Have 4 months to kill. Are there jobs starting now?

[Veteran`s son]

Recce41

I know that if I joined the Canadian Armed Forces, I would work hard to be a good soldier and be proud to wear the uniform as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces!

Also, I know that I would not have a problem getting up at 5am; it is just all the running that would be difficult.

 

[Infanteer]

Good post sergeant, the SNCO I have admired the most had the same things to say to me. I think this is an endemic that is personified by things such as SHARP, Sex Changes, and the lot. Everytime I read the Maple Leaf, I wanna puke after reading half the crap the write in there.

Now, to get this somewhere. Since you have to TI, what do you feel the causes behind these problems you have brought up. Poor selection of Recruits, Poor basic training, or just too much "bureucratization". I‘d be interested to hear what you have to say on that.

 

[Recce41]

I think it‘s all of the above. For you cannot modivate someone with out them crying. If you swear you have to apoligise. MPs have no clue about the military, etc I can go on and on.

 

[Cdn Soldier]

Recce41: Nice reply, I‘m just wondering why you didn‘t articulate something like this in the first place. As for my TI/Rank, well, that‘s not really something I feel the need to boast about as I prefer to let my posts stand, or fall, on their own merit. I will say though, that I went through basic etc back in the days when it was a daily occurance to have at least one persons kit end up out the window or thrown down the hall with the DS literally foaming at the mouth, yelling and screaming about what a piece of s**t they were, got marched into cells on Friday because my haircut wasn‘t "to standard" etc etc. Did these instances make me a better soldier? I don‘t think so, in fact the one DS who was the most effective stressor on any of my courses was the quiet, methodical one. You never knew what he was up to and would magically appear at the most inopportune time. Unfortunately the "yelling and screaming" example made too many of my peers decide that this style was the only appropriate one in all circumstances and makes me wonder if at least some of what we‘ve gone through isn‘t a back-lash against this ill-informed leadership mentality.

Like it or not, todays recruits are totally different beasts than when we went through. As you‘ve pointed out there is a host of problems even prior to their arriving at the CFRC which we end up dealing with and the changes to "low stress/no stress" in the initial stages of training have only exasperated the situation. As you know we‘re ending up with folks coming out the pipe at our end who can‘t even deal with the day to day stresses life presents them (I had one guy get stress leave because his girlfriend left him...), let alone the incidents you‘ve refered to. The decision we need to make on our end is to determine how we want to deal with what we get. We can maintain the status quo and hope that the recruiting system starts producing what we used to get, or we can make some minor, yet crucial mods to the way we do business to make staying in more attractive to todays youth. For instance, what is the requirement for 5 roll-calls a day as several Bn/Regts I know do? If the Sect Comd can‘t be relied upon to make sure all his/her troopies do the required work per day, the Sect Comd should be getting fired. Instead we treat everyone like kids because someone, sometime slipped off early. Of course, getting back to enforcing basic standards and discipline wouldn‘t hurt much either. Gen MacKenzie hit the nail on the head, Marin didn‘t.

Anyways, enough rambling and of course, everything said here is IMHO.

 

[Illucigen]

Alright, well IMHO,

Well said everyone.

For me, I beleive the most important thing any recruiter should be looking for in any new fresh-faced possible recruit is the evidence of drive and determination, and the reasons behind the recruitment application..

First things first, recruiting officers should not be idiots. Most of them arent. Mine was quite intelligent. She asked intelligent, open-ended questions, and was obviously probing for things, and did not let open answers fly.

Why? In an age where finances are excessively tight, training space (especially at the bottom end of the spectrum) is excessively tight, and where morale amongst the most senior of soldiers is that people don‘t give a **** anymore... I think we have to ensure we are getting people with the dedication, and the drive to succeed in the military.

Frankly, I am noticing as I progress (and I will admit I am very very junior), but even with respect to what I have learned from very SrNCO‘s, that we do not have the ability to "modify" personalities in the forces any more. While this was once true in many occupations before, where employees were told to shape up or ship out, this no longer happens in teh civie world nor in the military, due to human rights protection and lawsuits.

All this means that employers (and DND is an employer, lets remember) must look to get the best candidate in, not constatnly waste resources doing "acid tests". Does this mean we may eliminate some potentially amazing individuals from the ranks? Absolutely! But we must play the odds.

Someone who clearly has no ambition to finish school, who has no ambiition period, but rather to learn to fire a gun and get a job for a period of time is not going to be dedicated to improving themself. Or perhaps they are. It would really depend on other indicators.

Im tired of hearing of people joining up because mommy and daddy wanted them too, or it was the only job that would accept a grade 10 education.

The forces can no longer boot people into shape, it can only waste resources on you until you quit, or boot you out when the red tape breaks.

I see the point of differences between the worlds. But you should truly have researched your decision to join. Noone expects it to be easy, and I doubt many have a firm grasp of what it really is to be military. But in this age of employment competitveness, internet, **** this forum.. the answers are out there...

As for what one can accomplish under pressure.. well some may find the forces are a perfect fit. But my question to you is.. should that space in BMT go to someone who wants to "fill time" or someone who is already in love with the military before they join, and has proven themself in the past.?

 

[greeves]

I think it‘s fairly hard to predict how people are going to react when taken from a civvie environment and put into the rigid structure of a military one. I‘ve seen people who were dog-****s on civvie street thrive in basic training. I‘ve seen the opposite happen as well. However, the purpose of the infantry is to "Close with and destroy the enemy". I‘m sure the other combat arms trades have similar "mottos"... Ultimately, that is what we are training people to do so I think that a little "hardness" at the basic training level is vital to produce soldiers that are effective in combat - if we lose a few along the way, so be it.

 

[CyAnide]

I guess I gave a sh|t oppinion of myself back there with no real explinations on my behalf. Im not trying to change the view of me in your eyes because in reality you people dont know me other than the few words I have to say about myself. Well I am a lazy civilian, I wont deny that and I love to sleep but I have reasons for fuc]{ing up school. I dont remember the month but neer the start of my school year I twisted my ankle witch automatically took 10 days out of my school year and a little later in the winter I soaked my shoes walking to school and cought the flu a few days after. Also had a cold a bit later and the rest of the days I selpt in. Yes thats bad I know, well I had a doctors note for the foot and the vice principal saw it but the other days I was blue were unacounted for because my moms a nurse so I got some home medicine. Now that was last semester and it accounted for a good 20 days off school. This semester I actually got lazy with 3 absences of the bat that brought the vice principals eyes on me. With having that and what I had before she decided to get rid of me. Now normally she couldn‘t do so but because I switched from a Catholic school to public school and gave her the reason that I switched was because I didnt like my ol school she decided to put me on a contract and Im not making one lie here that that contract was total BS.

Also a reason for me asking if I can do the training in 4 months is because when 2 recruiters came to our school 2 years ago they told me and others that training could be accomplished over the summer or 8 weeks. I belive it was the 2nd Artillery that a person above mentioned. They were there for 1 day and gave me a quick speech during my lunch break so I didnt hear much and its the reason I turned to this message board. After all I am underweight and I wanna be infromed before I decide to make a decision. And why Im underweight.. Well I dont know I eat a lot and back in 99 I was one of the fattest kids in class but than the height took over and I wasnt able to catch up with the weight fast enough.

As for my reasons for joining the Army.. Well theres a lot more than free education, money and something to take my time off my hands. I want to improve my physical condition, although now that I hear that I have to run 10km in 50 minutes I feel that I will have to improve upon that aspect myself, I feel that it gives people one reason to stay in the army. If one as scrony as me decides to set himself a goal of that sort it would definately incourage me to stay. Propobly people of my quality wouldnt join but I have other reasons Id prefer not to mention.

As for myself now and after reading your posts especially the Sgt‘s I belive that the Army should be taken more seriously. I myself am a major gamer, I even own my own online gaming clan. It has 80 members currently and I know why devotion is needed, my clan is 1 and a half month old and in this time we recruited around 250 members and for every 4 that we recruit 3 are disabled because of eighter inapropriate recruitment or lazyness. More less most of those who we disable also ask lots of annoying questions like me here and well.. Its not the same at all but in a tiny perspective it somewhat applys to the same issue.

If your curious enough to look at it theres a link here.


Having said that about myself I have a few more comments such as is it true that the Army doesnt use force in recruitment no more..? Im one of those people who see the army recruitment close too that of the movie "Full Metal Jacket" where the DS tares his troops down and rebuilds them.

Other than that I have an oppinion on the troops that people recruit and their manner. If the physical test of 10km is true, than the people who decide to join the army who were involved in school sports would be the problem that Sgt is talking about. In my oppinion they can pass the 10km test easyily because their fit, so they never actually think twice about preperation and join straight in with a set mind. Then their manner would lack in the army because they would see the DS as a coach rather than someone who is there to straighten them out. Hence the friendly "Hey man" remarks and the dissapointement they see when theyre cussed at. Umm I had more to say but I got distracted and now I got to go.

So I guess Im gonna have to let you people continue flaming me.. :warstory:

 

[Bert]

Hey Kamil

I can‘t speak for the everyone, but don‘t take this thread too seriously. As you can see, the conversation evolved post to post and discusses systemic issues and points of view of people in and out of the military, not necessarily directed at you personally. For sure we don‘t know you, who you really are, or what you can do. You can‘t judge a book by its cover. And yes, don‘t diss yourself in a this kinda forum. Hehe.

I guess the people in the military see recruits evolve over time and have opinions. For us, the guys that may be potential recruits, its good information and something to consider. It has slightly changed my attitude and perception about BMQ, what will be expected of me, and enforces a more can-do attitude if I ever get there.

We aren‘t invitro produced children and trained at birth to be all things military. We have strengths and weakness. If we go to BMQ, we‘ll try to be the best we can be, learn, and evolve into CF members to the best of our ability.

 

[Illucigen]

*sigh*.

No full metal jacket is definitely not representative of BMQ.

And Bert, please do not imply that anyone here said people should be "engineered before birth" to be in the military.

What I said (and Ill say it again) was that you should be clear on the reasons you want in, and your dedication to making it in the CF should be unfaltering, before you join. Why? It saves time, money, resources, for all parties concerned.

For those new recruits, you shouldnt feel discouraged. If you do, its probably because you actually care, and thats a good thing. But If I hear about one more idiot who just needed to pass some time and figured it would be a fairly easy ride Im going to go off the deep end. These type of people demoralize those who are dedicated to the forces, and being the best they can be in the forces.

Make sure you care before you sign up.

 

[Bert]

"And Bert, please do not imply that anyone here said people should be "engineered before birth" to be in the military." - Illucigen

Sorry, I felt I needed to respond to this.

I never implied that anyone in this thread said "engineered before birth". The thread evolved from post to post. I was more or less implying/describing that this may be needed for the "perfect" recruit. Obviously, there is a ridiculousness to it. We all have strengths and weaknesses. It wasn‘t meant to go beyond that.

 

[humint]

No offence, but I find that hardcore ‘gamers‘ have lost touch with reality. Guys who spend countless hours playing vids are simply engaging in a retreat from the real; it‘s a world in which there are no responsibilities and rules to adhere.

Don‘t get me wrong. I like playing vids too, but there is a difference between kickin‘ back and relaxing and spending day-and-night doing the $hit.

If you want a slice of reality cake, by all means, join the CF. I‘m not saying that you can or will not be able to succeed in the CF, you just need to be aware of the commitment and dedication it takes.

All you really need to do is ask yourself if your gaming hobby has had a significant impact on your life. Do you miss school to play games? Would you rather cut classes to be on-line? Do you spend countless hours playing games rather than getting outdoors or doing something physical? Are you physically unhealthy because of this?

If you answer yes to these, I not only think that you‘ll have a tough time in the CF, but you‘ll have a tough time in civvie life.

Case in point: There was this guy who lived in the basement of my house at university and all he did was play online games. Day and night, without stop. The only groceries he would get was 10 cases of Coke and microwave pizza. He and his buddies put tinfoil up on the windows to stop the sun from shining in and they would play online D&D marathons for days. He also never showed up for classes and it took him more than six years to get a freakin undergrad degree. He became a vid-game shut-in with pastie white skin who couldn‘t socialize.

Just figure out what you want to do and take positive steps to achieve it!

 

[das]

well now I play vid games too like Day of Defeat and metal of honour but i don‘t let it run my life infact I‘v been thinking of enlisting from the great age of 10 and sure i might just be 215 pounds and I know right now i can‘t do 10k in 48 mins it but thats what the army is for to train you to run 10-100k in mins and I know I that stubborn to make it in the army I just don‘t get why you must be soo rude to people who post very valid questions????

ohh and does any one know what skills you need to join the armoured units???? I want to drive a leopard tank

 

[humint]

I‘m not trying to be rude, just realistic.

Moreover, I don‘t think the other guys are trying to be rude, either; it‘s just that they realize that there is a level of dedication that the CF needs/expects and that potential recruits need to understand this from the get go!

Yes, the CF will get you fit. But they also expect a basic level of fitness before you go in. If you can‘t do the basic 20 sit-ups, push-ups, and 3 km run, you won‘t even make it through the fitness test. And, this is just the basic-basic stuff. You‘ll need to be able to do much more when going to basic training. The more fit you are, the better you‘ll do.

If you are interested in joining the CF, I strongly urge you to do two things:

(1) go to the recruiting centre and get all the info, and

(2) go to your local armoury on parade night, talk to them, hear what they have to say, sit in on a class, and watch what they are doing.

Spend some time with people who are in the CF -- talk to them (and not just the recruiter) to get an idea of what is expected. And then go and talk to an NCO, possibly the RSgtMaj, and see what he/she has to say.

Arm yourself with as much info as possible and then make a decision.

I hope that wasn‘t too rude. Next time I‘m coming out flaming: :flame:

 

[das]

thanks man I might just do that I want to go all the way in the army not for the glory of war but for the honour of serving my Country in time of need. I understand sort of where every one is coming from the world as a whole has gone down hill in the past few years after ww2 the vet. war the cold war and all the other **** the media plays the military as a bully when its not i don‘t know about every CF member but I know the CF is not a bunch of glory war hungry bullies I know enlisting will be hard and dirty but than again what job isn‘t ya know but than defending a country as big as Canada must be hard

 

[kurokaze]

Ok, personally I don‘t really give a rat‘s *** why
a person decided to the join the army. As far
as I‘m concerned if you follow the rules, look out
for your troops and serve canada before self then
you‘re fine.

But I want to comment on the whole 10km in
48 minutes thing.

The basic requirement of the CF is 2.4km in
under 12mins. That‘s what you need to get into
basic training. I‘m saying 10km in 48mins because
it will make basic training (and your subsequent
courses) that much easier for you.

Please don‘t misunderstand and think that if you
can‘t do 10km in 48 then you‘ll fail basic. No no no.

All I‘m saying is to shoot for that goal. Heck, my
best run so far is 8km in maybe 40-45mins. It‘ll
make life a whole lot easier for you later on.

Same thing applies with push-ups and sit-ups.
The basic requirement to get in is what is on
the CF recruiting page. What you will be required
to do once on course.. is another matter altogether

 

[das]

ohh ok thanks you had me worried for a miniute there well if its 2.4 i might beable to do that but yes i‘m planing on higher up i was going to try for ateast 8k so i think i‘ll still plan on that but thanks guys your a lot of help