Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers

[Retired AF Guy]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-rock-on-the-rocks-newfoundland-labrador-bankruptcy

Meanwhile Newfoundland and Labrador is going bankrupt, in part because

“It is becoming a very hard sell to bring people there and keep people there.”

Hmmm. I think I can see a solution to our problems.

 

[Altair]

Maybe a wise individual would look at the two situations and come to the conclusion that asylum seekers must live in Newfoundland and Labrador for 10 years if they want to come to Canada.

One of two things will happen.

One, they happilly live in NFL and LBD or two, they decide the violence, poverty, poor living conditions and corrupt politics of whatever country they came from is better than a Newfoundland winter, and leave of their own accord.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Retired AF Guy]
Hmmm. I think I can see a solution to our problems.
[/quote]
I saw the same solution for 5 seconds.
Unless it comes with a free house, free car and spending money it's not going to work.

When the government contacted those 20'000 or 30'000 refugees to try and coax them to coming to Canada we had what, 3000 people interested? Can't see many of our new guests excited at the prospect of heading out that way. Which is unfortunate for them because it's such a beautiful part of our country.

 

[Altair]

I saw the same solution for 5 seconds.
Unless it comes with a free house, free car and spending money it's not going to work.

When the government contacted those 20'000 or 30'000 refugees to try and coax them to coming to Canada we had what, 3000 people interested? Can't see many of our new guests excited at the prospect of heading out that way. Which is unfortunate for them because it's such a beautiful part of our country.

you're making that sound a lot more voluntary than it needs to be.

 

[Furniture]

you're making that sound a lot more voluntary than it needs to be.

How long would forcing someone to live in a particular part of the country stand up in court?

 

[Loachman]

How about asking the citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador for their opinions before declaring this to be a Good Idea.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

6(2) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms says that "permanent residents" of Canada have full mobility rights, so presumably, those awaiting a refugee hearing could sent by the government to live where ever it deems best.

 

[Altair]

How about asking the citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador for their opinions before declaring this to be a Good Idea.

Sure, of course.

Hello citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador. Would you like to take in working age men and women into your province that you cannot seem to attract yourself, leading to a ever increasing elderly population and fewer young working age people paying taxes to support them as a last ditch chance to turn around your horrible demographic crisis or would you rather slide closer and closer into bankruptcy that you for some odd reason expect the rest of Canada to bail you out for?

 

[Altair]

6(2) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms says that "permanent residents" of Canada have full mobility rights, so presumably, those awaiting a refugee hearing could sent by the government to live where ever it deems best.

Refugees need to apply to become a permanent resident. In the months it takes to get accepted, ship them to Newfoundland and Labrador.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Altair is correct: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants/pr-card/understand-pr-status.html

In the meantime, you can kill two birds with a single stone: Improve NL's financial situation with Federal funding - both to support the refugees and to increase the number of Federal civil servants in the form of more Immigration services officials and Immigration Board members living there.  ;D

 

[Furniture]

Refugees need to apply to become a permanent resident. In the months it takes to get accepted, ship them to Newfoundland and Labrador.

Smart use of money, there was a recent article talking about how most of the Syrian refugees sponsored in NL have left to live in major centers.

 

[Altair]

Smart use of money, there was a recent article talking about how most of the Syrian refugees sponsored in NL have left to live in major centers.

I would tie any long term federal assistance to living in Newfoundland and Labrador. Carrot.

If they choose to leave Newfoundland and Labrador, I would prosecute them for entering Canada illegally. Stick.

 

[Loachman]

"Working age men and women" need to be provided with jobs in order to support themselves and the social services that they will require.

How does one provide those?

How would it be any easier to provide housing, schools, medical facilities there than in major cities?

This province is becoming increasingly concerned about bankruptcy. How would dumping a load of dependent people into that situation help?

How would a relatively large number of people with vastly different cultures, customs, and practices be accepted in comparatively small municipalities? People tend to resent they accustomed ways of life being disrupted/destroyed.

 

[Altair]

"Working age men and women" need to be provided with jobs in order to support themselves and the social services that they will require.

How does one provide those?

Naturally, however, I do trust that these refugees are pretty resourceful.  https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/22/immigrants-canadians-business-statistics-canada_n_9519690.html

"The StatsCan report, which was compiled in partnership with researchers at UBC and the Institute for Research in Public Policy, is the first to address "business ownership and job-creation activities of immigrants," it says.

Its main finding was that immigrants, including refugees, tend to surpass Canadians at private business ownership and self-employment — proportionally, anyway.

The report drew its conclusions by contrasting immigrants who arrived in various years against "comparison groups" that included mostly Canadians, and people who moved to Canada before 1980."

How would it be any easier to provide housing, schools, medical facilities there than in major cities?

That one is easier to answer. With Newfoundlands population stalled or shrinking, there are more available living spaces, school spots, and instead of closing medical facilities, these facilities can provide services for this new population

This province is becoming increasingly concerned about bankruptcy. How would dumping a load of dependent people into that situation help?

Once these people are up and on their feet, they cease being dependent and start being productive member of society, something Newfoundland is in desperate need of

How would a relatively large number of people with vastly different cultures, customs, and practices be accepted in comparatively small municipalities? People tend to resent they accustomed ways of life being disrupted/destroyed.

Well, I guess they would rather be bankrupt then.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Its main finding was that immigrants, including refugees, tend to surpass Canadians at private business ownership and self-employment — proportionally, anyway.

Even a resourceful person needs opportunity.  If immigrants tend to wind up in major population centres and immigrants tend to do well for themselves, I suppose the latter is related to the former.

 

[Altair]

>Its main finding was that immigrants, including refugees, tend to surpass Canadians at private business ownership and self-employment — proportionally, anyway.

Even a resourceful person needs opportunity.  If immigrants tend to wind up in major population centres and immigrants tend to do well for themselves, I suppose the latter is related to the former.

Well, Newfoundland needs to change its motto to the land of opportunity then, so when new immigrants land there, they will be in the new found land of opportunity.

 

[Loachman]

Naturally, however, I do trust that these refugees are pretty resourceful.  https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/22/immigrants-canadians-business-statistics-canada_n_9519690.html

Some are. Some, not so much.

The Syrian family next door to me are in the former group. The father and two oldest sons are working, and those two sons plus the other children at school are speaking passable English after being here for a couple of years. The youngest children cannot, yet. The father can get by, with difficulty.

Their jobs are low-paying and unskilled, but they support the family and will enable the younger children to get better educations and do well.

They were privately sponsored, and have been very well supported by their sponsors. They still receive a fair amount, but that is largely social interaction from their sponsors/now friends.

They are a good family, very happy and grateful to be here, are determined not to be a burden, and want to pay back in any way that they can.

And, from time-to-time, they feed me.

I have read numerous tales of others, government-sponsored, who have been essentially left to fend for themselves after the support period ended (one year, if I remember).

It's not easy to be "resourceful" when one does not know the language and cannot communicate, when one does not know the laws and customs, and when one has little financial or social support.

"The StatsCan report, which was compiled in partnership with researchers at UBC and the Institute for Research in Public Policy, is the first to address "business ownership and job-creation activities of immigrants," it says.

Its main finding was that immigrants, including refugees, tend to surpass Canadians at private business ownership and self-employment — proportionally, anyway.

Yes, generally out of sheer need plus no background in the host culture that would enable them to find more traditional employment, coupled with some imagination, a particular talent or skill, a hospitable environment, above-average drive, and a fair amount of good fortune in many cases. How many Nigerian restaurants can Newfoundland support? Vietnamese restaurants sprang up all over Canada following their arrival. I quickly became addicted. Most of the owners (generally a couple, with one cooking and the other serving, sometimes aided by older children) spoke fairly good to excellent English or French when they arrived. I found another excellent one in Louisville Kentucky in the early nineties. Dinner was often accompanied by some fascinating and educational conversations.

I found an Afghan restaurant in Downsview near the former base a year or two ago, adjacent to a Vietnamese restaurant that I frequented while at LFCA HQ, and had a hard time deciding (I opted for the Afghan restaurant, and would definitely eat there again).

Old joke: How does one find a doctor in Toronto? Call a cab/order a pizza.

Success/self-sufficiency does not come easily, can take years, and is never guaranteed.

There is always the option of crime, though. We have such wonderful diversity in gangs now in many areas, now.

Have you ever lived in a non-English-speaking country? How well do you think that you would do in one? How would you survive?

With Newfoundlands population stalled or shrinking, there are more available living spaces, school spots, and instead of closing medical facilities, these facilities can provide services for this new population

And why is the population stalled or shrinking? Reduced services, increased taxation, unwillingness of businesses to undertake investment perceived as risky, and inability to attract and/or retain educated/trained talented people who could find better employment in cheaper, better-served, and more desirable areas (the latter almost seems like the current situation in the CF).

How are unqualified people who cannot communicate adequately and do not understand their host society going to (someday) pay for these services with basic labour/service jobs, and who, with a stalled or shrinking population, is going to employ them/support their businesses/eat at their restaurants?

Who pays for their needs until they find "success", or if they don't?

And, if they do, what's to stop them from also leaving for better places?

Toronto is at its limit. How many can Newfoundland and Labrador, with fewer resources, support?

Well, I guess they would rather be bankrupt then.

People are not happy when made to feel like strangers in their own land. Resentment of excessive uncontrolled immigration is building in Great Britain and Europe because of that. A population can only absorb so many so quickly before problems, up to and including violent backlash, occur.

John Tory must be a complete idiot, though, if he cannot figure out how to solve this simple little puzzle.

Perhaps you should seek his job in the next Toronto election.

Or seek election in Newfoundland and Labrador, where you can restyle it as you just suggested, thereby curing all of its ills.

 

[Altair]

Some are. Some, not so much.

The Syrian family next door to me are in the former group. The father and two oldest sons are working, and those two sons plus the other children at school are speaking passable English after being here for a couple of years. The youngest children cannot, yet. The father can get by, with difficulty.

Their jobs are low-paying and unskilled, but they support the family and will enable the younger children to get better educations and do well.

They were privately sponsored, and have been very well supported by their sponsors. They still receive a fair amount, but that is largely social interaction from their sponsors/now friends.

They are a good family, very happy and grateful to be here, are determined not to be a burden, and want to pay back in any way that they can.

And, from time-to-time, they feed me.

I have read numerous tales of others, government-sponsored, who have been essentially left to fend for themselves after the support period ended (one year, if I remember).

It's not easy to be "resourceful" when one does not know the language and cannot communicate, when one does not know the laws and customs, and when one has little financial or social support.

Yes, generally out of sheer need plus no background in the host culture that would enable them to find more traditional employment, coupled with some imagination, a particular talent or skill, a hospitable environment, above-average drive, and a fair amount of good fortune in many cases. How many Nigerian restaurants can Newfoundland support? Vietnamese restaurants sprang up all over Canada following their arrival. I quickly became addicted. Most of the owners (generally a couple, with one cooking and the other serving, sometimes aided by older children) spoke fairly good to excellent English or French when they arrived. I found another excellent one in Louisville Kentucky in the early nineties. Dinner was often accompanied by some fascinating and educational conversations.

I found an Afghan restaurant in Downsview near the former base a year or two ago, adjacent to a Vietnamese restaurant that I frequented while at LFCA HQ, and had a hard time deciding (I opted for the Afghan restaurant, and would definitely eat there again).

Old joke: How does one find a doctor in Toronto? Call a cab/order a pizza.

Success/self-sufficiency does not come easily, can take years, and is never guaranteed.

There is always the option of crime, though. We have such wonderful diversity in gangs now in many areas, now.

Have you ever lived in a non-English-speaking country? How well do you think that you would do in one? How would you survive?

And why is the population stalled or shrinking? Reduced services, increased taxation, unwillingness of businesses to undertake investment perceived as risky, and inability to attract and/or retain educated/trained talented people who could find better employment in cheaper, better-served, and more desirable areas (the latter almost seems like the current situation in the CF).

How are unqualified people who cannot communicate adequately and do not understand their host society going to (someday) pay for these services with basic labour/service jobs, and who, with a stalled or shrinking population, is going to employ them/support their businesses/eat at their restaurants?

Who pays for their needs until they find "success", or if they don't?

And, if they do, what's to stop them from also leaving for better places?

Toronto is at its limit. How many can Newfoundland and Labrador, with fewer resources, support?

People are not happy when made to feel like strangers in their own land. Resentment of excessive uncontrolled immigration is building in Great Britain and Europe because of that. A population can only absorb so many so quickly before problems, up to and including violent backlash, occur.

John Tory must be a complete idiot, though, if he cannot figure out how to solve this simple little puzzle.

Perhaps you should seek his job in the next Toronto election.

Or seek election in Newfoundland and Labrador, where you can restyle it as you just suggested, thereby curing all of its ills.

Serving members cannot run for office, you know that.

 

[Loachman]

Yes, but you could get out.

You'd make more money as Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador.

And you have all of the answers to their problems.

They'd love you.

 

[Altair]

Yes, but you could get out.

You'd make more money as Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador.

And you have all of the answers to their problems.

They'd love you.

Fair enough.

I do plan to enter politics when I get out, at the local level anyways, but I'll probably just stick to Quebec.