group of Muslims who are.
combating this Muslim problem, isnt that what is needed? The media can help show that we are working on the issues to non-Muslims, but most Muslims know we are.

We are up against well funded ideologies, we know we are in a ideological war and we are fighting our hardest. It is hard to tell if we are winning or losing, but we are fighting and paying the price. the BC ijtema is on the 20th of May, last I checked. Feel free to come check it out many Islamic scholars will be there, you can discuss with them too.

btw Tongi ijtema is held in dhaka bangladesh. Raiwind is held in Pakistan. I hope this helped.

Abdullah

p.s I do understand you said narrative,  but these gatherings work to change that in a way. If we change how Muslims act, that will correct the narrative eventually.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If people see enough people standing up to them, then they to will stand. Not all because quietly many agree with the nutbars, but would not raise a fist themselves. Real change in Islam is likely to come from the west, where people who think and act differently don’t have to always fear for their lives. These people will help and support the people in the countries with higher risk and give them hope and support to sustain them in the fight. We as in the west need to get off our collective butts and push the Gulf states to stop funding the nutbars. We also need to deal with the apologists in the west who give cover to the radicals and allow them to spread their crap. What the apologists don’t realize is that by giving the radicals a pass, you are seriously harming the efforts of the modernists and literally placing their lives at risk.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Speaking of Muslims standing up against radicalism. I haven't looked at what he has said, but if it pisses off ISIS that good for me.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/04/13/isis-makes-threat-against-toronto-imam

 

[mariomike]

Regarding the 22 March 2016 Brussels Attacks,

Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures Used in the 22 March 2016 Brussels Attacks
https://info.publicintelligence.net/DHS-FBI-NCTC-BrusselsAttacks.pdf
This Joint Intelligence Bulletin (JIB) is intended to provide a review of the tactics, techniques, and procedures demonstrated by the perpetrators of the 22 March 2016 attacks in Brussels, Belgium.

 

[George Wallace]

I hope that Trudeau does not permit this scumbag to keep his Citizenship, although in all probability he likely will:

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

‘Trick them, kill them’: Former Ottawa imam issues call to arms after son killed in Libya
The National Post
Stewart Bell
Tuesday, Mar. 8, 2016

TORONTO—A former Ottawa imam has issued a fiery call to arms to Libyans after his son, raised in the Canadian capital, was killed in clashes in Benghazi, where Islamist militias are battling elements of the Libyan military.


“Allah break the backs of the tyrants and the oppressors and the unjust and those nations of the world that are with them,” Abdu Albasset Egwilla said. “Allah they have gathered against us and are scheming against us, so scheme against them.

“Trick them, kill them.”

In a televised speech to a gathering in Tripoli, he acknowledged the death of his son, Owais Egwilla, and thanked “all of those who were with him in the battlefield,” according to a translation by the SITE Intelligence Group.

“Our youth are waging battles in the Libyan east, youth, men who were honest in what they promised Allah. And so some of them died, and others are waiting. We are waiting for martyrdom in the name of Allah. And by Allah this is our path until we push back evil. We will not stop nor resign.”

The cleric, who preached at an Ottawa mosque before returning to Libya, was the subject of a Canadian intelligence report released last year that said he had appeared in an August 2014 video urging Libyan Islamist fighters to “take part in jihad.”

He seemed to do the same in his latest speech, calling the Libyan conflict a battle “against the people of evil” and asking, “Allah give our mujahedin (fighters) angels.” He said he supported national unity “but one that relies on Allah’s book.”

The Libya Herald online daily called him “a known hardliner” and a director of the Tripoli office of the ministry of religious endowments. It said the death of his son had “reignited concern about extremist influence in the ministry.”

His son had reportedly joined a Benghazi militia and was badly injured last week by forces loyal to Gen. Khalida Haftar, a Gaddafi-era soldier. A spokesman for a Libyan-Canadian group said Egwilla was in a building struck by a barrel bomb.

A notice posted on a Facebook page linked to the Shura Council of Benghazi Revolutionaries said Egwilla and another man had died “after a battle they waged against a group from the disbelieving forces,” according to SITE.

The death was raised at Monday’s sitting of the Senate National Security and Defence Committee, where Canadian Security Intelligence Service director Michel Coulombe testified about the 180 extremists who had left Canada to take part in terrorism.

Speaking to reporters later, he would not confirm the killing. “I’m not saying that I doubt this person is dead,” he said. “What I’ve said and we’ve seen this a number of times, people are reported as being killed, just to resurface two, three, four weeks, a month later on Twitter or Facebook.”

Egwilla was fighting with the Omar Mukhtar Brigade, which is part of the Benghazi Shura Council, the Libya Herald reported. On Facebook, he had posted messages about jihad as well as the propaganda of the Syrian branch of al-Qaida.

But Khaled Misellati, a member of the Canadian Libyan Community Association’s board of trustees, said Egwilla was not an extremist. “He practically grew up here in Ottawa,” he said. He moved to Libya after finishing high school.

Two years ago, he returned to Ottawa to study. But he once again went back to Libya, where a civil war has been underway since 2014 as factions vie for power in the vacuum created by the death of longtime dictator Col. Muammar Gaddafi.

With files from the Canadian Press

Photos on LINK