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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

  • Thread starter Thread starter McG
  • Start date Start date
I would hope you would rise up against a government that would do that to your family. Hopefully we never have to find out.

Doing hard things is how we make things better.

Europe has been a "civilised" society since the days of, at least, Smith and Rousseau. People put their trust in the organs of their establishments. They expected order and peace, if not necessarily good governance.

So when the establishment showed up at the front door and ordered them into the back of a truck they got in the truck. When the truck stopped and they were ordered into a trench they got into a trench. Some were handed a rifle. Some were gunned down.

...

Parizeau's Lobsters.

 
But the question remains. It's very hard to resist your oppressor, but do you draw the line at killing, or supporting the killing of, foreigners as an outlet for your problems?

If the foreigner shows up to help your "oppressor", maybe not . The Yankees gave the Hessians a rough ride.
If the foreigners are buying bullets that killed your father, maybe not.
 
The Israelis just dropped the mic on part 2 of this -

Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say​


BEIRUT, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Hand-held radios used by Hezbollah detonated late on Wednesday afternoon across Lebanon's south and in Beirut's southern suburbs, a security source and a witness said, further hiking tensions with Israel a day after similar explosions launched via the group's pagers.At least one of the blasts took place near a funeral organized by Iran-backed Hezbollah for those killed the previous day when thousands of pagers used by the group exploded across the country and wounded many of the group's fighters.



From a detached perspective on this - this 2 part attack is immensely impressive - from a project planning angle I'm in awe, this is what I was talking about in the Submarine thread, planning for a 'Black Swan' event.

In this case, would there ever be a situation where 'we' could be aware of our enemy changing their comms in a manner where we could influence the change before it happens and position ourselves to be able to strike them completely across the board at a time and place and manner of our choosing to create utter fear, confusion, self doubt on the senior leadership, expose virtually their entire membership and collapse their entire comms in 1 single end-to-end event?

'What, the odds of that ever occurring is 1 in 100,000, great, start planning for it now and let us know what resources you need to ensure its success.'

That is brilliant planning and willingness to think outside of the box to ensure success.

I got to wondering if the Israelis actually had to install explosives in the pagers. Or could they simply have modified the formula for the plastic used to make the covers? And replaced a supplier in the supply chain?
 
The pagers were bought by Hezbollah and issued to Hezbollah leaders. In the middle of the day when people are out conducting their business, there is a very high probability that the vast majority of those pages will be on the person to whom they were issued. So, this would have been very precise. Could some of the targeted individuals have been carrying children or operating motor vehicles? Maybe. But that does not equate to indiscriminate firing of cluster munitions into civilian parks & infrastructure.

Proportionality is not determined by an absolute number of casualties irrelevant of who those casualties are. If 2700 pagers hit only 2500 Hezbollah officials, those 2500 casualties were legitimate targets, not part of some disproportionate collateral damage. Your assessment of disproportionality must be based on the number of casualties who were not Hezbollah, and right now there is no reporting to indicate that number is particularly large.


It makes we wonder about the knock-on effect. How many of you are looking askance at your departmentally issued devices?

A QA defect in the battery? A new plastic formulation for the covers? Magnesium or aluminum? OEM swapping suppliers? Non-OEM spares during your annual service? New IT guy?
 
we're always inventing shitty new ways to kill
This type of idea has been a plot device in movies and TV shows for decades. Only the scale is new.

I think this was a 'neat' operation by someone; I also think the primary aim wasn't to kill or maim anyone - it was to spread fear and suspicion within the ranks of Hezbollah.
I'd bet odds on that there was/is a follow up op to track all the folks reporting in to hospitals in Lebanon and to trace their contacts. Much of Hezbollah has been laid open

🍻
 
Using your intelligence agency to compromise an Eastern European factory building licenced Taiwanese products to build mini command-detonated grenades is. Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, I'm under the impression these would have had to be compromised at the factory, right? Or have I been "misinformationed" on this?
A country believes that its at war and, as a result, it believed that these actions were justified in order to inflict casualties on its enemies that are beyond their reach - short of dropping a few hundred 500 pounds or air to ground missiles and all the secondary damage that causes.

What the question should be is this - How is a company based within the EU (Hungary) exporting a product to the Middle East (Lebanon?) where the end user is Hezbollah?
Let's suppose, just for sh!ts and giggles, that a world famous spy agency decided to fiddle with a bunch of pagers and blow up a few unpleasant people. Let's also suppose that doing the job required operators to intercept (a) shipment(s) and tamper with items.

Does anyone really think that those items would ever have landed anywhere near the home of the famous spy agency?

Also does anyone actually expect that famous spy agency to say, "hey, look, it was us"?

I think this was a 'neat' operation by someone; I also think the primary aim wasn't to kill or maim anyone - it was to spread fear and suspicion within the ranks of Hezbollah.
Go out and find a copy of the book called By Way of Deception, written by a Canadian, lol, to better understand the ‘how’ and the ‘why’ Israel is able to pull these things off quite regularly.
 
Go out and find a copy of the book called By Way of Deception, written by a Canadian, lol, to better understand the ‘how’ and the ‘why’ Israel is able to pull these things off quite regularly.
I think I read that many years ago. The Jewish diaspora community is strong and quite well placed - and influential.

Israel has no friends - at least in their view- and a shit ton of enemies. That is why they are so effective. It is a matter of survival.
 

This line reminded of a tale once heard.

Getting your balls blown off by a primed pager has got to be the most “f**k around, find out” thing that has ever happened. It took place in Lebanon Tuesday. To the approval of both supporters of Israel and meme-makers everywhere, thousands of pagers used by Hezbollah operatives suddenly exploded. The footage coming out of Lebanon is extraordinary. A man’s trouser pocket erupting in a supermarket, a man writhing in agony in the middle of the road after his trusted comms device turned on him. The battle of the pagers will surely be recorded as one of the most unusual and audacious acts in the entire history of human warfare.



Gen.34​

[1] And Dinah the daughter of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob, went out to see the daughters of the land.
[2] And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her.

[3] And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel.
[4] And Shechem spake unto his father Hamor, saying, Get me this damsel to wife.
[5] And Jacob heard that he had defiled Dinah his daughter: now his sons were with his cattle in the field: and Jacob held his peace until they were come.
[6] And Hamor the father of Shechem went out unto Jacob to commune with him.
[7] And the sons of Jacob came out of the field when they heard it: and the men were grieved, and they were very wroth, because he had wrought folly in Israel in lying with Jacob's daughter; which thing ought not to be done.
[8] And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife.
[9] And make ye marriages with us, and give your daughters unto us, and take our daughters unto you.
[10] And ye shall dwell with us: and the land shall be before you; dwell and trade ye therein, and get you possessions therein.
[11] And Shechem said unto her father and unto her brethren, Let me find grace in your eyes, and what ye shall say unto me I will give.
[12] Ask me never so much dowry and gift, and I will give according as ye shall say unto me: but give me the damsel to wife.
[13] And the sons of Jacob answered Shechem and Hamor his father deceitfully, and said, because he had defiled Dinah their sister:
[14] And they said unto them, We cannot do this thing, to give our sister to one that is uncircumcised; for that were a reproach unto us:
[15] But in this will we consent unto you: If ye will be as we be, that every male of you be circumcised;
[16] Then will we give our daughters unto you, and we will take your daughters to us, and we will dwell with you, and we will become one people.
[17] But if ye will not hearken unto us, to be circumcised; then will we take our daughter, and we will be gone.
[18] And their words pleased Hamor, and Shechem Hamor's son.
[19] And the young man deferred not to do the thing, because he had delight in Jacob's daughter: and he was more honourable than all the house of his father.
[20] And Hamor and Shechem his son came unto the gate of their city, and communed with the men of their city, saying,
[21] These men are peaceable with us; therefore let them dwell in the land, and trade therein; for the land, behold, it is large enough for them; let us take their daughters to us for wives, and let us give them our daughters.
[22] Only herein will the men consent unto us for to dwell with us, to be one people, if every male among us be circumcised, as they are circumcised.
[23] Shall not their cattle and their substance and every beast of theirs be ours? only let us consent unto them, and they will dwell with us.
[24] And unto Hamor and unto Shechem his son hearkened all that went out of the gate of his city; and every male was circumcised, all that went out of the gate of his city.
[25] And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.

[26] And they slew Hamor and Shechem his son with the edge of the sword, and took Dinah out of Shechem's house, and went out.
[27] The sons of Jacob came upon the slain, and spoiled the city, because they had defiled their sister.
[28] They took their sheep, and their oxen, and their asses, and that which was in the city, and that which was in the field,
[29] And all their wealth, and all their little ones, and their wives took they captive, and spoiled even all that was in the house.
[30] And Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, Ye have troubled me to make me to stink among the inhabitants of the land, among the Canaanites and the Perizzites: and I being few in number, they shall gather themselves together against me, and slay me; and I shall be destroyed, I and my house.
[31] And they said, Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?

Israeli rules.

Circa the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah - 1600 BCE +/- 200 years.


...

Convince the poor buggers to let you circumcise them. Three days later, while they are infected and dripping and laying in their cots - put them to the knife.

....

Israelis - 4000 years of making friends in a friendly neighbourhood.
 

“Hezbollah is just one theater of war for Israel,” says Niger Innis, chairman for the Congress of Racial Equality, one of America’s oldest civil rights organizations, who traveled to Africa in 2003 with his father, the late Roy Innis, a famous conservative black activist of the 1960s and ’70s who took a special interest in South Sudanese independence.

Innis points out that when Joe Biden and Kamala Harris took office, Iran was broke, “crippled and on its knees,” but they willfully reanimated Barack Obama’s Iran nuclear deal, the so-called Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, which Donald Trump had sensibly scrapped.

Last year, they released $6 billion in frozen funds to Iran that we were assured would only be used for “humanitarian purposes and medicine.”

A month later, on Oct. 7, came the depraved attack on Israel by Iran-sponsored Hamas terrorists.

Ever since, Biden and Harris have displayed disdain for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, with Harris rudely boycotting his visit to Congress this year, in an effort to appease the Hamas wing of her party.

Biden and Harris have paused the supply of certain weapons to Israel, and demanded its military pull their punches in Gaza, where Israeli and American hostages were taken.

Now, as the anniversary of Oct. 7 nears, we find from the State Department’s inspector general that the administration grossly mishandled the suspension of its virulently anti-Israel Iran envoy Robert Malley, who had his security clearance revoked last April.

Malley, a childhood friend of Secretary of State Antony Blinken and his old classmate from École Jeannine Manuel, a bilingual school in Paris, was improperly allowed to access classified materials after his suspension pending an ongoing investigation by the FBI for security breaches,
according to accounts of the IG report in the Washington Free Beacon and the Associated Press.

Investigative reporter Lee Smith wrote in Tablet last year that Malley allegedly had helped “fund, support, and direct an Iranian intelligence operation designed to influence the United States and allied governments” and helped to infiltrate an Iranian agent of influence “into some of the most sensitive positions in the US government — first at the State Department and now the Pentagon.”

Pro-Tehran analysis​

Among the policy analysts Malley hired was Ariane Tabatabai, who has been identified as a member of a pro-Tehran advocacy network run by Iran’s foreign ministry and remains a senior Pentagon official with top-secret security clearance.

Despite the obvious concerns, Malley was allowed to participate in a classified White House call on Iran one day after his suspension, but before he was informed about it.

He was still performing official duties after his security clearance was pulled, in breach of State Department protocol, says the IG report.

A month after his suspension, he was included in an email with then-undersecretary for political affairs Victoria Nuland discussing talking points for Blinken, the Free Beacon reported.

“Special Envoy Malley’s advice was also regularly sought and provided on issues including media talking points and Congressional testimony,” the IG found.

In other words, Blinken and his bosses Harris and Biden treated the potential national security threat posed by Malley as a joke.

So did Yale and Princeton,
which offered him prestigious teaching roles after he was suspended.

It’s no wonder that Israel didn’t trust Harris or Biden enough to inform them about the Hezbollah pager operation until the last minute.

Even with a score card it is getting hard to tell whose on first.
 

Israeli troops throwing people/bodies from a building by Jenin.

Really makes you question the professionalism of the troops as they wouldn’t be doing such actions if they didn’t feel they would be getting away with it.
 

Israeli troops throwing people/bodies from a building by Jenin.

Really makes you question the professionalism of the troops as they wouldn’t be doing such actions if they didn’t feel they would be getting away with it.
It’s not exactly the “Geneva Suggestion”.
 

Israeli troops throwing people/bodies from a building by Jenin.

Really makes you question the professionalism of the troops as they wouldn’t be doing such actions if they didn’t feel they would be getting away with it.
There is basically no conceivable circumstance where you can do this and not look like total shitheads. What an embarrassing lack of discipline and professionalism.
 
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