• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Inspector General of Australian Defence Forces Report on Afghan War Crimes

Weinie

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
378
Points
980
OK. I don't want to conflate Somalia and alleged SAS misdeeds in Afghanistan.
 

Good2Golf

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
325
Points
980
FJAG said:
Let the piling on begin:

But Orr argues disbanding 2 squadron is not only “completely disingenuous” but sends the wrong message.

“Disbanding a squadron also places blame on the enlisted ranks firmly,” he said. “Disbanding the entire regiment would be the officer corp taking responsibility also, but of course we see now rampantly that wasn’t ever an option.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/25/australias-entire-sas-regiment-must-be-disbanded-after-brereton-report-expert-says

Sounds a bit shrill to me.

:cheers:

I don’t understand Orr’s 2 Squadron comment?

Is 2 Sqn run by NCMs only?  How does deactivating one of four squadrons bias against NCMs? ???

Regards
G2G
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Myth
Reaction score
828
Points
910
Good2Golf said:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/25/australias-entire-sas-regiment-must-be-disbanded-after-brereton-report-expert-says

Sounds a bit shrill to me.

:cheers:


I don’t understand Orr’s 2 Squadron comment?

Is 2 Sqn run by NCMs only?  How does deactivating one of four squadrons bias against NCMs? ???

Regards
G2G

The right answer is probably something like: you don't get rid of deep and dangerous performance issues by disbanding organizations. You get rid of them through good leadership.


 

dimsum

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
175
Points
680
Good2Golf said:
I don%u2019t understand Orr%u2019s 2 Squadron comment?

Is 2 Sqn run by NCMs only?  How does deactivating one of four squadrons bias against NCMs? ???

Regards
G2G

I don't believe it is - there was another article saying that the Chief of Army (or the Chief of Defence Force) was a former 2 Sqn officer years ago.



Also, some SAS folks are potentially facing dismissal:

Defence starts dismissing SAS soldiers in wake of Afghanistan war crimes inquiry

At least 10 current members of the elite Special Air Service Regiment implicated in the damning Afghanistan war crimes inquiry have received "show cause" notices from the Defence Department.

The ABC can reveal Defence "initiated administrative action" against serving Special Forces members within days of last week's landmark Brereton war crimes report being made public.

Defence sources have told the ABC the elite soldiers facing possible expulsion are members of the SAS's now disbanded 2 Squadron as well as the Regiment's 3 Squadron.

Other Special Forces members may eventually be discharged or face a range of disciplinary sanctions, including formal warnings.

[rest on link]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-26/defence-dismissing-sas-soldiers-accused-war-crimes-afghanistan/12920946
 

Good2Golf

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
325
Points
980
Dimsum said:
I don't believe it is - there was another article saying that the Chief of Army (or the Chief of Defence Force) was a former 2 Sqn officer years ago.



Also, some SAS folks are potentially facing dismissal:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-26/defence-dismissing-sas-soldiers-accused-war-crimes-afghanistan/12920946

I attributed it to Professor Orr’s mal-comprehension of the organization...
 

FJAG

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
305
Points
880
Good2Golf said:
I attributed it to Professor Orr’s mal-comprehension of the organization...

When I first read the article I sensed that dissonance and tried to research his credentials as an "expert". I found nothing in the way of publications except three articles on terrorism going back to 2013 and 2015, a few news interviews and a reference that he's still writing something about the Sydney Lindt cafe siege of 2014.

Anyone have a link or something which shows this guy's expertise?

:cheers:
 

dimsum

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
175
Points
680
Looks like the Special Operations Task Group may not get their Meritorious Unit Citation taken away after all. 

Defence steps back from move to strip veterans of military decorations after war crimes inquiry

The Defence chief has bowed to public and political pressure, saying "no decision" has yet been made on whether to revoke honours awarded to Australian soldiers for service in Afghanistan.

When releasing the Brereton report this month General Angus Campbell said he would recommend to the Governor-General that the meritorious unit citation be stripped from the Special Operations Task Group (SOTG) following revelations of alleged war crimes.

Since announcing the move on November 19, General Campbell has faced considerable pressure over the decision, with Prime Minister Scott Morrison declaring on Monday: "No decisions have been made on that."

Veterans believe about 3,000 members of the SOTG which served in Afghanistan from 2007-2013 would be affected by a decision to revoke the military decoration.

[More on link]

Also, only in Australia would you see this quote from a sitting politician: 

"If General Campbell has not felt the bitch slap from all those millions of Australians out there, he needs to pull his head out of his arse," Senator Lambie told reporters in Canberra.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-30/defence-says-no-decision-yet-on-meritorious-citation-afghanistan/12935302
 

Cloud Cover

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
27
Points
430
Senator Lambie looks and sounds like an interesting character.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2020-11-30 at 8.11.23 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-11-30 at 8.11.23 PM.png
    353.1 KB · Views: 90

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
43
Points
630
Meanwhile, China sticks its nib in as well ....
A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson has hit back at the Australian government's demands for an apology over a doctored photo posted by a Communist Party official.

The photo, blasted as "repugnant" by Prime Minister Scott Morrison, has been altered to depict an Australian soldier holding a knife to the throat of a child atop the Australian and Afghanistan flags.

China's Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian today tweeted the faked image, sparking Mr Morrison's swift rebuke demanding an apology from China and for the image to be taken down.

Below the image, which shows the child's face covered and holding a lamb, are the words: "Don't be afraid, we are coming to bring you peace".

"Shocked by murder of Afghan civilians and prisoners by Australian soldiers. We strongly condemn such acts and call for holding them accountable," Mr Zhao said in the tweet.

He was making reference to the findings of the Brereton report, which alleged Australian special forces soldiers committed 39 murders in Afghanistan ...
Still a pinned tweet on this guy's Twitter account as of this post.
 

Good2Golf

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
325
Points
980
Journeyman said:
With almost 50K 'likes'  :not-again:

...ahhh, University of Bejing’s 3rd-year Comp Eng class...
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Myth
Reaction score
828
Points
910
Good2Golf said:
...and Hong Kong....and...

Since you mentioned 'Hongers'

China Targets Hong Kong’s Lawmakers as It Squelches Dissent

Four pro-democracy figures were forced out of the legislature, prompting another 15 to vow to resign in solidarity, as Beijing cracks down on one of the city’s few remaining venues for political opposition.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/world/asia/hong-kong-protest-democracy.html


 

OldSolduer

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
180
Points
680
I'm late to the game here but from what I gather China - that virtuous regime of human rights - is sticking its nose in on the subject of Aussie soldiers murdering Afghan citizens.... isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
485
Points
830
Hamish Seggie said:
I'm late to the game here but from what I gather China - that virtuous regime of human rights - is sticking its nose in on the subject of Aussie soldiers murdering Afghan citizens.... isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Yeah, but that's just China being China. Everyone will get all pissy at each other for a couple weeks but otherwise things will carry on as normal (not that relations are great to begin with).
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
293
Points
880
Brihard said:
Yeah, but that's just China being China. Everyone will get all pissy at each other for a couple weeks but otherwise things will carry on as normal (not that relations are great to begin with).

Countries don't seem very inclined to call out China for their behavior.
 

dimsum

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
175
Points
680
There's a bit of a row on whether the Special Operations Task Group (SOTG) should have their Meritorious Unit Citation stripped.  Looks like the recommendation may be overturned.

Skirmish between Defence Chief Angus Campbell and Prime Minister Scott Morrison over military decorations will leave permanent scar

This is a war General Angus Campbell cannot win. His humiliating surrender is inevitable.

The Chief of the Defence Force may have the best hi-tech weapons at his disposal, but they are impotent to the will of the Prime Minister.

Soon enough it will be Scott Morrison 1 — Angus Campbell 0.

The CDF's decision to accept Paul Brereton's recommendation to strip the Special Operations Task Group of a Meritorious Unit Citation following evidence of Afghanistan war crimes is in slow, ugly retreat.

And when this PM v Top Brass skirmish is at an end, a backdown compromise will emerge, but there will be a permanent scar.

General Campbell's authority will have been diminished by a PM who believes he has a better read the public mood, and the obvious tension between the men is over process and how justice is being delivered.

[More on link]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-03/chief-defence-force-angus-campbell-war-crimes-statement/12938454



Also, regarding the whistleblower who publicized the incidents:

Petition to 'free' Afghan war crimes whistleblower David McBride reaches 36,000 signatures

In a move started by Afghan Australian lawyer Arezo Safi, the petition calls to “free” David McBride from prosecution as a “first step” towards repairing the Afghan community’s relationship with the Australian Defence Force.

From 2014 to 2016, McBride, a former Defence Force lawyer, made information on alleged war crimes committed by Australian soldiers in Afghanistan available to the ABC, which reported the details in 2017.

The following year he was charged with five national security-related offences, including theft of Commonwealth property and unlawfully disclosing a Commonwealth document, which carry a sentence of up to life imprisonment.

McBride pleaded not guilty to each of the charges at a May 2019 preliminary hearing and he's currently awaiting trial.

[More on link]

https://www.sbs.com.au/language/english/petition-to-free-afghan-war-crimes-whistleblower-david-mcbride-reaches-36-000-signatures
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
102
Points
630
I just want to make sure I understand this... I've googled a few different sources, so I just want to confirm I understand this properly.

A lawyer, while working on a file, discovered the possibility of gross misconduct on behalf of certain SOF personnel, some of which constituted war crimes. 

He decided to go public with the matter, and was subsequently charged by the government??
 
Top