Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[Halifax Tar]

Especially when you are a Canadian frigate that's supposed to be able to keep up so you can 'protect' the flat top, but can't.

Or so I've been told

Carriers don't generally run flat out all that often, most ships don't. Spinning up the GTs, or in the carriers instance the nukes, is generally something saved for emergency/fighting situations. As the USS Ford is now, to get into position.

Normally our frigates run on patrol engines. As do most Naval ships.

But I have sailed with US Carriers and we were always at the life guard station, at the back of the group to pluck unsuspecting now swimming flyers out of the ocean.

 

[OldSolduer]

Those monsters can move.

IIRC the actual top speed of a nuclear powered carrier is classified. From what I can gather it is in the neighborhood of 40 kts.

An amazing feat of engineering.

 

[QV]

The Palestinians should probably be doing something about Hamas before Hamas brings about their destruction.

 

[Booter]

I don’t totally get AD stuff- and the iron dome is interesting. Is there an sme here that could tell me if it’s possible that the crazy volume being sent right now might be to deplete the capability because they have access to something more destructive?

Like is that me just watching too many movies?

 

[Czech_pivo]

The Palestinians should probably be doing something about Hamas before Hamas brings about their destruction.

Anyone wondering if the Israelis would be willing to help Fatah out by transferring a few thousand of their armed supporters over to the Gaza border in a few days time and turn them loose on the remnants of Hamas and let a 'red on red' battle occur with the intent that Fata comes out on top and retakes Gaza?

I seem to have these Machiavellian thoughts from time to time.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I don’t totally get AD stuff- and the iron dome is interesting. Is there an sme here that could tell me if it’s possible that the crazy volume being sent right now might be to deplete the capability because they have access to something more destructive?

Like is that me just watching too many movies?

I am no AD SME but all munition stocks, or any material stock, have a finite quantity. And depletion is your worst enemy.

 

[KevinB]

I don’t totally get AD stuff- and the iron dome is interesting. Is there an sme here that could tell me if it’s possible that the crazy volume being sent right now might be to deplete the capability because they have access to something more destructive?

Like is that me just watching too many movies?

I’m of the opinion that Israel probably has enough AD systems and munitions for Iron Dome to cover them for years…

 

[Remius]

The Palestinians should probably be doing something about Hamas before Hamas brings about their destruction.

This is exactly why this is as much a Palestinian problem as much as it is an Israeli problem.

One issue is that with a population of 4 to 5 million and an estimated Hamas strength of 10k that can expand when shtf to estimates of 50k, one has to wonder about the degrees of separation between innocent people and people that know or know someone who knows someone in Hamas.

 

[KevinB]

They don’t care.

Dragging in the Americans is a feature, not a bug.

SMU usage wouldn’t be dragging us in.

I can’t see any CF usage of US forces at all.

 

[KevinB]

This is exactly why this is as much a Palestinian problem as much as it is an Israeli problem.

One issue is that with a population of 4 to 5 million and an estimated Hamas strength of 10k that can expand when shtf to estimates of 50k, one has to wonder about the degrees of separation between innocent people and people that know or know someone who knows someone in Hamas.

But we also see how well that idea worked in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[GR66]

I’m of the opinion that Israel probably has enough AD systems and munitions for Iron Dome to cover them for years…

I'm suspecting that the apparent success of (a portion of) Hamas' rockets getting through vs Iron Dome was likely due to the number of incoming rockets at one time rather than the total number of rockets fired.

That could be an issue if the war expands to include Hezbollah as apparently they have a huge stockpile of rockets and missiles available.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’m of the opinion that Israel probably has enough AD systems and munitions for Iron Dome to cover them for years…

Using what calculations for rates of consumption ? Logistics, logistics, logistics... Pay attention to it or it will get you every damn time.

I'm sure they have stock, but as we are seeing with the global shortage of artillery shells, it doesn't take long to consume them...

 

[KevinB]

I'm suspecting that the apparent success of (a portion of) Hamas' rockets getting through vs Iron Dome was likely due to the number of incoming rockets at one time rather than the total number of rockets fired.

That could be an issue if the war expands to include Hezbollah as apparently they have a huge stockpile of rockets and missiles available.

No, the success on Hamas’s side was due to they overwhelmed two ground stations with their terrorists.

 

[KevinB]

Using what calculations for rates of consumption ? Logistics, logistics, logistics... Pay attention to it or it will get you every damn time.

I'm sure they have stock, but as we are seeing with the global shortage of artillery shells, it doesn't take long to consume them...

Israel is unique in its military approach. Ever since the issues in 1967 with their war stock (Howitzers with dried out seals, tanks with leaking suspensions etc) they adopted a 75% usage rate outlook.

So they replace weapons etc with anything less than 75% life span remaining. They have planned and stocked for a 3 front war for years.

I would be shocked if they didn’t have enough for at least 3 months at max expenditure rate, as by that time the expectation was they had either won, had US support arriving, or had been forced to go Nuclear.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Israel is unique in its military approach. Ever since the issues in 1967 with their war stock (Howitzers with dried out seals, tanks with leaking suspensions etc) they adopted a 75% usage rate outlook.

So they replace weapons etc with anything less than 75% life span remaining. They have planned and stocked for a 3 front war for years.

I would be shocked if they didn’t have enough for at least 3 months at max expenditure rate, as by that time the expectation was they had either won, had US support arriving, or had been forced to go Nuclear.

That's an interesting metric to use for commodities. 74% service life remaining equals disposal. Maybe its the poorly equipped Canadian in me but that seems luxurious.

Again, that calculation of three months sustainment mush have included an estimated a high and low daily rate of fire, and a plan for replenishment to kick in around the 1.5 to 2 months remaining mark. I'm a Log nerd, I would love to peak behind their curtain and see what they are doing Logistically.

 

[KevinB]

That's an interesting metric to use for commodities. 74% service life remaining equals disposal. Maybe its the poorly equipped Canadian in me but that seems luxurious.

Not disposal, at least anymore, they cycle those out to refurb and then stockpile or divestment. But they have a crazy stockpile of equipment.

Again, that calculation of three months sustainment mush have included an estimated a high and low daily rate of fire, and a plan for replenishment to kick in around the 1.5 to 2 months remaining mark. I'm a Log nerd, I would love to peak behind their curtain and see what they are doing Logistically.

Honestly no idea, the Israeli’s are fairly close lipped about stock piles of munitions.

But I would expect the quantity to be on the high end of max expenditures for their entire force activated and conducting operations.

 

[gryphonv]

Israel is unique in its military approach. Ever since the issues in 1967 with their war stock (Howitzers with dried out seals, tanks with leaking suspensions etc) they adopted a 75% usage rate outlook.

So they replace weapons etc with anything less than 75% life span remaining. They have planned and stocked for a 3 front war for years.

I would be shocked if they didn’t have enough for at least 3 months at max expenditure rate, as by that time the expectation was they had either won, had US support arriving, or had been forced to go Nuclear.

I remember reading some time ago how advanced their domestic weapon production is.

I suspect they can replenish stocks much faster than someone like Palestine can deplete them. This coupled with the US being able to supply them with any deficits they have and any raw materials they will need.

They also traditionally spend more than 5% gdp on their military. Also with a very robust industry in selling hardware to other nations.

Their main battle tank are domestic made also AFAIK. And unique to their own set of requirements.

To put it into perspective. We spend roughly 50% more usd on our military for over 4x the population and 100x the land mass.

Israel is incredibly well equipped.

 

[Kirkhill]

I remember reading some time ago how advanced their domestic weapon production is.

I suspect they can replenish stocks much faster than someone like Palestine can deplete them. This coupled with the US being able to supply them with any deficits they have and any raw materials they will need.

They also traditionally spend more than 5% gdp on their military. Also with a very robust industry in selling hardware to other nations.

Their main battle tank are domestic made also AFAIK. And unique to their own set of requirements.

To put it into perspective. We spend roughly 50% more usd on our military for over 4x the population and 100x the land mass.

Israel is incredibly well equipped.

Israel as a model for Ukraine going forward?

 

[gryphonv]

Israel as a model for Ukraine going forward?

Maybe but I wouldn't trust Ukraine having nukes.

 

[Quirky]

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Here we go again. Time to separate those who were in Israel and caught up in this mess and Canadians living in Israel who want a free ride out.