Hockey Canada in the Government Crosshairs

[lenaitch]

Actually, you probably need a team who doesn't care about hockey at all, but who are objective and are experts at building good governance frameworks for not-for-profit societies.

The less objective you are, the less useful you will be to this gigantic cess pit IMHO.

I think you do need leaders who are passionate about the entity they are leading., most particularly in a not-for-profit environment. those are the folks who have to champion the organization, attract sponsors, government support, etc. Simply having 'governance nerds' might result in a very well run but stagnant organization. Besides, there is the whole matter of elections and how its constitution is written.

My former bargaining unit went through a crisis of governance. It went through a Board housecleaning and hired consultants to help them analyzing and improving the governance; I think it was a law firm that had a specialty in the area.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I think you do need leaders who are passionate about the entity they are leading., most particularly in a not-for-profit environment. those are the folks who have to champion the organization, attract sponsors, government support, etc. Simply having 'governance nerds' might result in a very well run but stagnant organization. Besides, there is the whole matter of elections and how its constitution is written.

My former bargaining unit went through a crisis of governance. It went through a Board housecleaning and hired consultants to help them analyzing and improving the governance; I think it was a law firm that had a specialty in the area.

Before an organisation can move forward, it needs to be well run. Put the governance expert in to clean up and get Hockey Canada running well, then bring the passionate folks in gradually.

 

[lenaitch]

Before an organisation can move forward, it needs to be well run. Put the governance expert in to clean up and get Hockey Canada running well, then bring the passionate folks in gradually.

If you can. As far as I understand it, the Board is elected by the their provincial organizations. Hopefully, the membership, executive or delegates of these organizations (whoever does the voting) sees the need for renewal.

I assume HC is incorporated under the federal Corporations Act. A lot depends on the legislation (which I'm not completely familiar with) and their Letters of Incorporation/Letters Patent. Not everything can be made better by external intervention, particularly from a government, no matter hwo well intentioned.

 

[KevinB]

I coached spring hockey last year. Which was 08-10 birth years.
I had 8 boys 9 girl skaters and a female goalie. It was the most cohesive team I’ve ever had. One parental issue due to the mixed locker room that wanted to separate the kids.
I shut them down and told the mother her son could change in the bathroom if she wanted him separate.
I had a simple no bras and no underwear policy - so a shirt and pants where the lowest level of undress. Given most jock systems for both man and woman are now a spandex pant there was no reason for anything to be an issue.

Respect and understanding start at home, but coaches at young levels can ensure that gets pushed and love of the game means ensuring sportsmanship, respect and ethical behavior is deeply rooted.

 

[OldSolduer]

I coached spring hockey last year. Which was 08-10 birth years.
I had 8 boys 9 girl skaters and a female goalie. It was the most cohesive team I’ve ever had. One parental issue due to the mixed locker room that wanted to separate the kids.
I shut them down and told the mother her son could change in the bathroom if she wanted him separate.
I had a simple no bras and no underwear policy - so a shirt and pants where the lowest level of undress. Given most jock systems for both man and woman are now a spandex pant there was no reason for anything to be an issue.

Respect and understanding start at home, but coaches at young levels can ensure that gets pushed and love of the game means ensuring sportsmanship, respect and ethical behavior is deeply rooted.

Good job - and some kids need that guidance because they don't get it at home.

 

[KevinB]

Good job - and some kids need that guidance because they don't get it at home.

Yeah unfortunately some coaches don’t always give good guidance.

Last season a player was ejected from the League, they had already a reputation as an issue - they crossed check one of my female players from behind and then hit her as she went to get up. She punched him back and then my son decked him when he went to hit her with his stick. We got two majors and they got a major misconduct (ejection) and the League suspended the player in question.

The ejected player has a pretty poor home life from all accounts, but his coach did nothing to stop the aggression from being used poorly, as this wasn’t an isolated act. I have had sit downs outside of practice/game times with players and their families to discuss both on and off ice conduct. I have zero qualms with either benching a player or kicking them off my team (and going to the League and USA Hockey for a season or longer ban) if the player isn’t following our code of conduct.

Hockey isn’t a cheap sport, and it’s really unfortunate for multiple reasons when players are kicked out - because I think it is a fantastic team sport that CAN really be used to teach controlled aggression, and sportsmanship, respect etc.

The failure (and it seems repeated failure) in Hockey Canada seems to be a failure of parents, coaches and the players. I’m not sure how to fix competitive sports in our society without fixing larger societal issues, which means I place a lot of blame on the coaches and parents for not nipping issues in the bud that allowed for those attitudes to become prevalent in players.

In my years playing of Hockey in Canada in the 70’s and 80’s I cannot recall a coach that would have put up with that crap - and have no idea how it got this bad.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I coached spring hockey last year. Which was 08-10 birth years.
I had 8 boys 9 girl skaters and a female goalie. It was the most cohesive team I’ve ever had. One parental issue due to the mixed locker room that wanted to separate the kids.
I shut them down and told the mother her son could change in the bathroom if she wanted him separate.
I had a simple no bras and no underwear policy - so a shirt and pants where the lowest level of undress. Given most jock systems for both man and woman are now a spandex pant there was no reason for anything to be an issue.

Respect and understanding start at home, but coaches at young levels can ensure that gets pushed and love of the game means ensuring sportsmanship, respect and ethical behavior is deeply rooted.

Good for you!

Question: Did you get any formal training as a coach?

I know a guy who was/is a swimming coach. He had been on an Olympic swimming path then changed course and is now running a business. He told me about the differences in approach between sports regarding coach training.

Apparently, swimming coaches are the only ones who have to be trained before getting a coaching job. Hockey, soccer, basketball, lacrosse (my sport) etc all usually go with 'parents of the kids playing'.

He had some interesting observations about the differences in player injury rates, success rates, incidences of sexual assault etc as a consequence of these differences in coach selection and training. Untrained coaches do a worse job, no surprise.

Again, I have no direct knowledge apart from my own experiences playing Lacrosse where the coaches were parents, so found that interesting...

 

[KevinB]

Good for you!

Question: Did you get any formal training as a coach?

I know a guy who was/is a swimming coach. He had been on an Olympic swimming path then changed course and is now running a business. He told me about the differences in approach between sports regarding coach training.

Apparently, swimming coaches are the only ones who have to be trained before getting a coaching job. Hockey, soccer, basketball, lacrosse (my sport) etc all usually go with 'parents of the kids playing'.

He had some interesting observations about the differences in player injury rates, success rates, incidences of sexual assault etc as a consequence of these differences in coach selection and training. Untrained coaches do a worse job, no surprise.

Again, I have no direct knowledge apart from my own experiences playing Lacrosse where the coaches were parents, so found that interesting...

Yes.
USA Hockey has the coach CEP level system. You cannot be on the bench without at least a L1 CEP. Every year one needs to do continuing education (even if one doesn’t advance in levels).
Also coaches need to conduct SafeSport Training, have a criminal record check and conduct age specific module training.

Coaches

www.usahockey.com

 

[KevinB]

Our long term athlete development model is actually based on Hockey Canada’s program.
I’m actually shocked Hockey Canada doesn’t have a coaching system mandated like we do down here (including a clear and defined code of conduct.)

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I am soccer coaching for the 4th year (assistant). The Criminal record check is mandatory. There is supposed to be training, but it is kind of “unobtainium”, so it really is not enforced.

My soccer association is kind of falling apart. It gets little to no support from my municipality so the better players migrate to associations with better playing fields (which is everyone else in my region). That robs the association of both potential volunteers, coaches and fund raising potential, so the whole thing becomes a negative feedback loop.

There is also a troubling trend to focus most of the resources on Elite players, which is going to (already is) backfiring in that most players quit after age 12-13, if they don’t make the elite team…

 

[KevinB]

COVID hurt a lot of team sports.
Some organizations where slow to adopt DLN courses - but just as bad some have been very slow to transition back to in person courses. There is no substitute for in person training, as while Zoom meetings are better than death by power point, you don’t get the same sort of interaction and knowledge that you do in person (and in case of hockey with on ice and classroom portions).

 

[MJP]

Our long term athlete development model is actually based on Hockey Canada’s program.
I’m actually shocked Hockey Canada doesn’t have a coaching system mandated like we do down here (including a clear and defined code of conduct.)

Hockey Canada has a coaching program and most provinces either follow it or have their own. You can't be behind the bench in most places without the required crses. I would say everywhere but private leagues may have their own rules.

Crses required are low for community leagues and lower age brackets but climb as you get up there.

Here is Alberta's matrix for example

 

[OldSolduer]

I coached hockey for 1/2 season 11/12 year olds first year checking. This is where you see the finesse players get knocked around a little and drop from the game.

I quit because it wasn't the kids who were giving me issues.

Parents need to shoulder a large part of the responsibility for poor behavior by Jonny or Janey. Coaches can try to correct it but given what happened in Quebec a few years ago I think coaches are a little gun shy to discipline players.

OK in Quebec about five years ago a veteran coach "bag skated" the team for a poor performance the game prior. Parents complained, the hockey league suspended him pending investigation etc. I am not sure what the result was.

 

[Spencer100]

I coached spring hockey last year. Which was 08-10 birth years.
I had 8 boys 9 girl skaters and a female goalie. It was the most cohesive team I’ve ever had. One parental issue due to the mixed locker room that wanted to separate the kids.
I shut them down and told the mother her son could change in the bathroom if she wanted him separate.
I had a simple no bras and no underwear policy - so a shirt and pants where the lowest level of undress. Given most jock systems for both man and woman are now a spandex pant there was no reason for anything to be an issue.

Respect and understanding start at home, but coaches at young levels can ensure that gets pushed and love of the game means ensuring sportsmanship, respect and ethical behavior is deeply rooted.

You could not do that in Canada under HC rules.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Yeah unfortunately some coaches don’t always give good guidance.

Last season a player was ejected from the League, they had already a reputation as an issue - they crossed check one of my female players from behind and then hit her as she went to get up. She punched him back and then my son decked him when he went to hit her with his stick. We got two majors and they got a major misconduct (ejection) and the League suspended the player in question.

The ejected player has a pretty poor home life from all accounts, but his coach did nothing to stop the aggression from being used poorly, as this wasn’t an isolated act. I have had sit downs outside of practice/game times with players and their families to discuss both on and off ice conduct. I have zero qualms with either benching a player or kicking them off my team (and going to the League and USA Hockey for a season or longer ban) if the player isn’t following our code of conduct.

Hockey isn’t a cheap sport, and it’s really unfortunate for multiple reasons when players are kicked out - because I think it is a fantastic team sport that CAN really be used to teach controlled aggression, and sportsmanship, respect etc.

The failure (and it seems repeated failure) in Hockey Canada seems to be a failure of parents, coaches and the players. I’m not sure how to fix competitive sports in our society without fixing larger societal issues, which means I place a lot of blame on the coaches and parents for not nipping issues in the bud that allowed for those attitudes to become prevalent in players.

In my years playing of Hockey in Canada in the 70’s and 80’s I cannot recall a coach that would have put up with that crap - and have no idea how it got this bad.

Guys like YOU should be getting on the Hockey Canada board.

 

[Spencer100]

Guys like YOU should be getting on the Hockey Canada board.

I would love too.

First rule every kid under 14 plays with a cheap wood stick under $50 price.
Really grow the first Shift program, more partners than CT.
All associations will ban paid coaches under the AAA division. Including parent "gifts"
Coaches can not have side "training" businesses or development sidelines.
You play as our sex at birth (just put that to bed early) Girls can play on boys till they feel they can't in REP hockey.
Checking moved to U12......its really dumb where its at. U14 some boys are man size and some are still small etc.
I would partner with very large companies and NHL etc. to have a huge outreach into the New Canadian communities across the country. Huge focus here.
Break up the GTHL.
Develop a scholarship program and partnering program with U and Collages for CHL, Junior B, C players for post secondary ed. The US scholarship programs are almost cut off for Canadians now.
Hire a better online training company and system! (I bet there was some funny business here....)

Oh and most importantly tell Trudeau to pound salt.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

.

 

[OldSolduer]

I would love too.

First rule every kid under 14 plays with a cheap wood stick under $50 price.
Really grow the first Shift program, more partners than CT.
All associations will ban paid coaches under the AAA division. Including parent "gifts"
Coaches can not have side "training" businesses or development sidelines.
You play as our sex at birth (just put that to bed early) Girls can play on boys till they feel they can't in REP hockey.
Checking moved to U12......its really dumb where its at. U14 some boys are man size and some are still small etc.
I would partner with very large companies and NHL etc. to have a huge outreach into the New Canadian communities across the country. Huge focus here.
Break up the GTHL.
Develop a scholarship program and partnering program with U and Collages for CHL, Junior B, C players for post secondary ed. The US scholarship programs are almost cut off for Canadians now.
Hire a better online training company and system! (I bet there was some funny business here....)

Oh and most importantly tell Trudeau to pound salt.

Perhaps I am a bit slow but at what age do you propose to include full on body checks? You are correct - some kids at age 14 are man size or close while others are still on the smallish side. I have witnessed a 15 year old absolutely hammer a small 14 year old when there was no need for it - and well after the kid had passed the puck - other than the goof wanted to hit someone. IMO he should have been tossed from the game.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I think he means if you bring it in sooner the smaller (usually faster) kids learn how to avoid them.

Not learning at 14 by getting their bell rung.

 

[Spencer100]

I think he means if you bring it in sooner the smaller (usually faster) kids learn how to avoid them.

Not learning at 14 by getting their bell rung.

Yes. Checking at 12 or so. The boys are closer in size and slower too. Plus at 12 they are more "rubbery" lol.

I think the injury would be less. Plus learning at the start. I just think it would much better.

My son's U14 AAA team last year....first year of checking. At one point four kids out. One for the year. Better to see this year U15 just one broken bone so far. It was super sloppy last year at this time. Even the best kid in league (Ontario even) broke an arm last year.

It's just at the 14 and 15 year old point the kids are growing some much faster than others. An side....they started to use the shower last year. (Don't get me started on the Covid BS and showers) my son in the car says to me....Dad player X is a man he has hair on his balls. I tell that because of the difference in that age group.