G8/G20 June 2010 Protest Watch

[mariomike]

When they informed us that G20 was coming to town, I remembered the Queen's Park Riot of 2000.
So did the Mayor, when he mentioned it during the Saturday riot.
Casualties were kept to a minimum this time.

I added a Youtube video of the Queen's Park Riot in 2000 to Reply #422.
In case anyone did not see it, or perhaps is interested in seeing it:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/92495/post-949688.html#msg949688

The action starts around the 1:20 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jKn3HJ8go8

 

[Fishbone Jones]

My sanity has returned.

Arrest the thugs, prosecute the Canadian thugs and toss them in jail. I personally know some other ne'er do wells (they don't riot) who would love to have a skinny white kid as a cell mate.... ;D

As for the foreign thugs, immediate deportation to their home country.

Put them on the  terrorist 'no fly list' so they can never (hopefully) board a plane again.

 

[The Bread Guy]

That didn't take long.....

As the Annual General Meeting of Amnesty International Canada (English branch) concluded (Sunday) in Toronto, Amnesty International members from across the country expressed their very deep concern that important rights associated with peaceful protest have suffered considerably in the city over the weekend.

In connection with the G20 leaders summit, the heavy police and security presence that has permeated the city for several days, as well as acts of vandalism and other violence by numbers of individuals, have contributed to an atmosphere of apprehension and fearfulness that has led many individuals to refrain from or limit their involvement in peaceful demonstrations and other activities.

(....)

We unequivocally condemn the acts of vandalism and violence that have been carried out by numbers of individuals, particularly during the evening of June 26. Such acts are criminal and undermine the safety of the many thousands of individuals involved in peaceful protest. We recognize that police have a responsibility to respond to such actions, to protect public safety, prevent damage to property, and ensure the safety of leaders and other officials attending the G20 Summit.

(....)

Lessons must be learned from these events. We call on the Canadian government and the government of the province of Ontario to cooperate in launching an independent review of the security measures that were put in place for the G8 and G20 Summits. The review should include opportunities for public input and the results should be released to the public. Among other issues, the review should consider:

•The impact of security measures, including decisions about the location and venues for the two summits, on the protection of human rights, including the freedoms of expression and assembly.

• The ways in which police operations and the use of legal provisions such as the Public Works Protection Act have impacted the rights of the many thousands of people living, working and operating businesses within and near the G20 security zone ....

More here.

 

[Journeyman]

That didn't take long.....

As the Annual General Meeting of Amnesty International Canada (English branch) concluded (Sunday) in Toronto, Amnesty International members from across the country expressed their very deep concern that important rights associated with peaceful protest have suffered considerably in the city over the weekend.

Given the semblance of balance amongst the comments on the CBC website (it's normally populated by the rabidly 'everything's-Harper's-fault' tinfoil hat brigade) I think maybe the protesters pissed off more people than they convinced about the significance of their cause de jour.

The one comment I did like regarding Amnesty's "very deep concern"  :  :

How many people have been raped and murdered in Darfur today, Amnesty International? why don't you focus on actual human rights violations that are occurring RIGHT NOW instead of taking potshots at liberal-democratic first-world nations?

 

[OldSolduer]

Amnesty International is a farce. Its as bad as the UN.

They won't hold any dictator's feet to the fire.....I wonder why? Maybe we need to follow the money trail......just saying....

Its about time someone held Amnesty Interational's feet to the fire....

On the plus side, I'm glad the G8/G20 is over.
Besides, those anarchist b@sta@ds stole our two fallen comrades' time.

 

[captloadie]

I almost wish our favorite anarchist hadn't been booted before all this hit the fan. I'd love to hear her spin this as the police, governments, etc fault. Maybe she has another forumn/blog we could cross post from for a good laugh.  >

 

[spear]

I just heard it this morning news from AM680, that most of the protesters who got arrested were complaining about the cage-like imprisonments they got.... What the heck they were expecting about being imprisoned, tossing them up and down on a living room-like place for crooks/criminals like them?  If you violated any laws and were deemed as a criminal by a judge then they should be treated like one, as in no special treatments.  I mean if you go out there and expressed your disappointments, then protest peacefully, as in no window smashings, no torching police cruisers, and no throwing rocks against the cops. 

 

[2010newbie]

I'm sure the argument will be that they were protesting peacefully. I've been discussing this with a few people in the last few days and I'm surprised how many people don't see the connection that even if you aren't throwing rocks or causing the disturbance, if you are verbally promoting/supporting their actions through saying nothing or cheering them on, you are an accomplice. The unedited CTV video footage from Yonge Street that was posted earlier in this thread really made me sick. a couple good citizens came in to stop people from causing the damage only to be heckled by the crowd (most of which I'm sure would say they were peaceful protesters). It is utterly disgusting. In the video it was only a handful of people actually causing the destruction in a crowd of hundreds. If the crowd stopped supporting and chastised them instead, I'm sure the destruction would have come to a halt much sooner.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... I'm surprised how many people don't see the connection that even if you aren't throwing rocks or causing the disturbance, if you are verbally promoting/supporting their actions through saying nothing or cheering them on, you are an accomplice ....

How about another relationship-linkage people don't seem to be seeing:  Police actions on Sunday=no vandalism on Sunday ?  Co-incidence?

But there's always a "can't win" excuse isn't there?  Vandalism of public and private property on Saturday? "It's the cops' fault for not stopping it" or "the cops did it"  So, police prevent vandalism of public and private property on Sunday?  "Police brutality" and "time to look into this"

.... a couple good citizens came in to stop people from causing the damage only to be heckled by the crowd (most of which I'm sure would say they were peaceful protesters). It is utterly disgusting. In the video it was only a handful of people actually causing the destruction in a crowd of hundreds. If the crowd stopped supporting and chastised them instead, I'm sure the destruction would have come to a halt much sooner ....

Ah, the "diversity of tactics" horse-hockey.  One would think if Olivia Chow (eventually) got it (too late to make a difference) ....
The peaceful rally has finished. The violence has nothing to do with it. Sad "Make Poverty History" message lost.
.... someone else in the protest movement would.

 

[Danjanou]

Well the grassy knoll brigade obviously see it as the Police at fault. :

http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/public-inquiry-g-20-2010-toronto-policing-clearly-urgently-required

http://rabble.ca/babble/introductions/debate-protest-tactics-what-works-what-doesnt

http://rabble.ca/babble/activism/g-20-protests-turn-violent

According to the "progressives" the cops broke the windows and set the cars on fire, but we still need to sue them for failing to protect property.

It does sound like the cops are pulling an insurance scam - set up used police cars to be thrashed by the crowd, collect insurance for completely new vehicles. I hope CBC and others investigate this, but I somehow doubt they will

They also suck at aircraft recognition

There was a large military aircraft orbiting downtown Toronto for most of today. It appeared to be an electronic intelligence (ELINT) or surveillance version of the C-130 Hercules as it looked to have a long tail boom like those normally seen on submarine hunting aircraft like this P3 Orion, which is weird as a boom like that normally houses a magnetic anomaly detector.

The Canadian forces have Hercs, but I've never heard of them having any fitted for ELINT, and one news report identified the plane as belonging to the US. I'm wondering if it was being used to intercept cell phone calls and text messages and track individuals' movements.

My personal favourite quote is from a veteran of the Quebec City riots offering advice to Toronto protesters

Cappuccino or a light anti-pasta were very popular after a good gassing. Many grabbed their credit cards from waist pouches and headed into any of the dozens of open vegetarian cafes for a light lunch after first cleaning up in the ladies or mens room to wipe off a bucket of snot. All the local businesses were open and catering to the riot tourist trade. After a fantastic Quebecois repast everyone would head right back into the corrosive clouds for the business at hand – rioting. It was actually a very festive atmosphere. Quebec City can be a great tourist town.

http://rabble.ca/babble/rabble-news-features/g-20-summit-toronto-and-tear-gas-summit-quebec-city

 

[2010newbie]

They also suck at aircraft recognition

There was a large military aircraft orbiting downtown Toronto for most of today. It appeared to be an electronic intelligence (ELINT) or surveillance version of the C-130 Hercules as it looked to have a long tail boom like those normally seen on submarine hunting aircraft like this P3 Orion, which is weird as a boom like that normally houses a magnetic anomaly detector.

The Canadian forces have Hercs, but I've never heard of them having any fitted for ELINT, and one news report identified the plane as belonging to the US. I'm wondering if it was being used to intercept cell phone calls and text messages and track individuals' movements.

I was out of the country this past weekend so I don't know which aircraft they are talking about, but could this be what they're trying to describe??

http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/13308/wm/pd1938023.jpg

 

[mariomike]

Once the dust settles I'd like to see the government publish a few sets of figures:
Firstly, the Summit costs.  Separate out the fixed costs (wages, etc.) that were going to be paid from one government budget or another (to Canadians, by the way), then examine the remainder.

Although it will likely just be a drop in the bucket when the grand total for G20 is determined ( if it truly will ever be ), the T-EMS tab is going to be high. All Paramedic vacations for the entire month of June were cancelled, or put on hold. There was a staggering amount of overtime. Ottawa sent 50 of their Paramedics to Toronto. T-EMS staffed for two cities: City of Toronto and City of G20.
I read that G20 Pittsburgh was the biggest EMS operation in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania's history. 

 

[ModlrMike]

The up front costs will certainly be high, but the net effect will be to move money from one part of the Government to another. From taxes to intergovernmental transfers, a considerable amount will be recovered. In addition, a great deal of money will circulate through the Toronto economy. I wager that the total down stream, "unrecoverable" costs will be something in the region of 40% of the total.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Although it will likely just be a drop in the bucket when the grand total for G20 is determined ( if it truly will ever be ), the T-EMS tab is going to be high. All Paramedic vacations for the entire month of June were cancelled, or put on hold. There was a staggering amount of overtime.

I'm also guessing a lot of police overtime (at all levels) was racked up going into and through this, too.  If possible, it would be nice to see that broken out as well.

And, of course, if we'd used troops to provide more up-front security, here's the messaging we'd be seeing/hearing from the protest bloc-heads.

 

[Rifleman62]

I guess the almost one billion spent by a Conservative government for the G8/20 was not worthy expenditure.  No tangable result. The media is already poo-poo the G8/20 ending statements.

Compared to the over one billion spent by the Federal Liberals on the Gun Registry and the over one billion spent on HRDC, or by the Ontario Liberals over one billion on E-Health.

Ever hear/read the Canadian media compare these expenditures?

Mark Holland take note.

 

[mariomike]

And, of course, if we'd used troops to provide more up-front security, here's the messaging we'd be seeing/hearing from the protest bloc-heads.

Speaking only for myself, I was thankful to see them during the snow storm. They saved my partner and me from possible heart-attacks when they helped us carry a stretcher up a snow-covered street. They were glad to help us.
Would I have been offended, as a concerned citizen / pensioner living in Toronto, to have again seen the military working downtown with our Emergency Services? Heck no!

"Don’t even try to hold international political conferences with this kind of explosive ideological charge in the heart of a major urban centre."

"The idea that this was an effective way to show off Toronto to foreign guests is bewilderingly stupid."

"They took our city to hold a meeting and bullied us out of the core, damaging the commerce of thousands of merchants and inconveniencing the entire population. Then, they failed to protect our property,":

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/article/829601--g20-editorial-brutal-spectacle-failed-a-city-and-its-people?bn=1

"Would the security problems have been reduced if, as Toronto Mayor David Miller had suggested, the main meeting place had been at Exhibition Place instead of the convention centre (Harper's choice)?":
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/article/829515--call-inquiry-on-g20-mayhem

National Post:
"But seeing my proud city on her knees, knowing that the photos sent around the world show Toronto not at her finest, but rather in flames and shards of glass, I could feel nothing but sadness.":
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/06/28/sadness-remains-on-torontos-streets/

 

[George Wallace]

I'm also guessing a lot of police overtime (at all levels) was racked up going into and through this, too.  If possible, it would be nice to see that broken out as well.

Let's see.  Police from across Canada working 17 to 18 hour shifts in TO collecting overtime.  Police at those members' Forces back home covering their shifts working on over time.  You can bet that quite a few, perhaps twice as many officers as employed in TO, are collecting six figure pay checks this year (don't forget the Olympics, and now the Royal Visit).

 

[mariomike]

Let's see.  Police from across Canada working 17 to 18 hour shifts in TO collecting overtime.  Police at those members' Forces back home covering their shifts working on over time.  You can bet that quite a few, perhaps twice as many officers as employed in TO, are collecting six figure pay checks this year (don't forget the Olympics, and now the Royal Visit).

Also Gay Pride, which I think is next week-end. From what I understand, it is the biggest such event in the world. Then Caribana, another big event in the city.
I think Toronto is the most ( or one of the most ) multi-cultural cities in the world, so World Cup celebrations are always major events.
There is so much going on now. The Santa Claus Parade used to be the big event in this town!

 

[The Bread Guy]

Let's see.  Police from across Canada working 17 to 18 hour shifts in TO collecting overtime.  Police at those members' Forces back home covering their shifts working on over time.  You can bet that quite a few, perhaps twice as many officers as employed in TO, are collecting six figure pay checks this year (don't forget the Olympics, and now the Royal Visit).

Given that, we can expect to see an even longer than usual "Sunshine List", at least for police officers in Ontario, next year.

 

[Larkvall]

One of the things that really baffled me was yesterday's bike rally. Yes they were peaceful, but for crying out why would they protest during the G20 as their cause is solely local? Why make a bad traffic situation worse? They didn't gain any friends.

I also got a kick out of those guys complaining about the makeshift detention centre. They should have had some fun (scared straight style) and brought in some prisoners from high security prisons to keep the protesters company.