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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

  • Thread starter Thread starter McG
  • Start date Start date
I don't see any public calls for Hamas to declare the hospital a "Open site" meaning they have removed themselves from it and it's no longer a battle zone. Then the IDF can clear it and ask an international group to run and secure the hospital.

There is no way that the medical staff couldn't know that Hamas was using their hospitals as military facilities.

To quote 'Bomber' Harris:

"They have sewn the wind. Now they can reap the whirlwind."
 
As Matt Gurney and Jen Gerson said on The Line podcast, if you’re putting on a dinner party and 5 guests are adamant on not having anything with GMO food, guess what? 100 people will be having GMO free food, as long as the other 95 are ambivalent or are unwilling to get into it with the other 5 about it. They called it “the dictatorship of the minority” how a small group of extremists can force their opinion on a larger group.
Or, you don't cater to the 5 guests and suggest that they come a bit later just for drinks as you've already ordered the food.

Wife has an old school friend (and husband) who is/are Muslim. When we first knew them when my wife and her were doing their MHS we'd go out to dinner with them or have them over to our place for dinner. She was born here in Canada and her husband as not, he came for university (PhD) to Canada. She was a practicing Muslim but did not wear a Hijab or 'loose fitting clothes'. Over time she changed, starting wearing a Hijab and looser fitting clothes and both starting eating (with us) only Halal food. The time came when we invited them over again for dinner, I was going to bar-b-que some flank steak for beef tacos. She informed my wife that they couldn't eat the beef since it was not Halal. We said that we would find Halal beef and show them before we cooked it. They said, 'No', the bar-b-que was unclean because we had cooked non-Halal meat on it and had cooked pork on it as well. I told my wife, let them know that I will clean out the entire bar-b-que and wash down/scrub the entire grill, flashing, everything. Was told 'thanks, but no thanks' in essence. They suggested that they would bring us dinner and that we could have a vegetable platter as the appetizer. We had the dinner with them but that was the last time that we had them over for dinner ever again. We offered complete a solution in our mind - sourcing Halal beef and completely scrubbing/cleaning our bar-b-que but it still wasn't good enough.....
 
Or, you don't cater to the 5 guests and suggest that they come a bit later just for drinks as you've already ordered the food.

Wife has an old school friend (and husband) who is/are Muslim. When we first knew them when my wife and her were doing their MHS we'd go out to dinner with them or have them over to our place for dinner. She was born here in Canada and her husband as not, he came for university (PhD) to Canada. She was a practicing Muslim but did not wear a Hijab or 'loose fitting clothes'. Over time she changed, starting wearing a Hijab and looser fitting clothes and both starting eating (with us) only Halal food. The time came when we invited them over again for dinner, I was going to bar-b-que some flank steak for beef tacos. She informed my wife that they couldn't eat the beef since it was not Halal. We said that we would find Halal beef and show them before we cooked it. They said, 'No', the bar-b-que was unclean because we had cooked non-Halal meat on it and had cooked pork on it as well. I told my wife, let them know that I will clean out the entire bar-b-que and wash down/scrub the entire grill, flashing, everything. Was told 'thanks, but no thanks' in essence. They suggested that they would bring us dinner and that we could have a vegetable platter as the appetizer. We had the dinner with them but that was the last time that we had them over for dinner ever again. We offered complete a solution in our mind - sourcing Halal beef and completely scrubbing/cleaning our bar-b-que but it still wasn't good enough.....
You went a few steps further than I would have.
 
Or, you don't cater to the 5 guests and suggest that they come a bit later just for drinks as you've already ordered the food.

Wife has an old school friend (and husband) who is/are Muslim. When we first knew them when my wife and her were doing their MHS we'd go out to dinner with them or have them over to our place for dinner. She was born here in Canada and her husband as not, he came for university (PhD) to Canada. She was a practicing Muslim but did not wear a Hijab or 'loose fitting clothes'. Over time she changed, starting wearing a Hijab and looser fitting clothes and both starting eating (with us) only Halal food. The time came when we invited them over again for dinner, I was going to bar-b-que some flank steak for beef tacos. She informed my wife that they couldn't eat the beef since it was not Halal. We said that we would find Halal beef and show them before we cooked it. They said, 'No', the bar-b-que was unclean because we had cooked non-Halal meat on it and had cooked pork on it as well. I told my wife, let them know that I will clean out the entire bar-b-que and wash down/scrub the entire grill, flashing, everything. Was told 'thanks, but no thanks' in essence. They suggested that they would bring us dinner and that we could have a vegetable platter as the appetizer. We had the dinner with them but that was the last time that we had them over for dinner ever again. We offered complete a solution in our mind - sourcing Halal beef and completely scrubbing/cleaning our bar-b-que but it still wasn't good enough.....
It's not a matter of your BBQ being clean or not, it's the fact that it had been used to cook pork and non-Halal meat previously. It would be the same thing if you were to invite over Jewish friends that keep a Kosher Kitchen.

The requirement to keep meat and dairy products separate necessitates that they be prepared with their own designated utensils. Accordingly, a kosher kitchen can be characterized by duplicates: two sets of pots, two sets of dishes, and sometimes even two ovens or two sinks.
You shouldn't take it personally because scrubbing/cleaning your BBQ "wasn't good enough". It's simply that for an observant Muslim a non-Halal BBQ isn't to be used to cook your food. At our work we have separate BBQ's specifically to cook the food for our Muslim employees when we have staff events.
 
Or, you don't cater to the 5 guests and suggest that they come a bit later just for drinks as you've already ordered the food.

Wife has an old school friend (and husband) who is/are Muslim. When we first knew them when my wife and her were doing their MHS we'd go out to dinner with them or have them over to our place for dinner. She was born here in Canada and her husband as not, he came for university (PhD) to Canada. She was a practicing Muslim but did not wear a Hijab or 'loose fitting clothes'. Over time she changed, starting wearing a Hijab and looser fitting clothes and both starting eating (with us) only Halal food. The time came when we invited them over again for dinner, I was going to bar-b-que some flank steak for beef tacos. She informed my wife that they couldn't eat the beef since it was not Halal. We said that we would find Halal beef and show them before we cooked it. They said, 'No', the bar-b-que was unclean because we had cooked non-Halal meat on it and had cooked pork on it as well. I told my wife, let them know that I will clean out the entire bar-b-que and wash down/scrub the entire grill, flashing, everything. Was told 'thanks, but no thanks' in essence. They suggested that they would bring us dinner and that we could have a vegetable platter as the appetizer. We had the dinner with them but that was the last time that we had them over for dinner ever again. We offered complete a solution in our mind - sourcing Halal beef and completely scrubbing/cleaning our bar-b-que but it still wasn't good enough.....

Dude, it's not about you. Islam has virtue signalers too ;)
 
It's not a matter of your BBQ being clean or not, it's the fact that it had been used to cook pork and non-Halal meat previously. It would be the same thing if you were to invite over Jewish friends that keep a Kosher Kitchen.


You shouldn't take it personally because scrubbing/cleaning your BBQ "wasn't good enough". It's simply that for an observant Muslim a non-Halal BBQ isn't to be used to cook your food. At our work we have separate BBQ's specifically to cook the food for our Muslim employees when we have staff events.
Understood.

But what this strict observance, with no/little allowance for 'minor transgressions' to occur, leads to is a 'us vs them' mentality. Extremely difficult then for non-Jewish, non-Muslim's to really come to know Muslim/Jewish co-workers/friends and accept one another if they can't even sit down and share a meal in each other's homes. I would think that any 'sane' religious leader in each group would realise this and allow for these infrequent events to occur.
 
Understood.

But what this strict observance, with no/little allowance for 'minor transgressions' to occur, leads to is a 'us vs them' mentality. Extremely difficult then for non-Jewish, non-Muslim's to really come to know Muslim/Jewish co-workers/friends and accept one another if they can't even sit down and share a meal in each other's homes. I would think that any 'sane' religious leader in each group would realise this and allow for these infrequent events to occur.
As an atheist I'm not about to argue the logic of various religious proscriptions. Halal, Kosher, cows for Hindus, no meat on Fridays for Catholics, vows of silence, facial hair/no facial hair, no zippers, specific colours and styles of clothing, segregation of the sexes, chastity, blood transfusions, etc.

Every faith has its own rules and rites. Of course not every member of a religion is as observant of those restrictions as others and the most orthodox followers of each faith can seem a little fanatical in their observances by those of other faiths (or even more liberal followers of the same faith).

It absolutely IS an "us vs them" mentality as the observant believe that obeying the various proscriptions is spiritual requirement. However what would you do about it? If you believe in freedom of religion then are you going to force someone to eat something that is proscribed by their religion in order to accept that person?

So long as someone's beliefs do not impinge on my own rights and freedoms then I have no problem "accepting" those individuals despite their different beliefs. I certainly might not understand their adherence to something that I don't agree with but as long as they don't hold beliefs that I personally find offensive I don't see their following their faith preventing me from having a personal relationship with them.

Maybe you should have taken them up on their offer to bring dinner instead. You might have missed a delicious meal.
 
Funny enough, in my house we don't wear hats at the table.

However, I might tolerate a veil if they tolerate a deep cleaned BBQ.

Fair?

PS: Freedom of religion means you won't be genocided by the government because you pray to the wrong god. Our modern interpretation that makes it so the rest of society has to cater to every cult's whims is a civilizational anomaly.
 
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