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How good is our training?

Guess I should have said  that they seem to recieve LONGER training, dont know if its better, but my BMQ course is 4 weeks long. From what Ive heard the reg force has a 12 week course and I dont understand how reservists can be trained to the same standard.  Now the 10 week BMQ is not Just BMQ but also SQ.( In BC anyways) Im really just talking about my own situation, and im not military police , but reserve infantry.

 
Back to snipers...From the ones I have met and talked to police and military, and what I have read there is allot more then just looking for target, and hiding. For an interesting read: http://www.snipercountry.com/

Sorta like bagpipes if you like them you like them...if yah don't yah don't.
Some people join the Army to cook.  ;)

Back too topic...
Also I'm confused by the diffrences in training times between Regs and Reserves...how can they be the same if the amount of time is different?  Also how different are the two sets of training?

Cheers!
P.
 
Back to the training side of things , I personally cant imagine that the Canadian reserves are as well trained as the US reserves.

Having worked with the U.S. Army Reserve and the National Guard I can say that we are better trained and seem to care more about what we do...But then I realize that our army isn't what it used to be either...
 
My experience working with Americans comes from participating in several Ex Final Drive's.  This is the final exercise for the students that are learning to be staff officers at the staff college in Kingston.  The students run a divisional HQ for several days, and they require support from a few int ops to provide them with an ICAC (intelligence collection and analysis centre).

I worked with several American students on these courses, and they were all astonished that 2 or 3 reservist int ops could function as an entire ICAC.  In American HQ's, they were used to seeing separate and dedicated orbat analysts, manoeuvre analysts, terrain analysts, map markers, message handlers, etc.  The flexibility, adaptability, and capability of Canadian int ops really impressed them.  (Age old story of Canadian soldiers being jack of all trades because we don't have enough people.)

I also worked with a couple of African officers on these courses, and those guys were astonished that an NCO could work intelligently and independently without being supervised by an officer.  One of them got really pissed at me when he told me to get him a coffee, and I told him where the coffee pot was.  (He was used to dealing with a different calibre of NCO...)
 
AI said:
nope, no snipers in the reserves.

Actually, my unit and the Lorne Scots both have a sniper tasking on paper, we just don't have anyone trained to fill them :)  so there are openings for snipers in the reserves, but no snipers.


As for the difference in training between american reserves and our own....my unit sent a full platoon down to Ft. Blanding in Florida recently to work as part of a US National Guard company.  I truly enjoyed my stay, and liked the American soldiers, but was not very impressed by their level of skill.  At the same time, I think I must have heard the phrase "you guys should be rangers" at least twice a day during our stay there.  We seemed to impress the heck out of them with everything we did, even with such simple things as weapons handling drills.  One of the first things we did there...we used the American M4 carbines with the new CCO sights to shoot their version of the PWT and qualified about 70% of our troops on the first shoot even though it was our first time using the weapon/sight, whereas the Americans who have been using them for months only qualified about 50%.  Their OC was just amazed by that.  So yes, I'd say our reserves are a bit better than theirs.
 
48Highlander said:
So yes, I'd say our reserves are a bit better than theirs.

I didnt mean to start a pissing contest. I'm sure they have some fine soldiers in their reserve system. I just didnt like the comment taking credit away from our guys. They may lack in certain areas but I think pound for pound between Iraq and Afghan they have more experienced operators than we do. Training well is one thing being in the shit is another Im sure.

:cdn: I love my country but Texas has been my home away from home for many years.
 
I believe that B Coy Canadian Scottish, and the Rocky Mountain Rangers have snipers. So it would make sense for other units to have them as well.

 
Perhaps this is a matter of reg force snipers leaving and joining the reserves. Then giving them this designation allows them to upkeep their skills. I cant see it being a trade you apply for when you talk to the recruiter at a reserve unit. Maybe if you have a civilian qual as well. Like police sniper who is a reservist
 
Our reservists, at basic tasks, may indeed be better than the average National Guard soldier is doint the same tasks.  But, let's take a National Guard unit, and compare that unit with one of ours.  Ther, simply, is no comparison.  The NG unit is certainly equipped with the same equipment as the regular force, maybe not with the latest bells and whistles, but still...

The LdSH compete every year for the CanAm cup, competing against a NG unit equipped with M1 tanks.  In the latest competition, the Straths lost.  Yes, the M1 is newer, but, in theory, the Straths are much better trained, right?  Well, a few years ago, before all the ammo cuts and training money cuts, yes.  Nowadays, well, the results speak for themselves.
 
not true, there are snipers in the reserves.  the rsm of the essex and kent scottish is a sniper.  and the previous rsm was pathfinder/ranger/ well he had a lot of bells and whistles...  i am not sure if they used to be reg though.. now i am curious
 
I'll start another thread just in case this is too buried for those who might know to find, and answer.

Cheers!
P.
 
I have to agree with A. White.  I suspect the most experienced, best trained troops in the world, whether reserve or regular force, are deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Most are American or British, but not all.  I read an interesting blurb this morning about Fijian soldiers guarding convoys in Iraq.  

The contrast between US Guard/Reserve forces and CF Reserves is one of large army/small army.  In the normal course of events, a small professional army will be better trained and more capable on a soldier by soldier comparison.  This is a natural result of smaller forces, with less specialization and less of much of the nonsense and folderol that goes along with a large army.

American Guard/Reserve units have spent most of the last thirty years responding to domestic disasters.  The CF spent a lot of that time doing peacekeeping activities in lots of godforsaken spots.  This has to have had an effect on the Reserves, whether those units were posted abroad or just absorbed veterans into their ranks.

The US Army is revising almost all current training in light of events in Iraq.  Soldiers in transport and other support units are going to receive more training in battle scenarios.  This is not new.  We had to learn the same lessons in Vietnam.  Armies have been re-learning similar lessons since someone began recording history.

But the most valuable asset any US commander will have for some years is a solid cadre of combat veterans -- and it doesn't look like those will be in short supply.

My hat is off to the CF.  Canadian military forces have always performed well, in many difficult situations.  The best thing, in my opinion, for the future CF would be if a brigade or two were serving right now in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But that's just my thinking.  :)
 
Sorta back to the training topic....

    I have been thinking about joining up, and I've talked to a few people, asked their opinions and have come to form an idea as the training and the amount of training that our guys get, specifically time at the range.  I just want to verify this thought.

If in the case that I went into the INF, Full time Reg Force, how much time do I actually get on the range?  As my job would be "to close and destroy the enemy", would being able to fire my weapon be of utmost priority?

When I spoke to a few people who are in the Reserves, and one in the Reg Force, who said that they don't get any time on the range anymore.  The Reservist told me that they MAYBE get to do live fire training once a year, and even then don't get to fire off more than 60 rounds each?  I shoot at least 60 rounds when I go to the range, and I go out at least each weekend with nice weather.  Tell me I don't get more shooting pratice than my country's armed forces do?

Has there been some exaggeration here?  How often do you guys get to practice?
 
Bitterman, in response to your queries:
In the reserve world, typically once you are in your unit, you may get out to do live fire once or twice a year (at least in my experience). However, on your courses (BMQ, SQ, DP1A, DP2A) you will get expend a bit more ammo in a period of about 4-5 months training (time it takes to complete aformentioned courses).

However, live fire training aside, you get to do other things that will increase your marksmenship talent within your unit. Our unit ran a "Shoot for life" program, where we spent a months worth of parade nights practicing marksmenship principles and doing other things. We broke it down to the basics, and had all of our positions corrected by experienced NCO's. They even put dimes on top of our front site while we were in the prone, and we had contests to see what all could be done without knocking off the dime (ie: close eyes, rifle down, rifle up, site still in alignment?). And depending on your unit, you may or may not to spend a fair amount of time in your Armouries SAT trainer (which is essentially a video-target simulator where we use our actual weapons, hooked up with lasers). It's no replacement for actual live fire, but it is a fairly easy and economical way to increase your marksmenship skills for when you do actually make it to the range. I know I learned a lot from my instructors during this time....
 
I was wondering the same thing, and the answer / advice  I got was keep up your practice after we teach you how to shoot the way you are suppost to, and undo any bad habits you have taught yourself before joining.   Other then that no info on how much practice we can get on legal military ranges...as the person I asked is retired, and out of the loop abit.

Now the problem is the weapon we are issued isn't exacly legal to drive down to your local Canadian rifle range.
And there isn't much in the 'legal to own group' that even comes close to the military rifles.

I know if I get in and if I had the chance I would like to practice everyday, as I want to be the best I can be in that role.  
So I'm also interested in finding out how much pratice we can expect to get, and how some members deal with this.

Cheers!
P.
 
Get trained by a civie weapons instructor, get a licence, and go buy yourself an Armalite(yup they are legal to own), then feel free to spend alot of money on an Elcan sight and ammo. A half dozen trigger group parts and a modification to the bolt carrier are all that seperates a C-7 from a modern AR-15. If you can shoot one you can shoot the other. Or relax and take your couple grand to mexico for a month. 

http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~jhipwell/

Yeah yeah, the C-7 is a far better weapon.....
but then why are all the parts interchangeable with an AR?
 
I have another question regarding training, however it is slightly off topic to the direction this thread has taken...however, I was wondering how does the training for a CF pilot (hercules or other similar planes, not fighter pilots) compare to airliner training, how well do we train our pilots compared to Air Canada and the like?
 
I don't know if they still wear Brit DPU in Gagetown, but our guys in 1 never wear it, although they may occasionally switch up cam while on deployment. Never heard of them doing it lately though.
 
The Armalite is restricted.
http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/owners_users/fact_sheets/r&p.asp

Does the Army train and issue you a restricted firearms licence?

BTW: I still don't know why the Dragonov sniper rifle is Prohibited, as its's clip is only 10 rnd, is a semi auto, and has a long barrel.  The government has not answerd my repeated questions about it.

Cheers!
P.
 
Being restricted doesn't mean your not allowed to buy it or use it. You do however need to apply for a non-restricted AND restricted licence.

The army doesn't give you any sort of licence for firearms, they do train you how to use a host of different weapons.

I'm not that current on the laws. I remember a while ago the government was trying to ban  weapons with a "military type action". (not sure how far that went).  Some bolt action rifles have a military type action so they would in essence be banned as well. (as told to me by the game wardens)

The Dragonov was made from the ground up as a sniper rifle, you don't get much more "military" than that. Sometimes to be black listed all a firearm needs is a bad name or history. (Rugar mini-14)
 
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