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Iran Super Thread- Merged

Old Sweat said:
And re being downwind, fallout is a function of the height of burst and the amount of debris sucked up into the atmosphere.
I'm glad you posted that.  Too often I hear people discussing only cockroaches and Keith Richards surviving a nuclear attack of even just one bomb, due to all the radiation left behind. 


As for types of weapons to be used, if nuclear weapons were to be used, even on some remote target in the middle of nowhere, Iran, perhaps it would be the message to the government of Iran that we mean business.


And because of that, I predict that no nuclear weapons would be used, because the West doesn't have the balls to use them.
 
Technoviking said:
I'm glad you posted that.  Too often I hear people discussing only cockroaches and Keith Richards surviving a nuclear attack of even just one bomb, due to all the radiation left behind. 


As for types of weapons to be used, if nuclear weapons were to be used, even on some remote target in the middle of nowhere, Iran, perhaps it would be the message to the government of Iran that we mean business.


And because of that, I predict that no nuclear weapons would be used, because the West doesn't have the balls to use them.


I wasn't thinking of the big, US led, West; I agree that there is no sense of common purpose. But Israel has the means and, I think, the will - IF they perceive a sufficient threat.

My guess is that Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't care what President Obama, Chancellor Merkel and all the rest might think - IF the threat is real, immediate and sufficient then Israel will act, even if it means p!ssing off all the Western "leaders."
 
E.R. Campbell said:
My guess is that Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't care what President Obama, Chancellor Merkel and all the rest might think - IF the threat is real, immediate and sufficient then Israel will act, even if it means p!ssing off all the Western "leaders."
Agreed. 
 
Old Sweat said:
And re being downwind, fallout is a function of the height of burst and the amount of debris sucked up into the atmosphere.

Since the nuclear facilities are deeply buried, any nuclear strike will have to be a ground burst or subsurface (either penetrating warheads or commandos emplacing backpack nukes inside the facility), which adds up to a lot of fallout. Messing up the cheque clearing system at the banks or disrupting the power grid is orders of magnitude safer and easier, but I agree that the Israelis will use whatever means they deem necessary to end the threat, regardless of what we think.
 
I think there are too many lies between both parties to make a reasonable supposition on the use of nuclear weapons.
Israel has pledged a 'no first use' (NFU) unless its existance is threatened, while Iran has declared its intention to wipe Isreal off the face of the map as soon as they have it. (And yet both speak of how peaceful their intentions are.)

IMO I don't think that Iran will ever get the chance to use it, let alone complete it.

E.R.'s may be right on the button, but it does not mean that Israel will nuke Iran.


According to this article shared with provisions of The Copyight Act
U.S. election ups risk of Israeli strike on Iran: expert
Simon Cameron-Moore 16 Nov
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/16/us-iran-nuclear-risk-idUSTRE7AF29R20111116

(Reuters) - An Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear sites may become likelier in 2012 if Israel calculates it has more room to act alone in a U.S. presidential election year, a former U.S. official and nuclear diplomacy expert said.
Full article at link.

But on the other hand, Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian says the Israeli regime will never have the courage to actualize its threats of launching an attack against the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Israel, which has suffered humiliating defeats in Lebanon and the Gaza strip, will never be able to make any gains facing the superior power of Iran.

The United States and Israel have repeatedly threatened Tehran with a military strike under the pretext that Iran's nuclear program may have a covert military aspect.
Iran has categorically rejected such allegations and says it only seeks the peaceful applications of nuclear technology and that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has never found any indication of a diversion in Tehran's nuclear program.
Article also shared with provisions of The Copyright Act continues at link below
'Israel won't dare attack Iran'
Press TV 10 Nov
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/209392.html

                              ___________________________________________________
A further article of interest and shared as above

PM Netanyahu: Iranian nukes endanger Mideast, world peace.
http://radiojurnal.canalblog.com/archives/2011/11/09/22630773.html
Radiojournal 09 Nov

excerpt;

Today, the whole world faces an important test: Will they understand that Iran is a threat that must be taken care of?” Livni told the Post. The Kadima leader explained that Iran is not a political issue. “This is not something that a particular prime minister is advocating,” she said. “This isn’t an effort for just one side. We must try to bring a strong international decision.” Livni's media campaign is focusing specifically on Russia and China, in hopes of convincing the two key countries to intensify their opposition to Tehran in the UN Security Council.

“The report revealed a truth that Israel has been saying for years: Iran is in a nuclear arms race, and Iran must be stopped,” she said in interviews with Russian national television and radio, as well as China’s official news agency.


“Until now, China and Russia avoided dramatic sanctions for economic reasons,” Livni explained to the Post. “In the past, I tried to convince them, but the answer I received is that there is no proof.” “Now there is proof that this isn’t a Zionist plot,” she added. As far as China’s claim that the IAEA report doesn’t offer sufficient proof to act against Iran, Livni said “whoever is looking for an excuse can find it, but this is a serious report.


They can’t argue with it.” In interviews with Chinese and Russian media, as well as the BBC, AP, Reuters, CNN, Moscow Television and Sky News, Livni explained that “Tehran’s behavior is a problem for the entire free world. It is time to act.” “Iran is not only an Israeli problem; it never was. It is a problem for the whole world, and if Tehran will reach its goals, the whole world will pay the price,” she said.

“World leaders must work together and take action,” Livni added. “Make the obvious conclusions from this report. You cannot claim that you don’t have enough information.” “Iran must be stopped. The time to act is now. There is no longer a dilemma on this issue,” she said.

Earlier Wednesday, Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee chairman Shaul Mofaz (Kadima) called the IAEA report “an opportunity for the free world to take action.” Speaking from the US, Mofaz told Army Radio that he thinks “the time has come to intensify sanctions and paralyze the Iranian economy.” “The report exposed the true face of Iran and its intentions,” the Kadima MK said. “Anyone who thinks he’s immune [to the Iranian threat] is making a mistake.” Mofaz, who was born in Tehran and moved to Israel at age 9, explained that Iran’s missile range could reach most European capitals, and will bring “a balance of terror in the Middle East.”

He contended that “military action of any kind, particularly from Israel, is the last and worst course of action at this time, but all options must be on the table and ready.” “We will not accept a nuclear Iran,” Mofaz said
 
Iran threatens NATO bases in Turkey
The Associated Press Posted: Nov 26, 2011
Article Link

ran will target NATO's missile defence installations in Turkey if the United States or Israel attacks the Islamic Republic, a senior commander of Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guard said Saturday.

Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the head of the Guards' aerospace division, said the warning is part of a new defence strategy to counter what he described as an increase in threats from the U.S. and Israel.

"Should we be threatened, we will target NATO's missile defence shield in Turkey and then hit the next targets," the semiofficial Mehr news agency quoted Hajizadeh as saying.
Downgrade in Iran, U.K. diplomacy

Iran's parliament on Sunday approved a bill requiring both Iran and Britain to withdraw their respective ambassadors from each other's countries, following London's support of recently upgraded U.S. sanctions on Tehran.

Tehran's relations with Britain have become increasingly strained over the past few months, largely driven by tensions over Iran's disputed nuclear program. The West says the country is developing weapons; Tehran denies the claims.

Iranian lawmakers voted for the bill requiring the country to reduce its relationship with Britain to the level of charge d'affaires within two weeks.

Tensions have been rising between Iran and the West since the release of a report earlier this month by the International Atomic Energy Agency that said for the first time that Tehran is suspected of conducting secret experiments whose sole purpose is the development of nuclear arms
More on link
 
Caveat:  initial report only.....
Reports from Iran Monday night said that a large explosion had been heard in Isfahan, where several key nuclear facilities are located, particularly a uranium conversion plant. If correct, Monday's explosion would be the second in about two weeks, after 21 members of an elite Iranian army unit were killed outside Bidganeh village, 40 kilometers southwest of Tehran.

A spokesperson for the Revolutionary Guard was quoted as saying that the explosion Monday occurred as some weapons were being transported in the area.
Arutz Sheva (ISR), 28 Nov 11

Federation of American Scientists' backgrounder of what's of interest in Isfahan/Esfahan:
Esfahan (Isfahan) is said to be the primary location of the Iranian nuclear weapons program. The Nuclear Technology/Research Center in Esfahan is Iran's largest nuclear research center, and is said to employ as many as 3,000 scientists. Iran signed an agreement France in 1975 to build a nuclear research center in Isfahan, to provide training for personnel to operate the Bushehr reactor, located at the University of Isfahan. As of 1977 Iran reportedly planned to have at least one reactor and a small French-built fuel reprocessing facility in Isfahan by 1980.

The University of Isfahan, with over 50 years of experience, is one of the leading higher educational institutes in Iran. The university embraces seven faculties with thirty departments as well as an evening school. The University of Isfahan has a unique location at the foot of the Kuh Sofeh (Sofeh mountain, 32o35'00"N 51o38'00"E) with an area of 4.5 million square meters. Over 1000 graduate students and 10,000 under-graduate students are trained in various fields of Science, Engineering, Human Science, Economics, Linguistics, Educational Science and Sport Science ....
Google Maps link to Isfahan/Esfahan, IRN
 
Man oh man, they seem to have Homer Simpson working for them.  Oh well, natural selection will weed out the more incompetent workers as the more recent evens seem to play out.
 
IRN officials, media:  What boom?
Deputy Governor of Isfahan in Political Security Affairs and Monday night denied news broadcasted on some news lines on spread of a heavy sound in city, quoted on his behalf.  Deputy Isfahan Gov. denies news on speaking of heavy sound in city
Mohammad-Mahdi Esma'ili added in a phone talk with IRNA, 'I have had no interview with any media today (Monday morning) in that respect and the broadcasted news on my behalf if sheer lies.'
He meanwhile stressed that the Isfahan Governorate would pursue the matter at the judiciary.
Meanwhile, the Public Relations Manager of Isfahan Fire Department Mas'oud Anayeb, too, while rejecting the news broadcasted on the horrendous noise in Isfahan, said, 'So far the Fire Department has received no news in this respect.'  Some news sites on Monday afternoon quoted some provincial officials as saying that a horrendous sound had been heard in Isfahan.
IRNA official state media page, 28 Nov 11
 
More on the explosion:

http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2011/11/breaking-huge-explosion-in-iraqs-nuke.html

BREAKING: Huge Explosion In IRAN's Nuke City

Less than two weeks after a mysterious explosion destroyed an Iranian missile development base, and the same day the Israeli Military reported on the effect of that explosion, Iran's official news agency FARS reported that a loud blast was heard in the city of Isfahan at 2:40 pm local time (6:10am EST).

Iran operates a uranium conversion plant near Isfahan, which has a major role in the nuclear weapons process. first went into operation in 2004, taking uranium from mines and producing uranium fluoride gas, which then feeds the centrifuges that enrich the uranium.

Since 2004 (thank you France) , thousands of tons of uranium flouride gas were stockpiled at Isfahan and subsequently sent to the enrichment plant in Natanz. Search and rescue teams called to the scene confirmed the blast, but as of yet no injuries have been reported.

Iran's uranium enrichment plant is located just outside the city of Isfahan – one of Iran's largest cities.

According to the FARS report, a security official confirmed that the explosion had occurred, but refused to give further details. The district's security department head Muhammad Mahdi Ismaili said "we have no exact information; the incident is being investigated.

Earlier today, Israeli military intelligence commented on the last Iranian explosion, the one two weeks ago which destroyed a missile technology production site at a military base in Tehran which killed one of Iran's missile project heads. 
"The blast in the site where surface-to-surface missiles were developed can delay or bring to a complete halt the production of the missiles at that site," said head of the Directorate of Military Intelligence Research Section Department Brigadier General Itai baron at a briefing in the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee.

"However," Baron cautioned, "It must be emphasized that Iran has other development sites other than the one that was destroyed."
It will be interesting to see if this explosion (and the one two weeks ago) is the result of Iranian incompetence, bad luck, or some outside source.

More to come.


Update 1: Mmmmm..


Update 2:

Elder of Zion Adds

A BBC reporter tweets his father in Isfahan heard the explosion.

A Second Iranian news source confirms it, unclear if it was 2:40 AM or PM. Make that three.
Iranian tweeters are all saying it was either an arms depot or an ammunition depot.

Isfahan's governor is now claiming that it was from a "military exercise."

Update #3 5:30pm EST.

Since the news broke earlier today, the Iranians have been tripping over their underwear trying to explain away the explosion, offering excuses such as it was a military exercise, a gas station blew up and of course the all-purpose "it never happened."

The British paper the Telegraph is certain that it was sabotage, and it was caused by the Jooose.
Residents of the city were independently telling relatives and friends overseas that the city had been shaken by a massive blast in the early afternoon.

The reports immediately prompted speculation that Iran had suffered another sabotage attack, just two weeks after a blast at a missile base gave rise to similar suspicions.

Military analysts however said the intensity of the explosion suggested a targeted attempt at sabotaging Iran's nuclear-related missile development programme, most probably carried out by Mossad.
If it was Mossad or any other Israeli organization, we will never know for sure, Israel does not confirm this kind of information pro or con.

As for what exactly exploded and how bad--that will take a few hours or even days. Stay tuned, will update this page throughout the night.
 
On a more serious note:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/a-second-iranian-nuclear-facility-has-exploded-as-diplomatic-tensions-rise-between-the-west-and-tehran/story-e6frg6so-1226209996774

A second Iranian nuclear facility has exploded, as diplomatic tensions rise between the West and Tehran
BY: SHEERA FRENKEL From: The Times November 30, 2011 11:00AM


Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, visits the Natanz Uranium Enrichment Facility south of the capital, Tehran, Iran. Source: AP
AN IRANIAN nuclear facility has been hit by a huge explosion, the second such blast in a month, prompting speculation that Tehran's military and atomic sites are under attack.

Satellite imagery seen by The Times confirmed that a blast that rocked the city of Isfahan on Monday struck the uranium enrichment facility there, despite denials by Tehran.

The images clearly showed billowing smoke and destruction, negating Iranian claims yesterday that no such explosion had taken place. Israeli intelligence officials told The Times that there was "no doubt" that the blast struck the nuclear facilities at Isfahan and that it was "no accident".

The explosion at Iran's third-largest city came as satellite images emerged of the damage caused by one at a military base outside Tehran two weeks ago that killed about 30 members of the Revolutionary Guard, including General Hassan Moghaddam, the head of the Iranian missile defence program.

Iran claimed that the Tehran explosion occurred during testing on a new weapons system designed to strike at Israel. But several Israeli officials have confirmed that the blast was intentional and part of an effort to target Iran's nuclear weapons program.

On Monday, Isfahan residents reported a blast that shook tower blocks in the city at about 2.40pm and seeing a cloud of smoke rising over the nuclear facility on the edge of the city.

"This caused damage to the facilities in Isfahan, particularly to the elements we believe were involved in storage of raw materials," said one military intelligence source.

He would not confirm or deny Israel's involvement in the blast, instead saying that there were "many different parties looking to sabotage, stop or coerce Iran into stopping its nuclear weapons program".

Iran went into frantic denial yesterday as news of the explosion at Isfahan emerged. Alireza Zaker-Isfahani, the city's governor, claimed that the blast had been caused by a military exercise in the area but state-owned agencies in Tehran soon removed this story and issued a government denial that any explosion had taken place at all.

On Monday, Dan Meridor. the Israeli Intelligence Minister, said: "There are countries who impose economic sanctions and there are countries who act in other ways in dealing with the Iranian nuclear threat."

Major-General Giora Eiland, Israel's former director of national security, told Israel's army radio that the Isfahan blast was no accident. "There aren't many coincidences, and when there are so many events there is probably some sort of guiding hand, though perhaps it's the hand of God," he said.

A former Israeli intelligence official cited at least two other explosions that have "successfully neutralized" Iranian bases associated with the Shahab-3, the medium-range missile that could be adapted to carry a nuclear warhead. "This is something everyone in the West wanted to see happen," he added.

Iran has repeatedly denied the existence of a nuclear weapons program, and strongly condemned the International Atomic Energy Agency's report last month that accused Iran of trying to build a nuclear weapon.

Michael Ledeen offers a dissenting opinion that these events are caused by dissenting elements within Iran's power structure or perhaps the "Green Revolution". Either way, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat, and the Iranians are being skinned pretty good without airstrikes or other overt military actions (and who knows, perhaps the accidents are the result of shoddy work practices and poor maintenance).
 
WingsofFury said:
In hopes of keeping this thread serious but with the occasional bit of laughter thrown in, I submit to you the following:

Iranian Engineers - Be Afraid!

As a Professional Engineer, I'm not allowed to disparage my fellow Engineers.  :facepalm:

But that is self disparaging so no further comment needed.
 
As for the invasion of the British Embassy, I fall back to my solution when they took over the US Embassy in 1979.

Just plow the whole country under, then pave it over.
 
because the picture is in Java...I can't get the before pic....see the website...

Image captures Iran military base explosion damage
Article Link
30 November 2011

A satellite image has captured apparently extensive damage from an explosion at a military base near Tehran earlier this month.

Some buildings at the Revolutionary Guards base seem to have been completely destroyed in the explosion.

The 12 November blast killed 17 soldiers and has been widely blamed in Iran on foreign intelligence services.

On Monday, another in a series of unexplained explosions was reported in central Isfahan province.

They come at a time of heightened tensions over Iran's nuclear ambitions.

US and European powers fear that Iran is trying to develop a nuclear weapon, though Iran says its nuclear programme is purely for peaceful purposes.
More on link
 
Here is the before image.

iranbefore.jpg
 
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