Identifying old stores in the RQ

[Spooks]

So we were clearing out boxes of dust collectors in the RQ and came across a triwall labeled 'Riot Helmets' with no NSN. I figure there could be someone that could help identify it.

The helmet looks like our (now older) helmets we just switched from except the back is very vertical rather than sloped. The brim seems very American except the suspension system's NSN says it's ours. It has (what feels like) a ballistic skirt to go around the back of the neck so that hints to me it's a Chimo's helmet or breaching perhaps.

Anyone have idea? The whole lot of them seem unused and just dusty. We are trying to determine to whom they should go to if not the depot.

Thanks.

 

[NavyShooter]

Shoot me an email at work - Bradley dot Browne at the forces stuff, and I'll see what I can dig up for you. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Theres a NSN on the helmet liner band. CGCS should list associated items, although not sure if it does it for obsolete kit.

 

[NavyShooter]

I'm leaning towards a riot control helmet of some sort rather than EOD/breaching or something like that.

Doing some digging.

NS

 

[NavyShooter]

Try 4240-21-AAB-0853

NS

 

[Kat Stevens]

They came out with these when we switched over from the old steel tortoise to the gen 1 Kevlar because the godawful spring tension visors wouldn’t fit. Does the army not do IS training any more? It was some of the most fun you could have, gas guns, water canons, shield and baton. Good times.

 

[MJP]

They came out with these when we switched over from the old steel tortoise to the gen 1 Kevlar because the godawful spring tension visors wouldn’t fit. Does the army not do IS training any more? It was some of the most fun you could have, gas guns, water canons, shield and baton. Good times.

No, as the army realized that it really isn't their job.  No point in training for something that we don't do.  Domestically this is a LEO task and using the CAF against Canadians is the last last resort.

Not saying the training isn't cool, but I think politically, legally and optics wise it isn't something that will be authorized on any sort of regular basis so no point in training and holding stock.

 

[NavyShooter]

Agreed - this is probably way beyond the intent of 'aid to civil power'

I got to watch some Ottawa Police guys practicing their drills at Connaught once.  It was interesting - their 'close order drill' takes a lot of training to get right.

NS

 

[Blackadder1916]

Agreed - this is probably way beyond the intent of 'aid to civil power'

Actually, it is exactly the intent of "aid to civil power".

Section 277 of the National Defence Act provides:

"277. Where a riot or disturbance occurs or is considered as likely to occur, the attorney general of the province in which the place where the riot or disturbance occurs or is considered as likely to occur is situated, on the initiative of the attorney general or on the receipt of notification from a judge of a superior, county or district court having jurisdiction in the place that the services of the Canadian Forces are required in aid of the civil power, may, by requisition in writing addressed to the Chief of the Defence Staff, require the Canadian Forces, or such part thereof as the Chief of the Defence Staff or such officer as the Chief of the Defence Staff may designate considers necessary, to be called out on service in aid of the civil power."

All that other stuff the CAF does, filling sand bags, fighting fires, shovelling snow . . .  that's "assistance to civil authorities"

http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-eng.html?lang=eng&i=1&index=alt&srchtxt=MILITARY%20AID%20CIVIL%20AUTHORITIES

In Canada, there is a distinction made between "aid to the civil power" and "assistance to civil authorities". The former term refers to military aid provided to the provincial police forces to restore and maintain law and order. The latter term encompasses all other forms of assistance the military gives to the civil community. Examples include search and rescue operations, counter-terrorism response, emergencies (natural and man-induced), fisheries and border protection, humanitarian assistance, counter-drug operations, arms smuggling, illegal immigrants, environmental surveillance and special events.

Back in the day, that was one of the fun things to do on JLC.  It was the add-on to the course to qualify for "Base Defence Force".

 

[Kat Stevens]

I guess those two prison riots in the Fraser Valley that we responded to in the 80s are just figments of my imagination.

 

[211RadOp]

Or Kingston Pen in '71.

 

[blacktriangle]

Use local police, RCMP, corrections, whatever. The military shouldn't be used against citizens (inmates or other) unless it's a last resort. MJP said it best.

 

[MJP]

I guess those two prison riots in the Fraser Valley that we responded to in the 80s are just figments of my imagination.

No one said your experiences weren't valid or didn't happen.  We are 30+ years removed from that era, things change.

No one has said we wouldn't do in the future either.  However the chances are between slim and none so there is no point in holding that sort of kit or to conduct that sort of training.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Anyways. These were bought for riot control trg when tho old clip on visors would not fit the new Kevlar pisspot.

 

[Cloud Cover]

True about that. The days when only the army could bring mass of numbers and specialized equipment to control, contain civil unrest are waning. After Oka and Williams lake, it isn't palatable or useful given the decades it takes to regain trust.

 

[NavyShooter]

I stand corrected ... I have learned!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Walking through the depot in Shilo came across stacks of WWII british pattern petrol tins. I also remember going to the depot in Chilliwack, being told there are no desks in the system, yet a corner of the warehouse was stacked full of wooden ones, I said what about these? They said, oh no you can't have those, they are "obsolete".
You be surprised how much old equipment lurks in the system.

 

[Kirkhill]

Use local police, RCMP, corrections, whatever. The military shouldn't be used against citizens (inmates or other) unless it's a last resort. MJP said it best.

Not an incorrect statement. 

But the Army is the Government's last resort. 

And better the Government let the Army figure out how to dismantle a riot with minimal skull cracking than having it try the tactics of Amritsar.

 

[dapaterson]

You be surprised how much old equipment lurks in the system.

If you have a 1950s vintage CAF warship, we still have spares, new in the box.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Use local police, RCMP, corrections, whatever. The military shouldn't be used against citizens (inmates or other) unless it's a last resort. MJP said it best.

'Citizens' who escalate the level of force beyond the capabilities of the civilian authorities to deal with the situation safely and successfully deserve to be landed on by a military force with enough of the right power and training to sort them out, matching force to force.

Hence the reason that Aid the the Civil Power/ Authourity one of our ongoing mandates, and the reason why we still need a wide range of tools and training to tailor our response to any given situation.