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Future Armour

Active armour is becoming a hot topic now that some post battle analysis has filtered out of the Lebenon war. For my own part, I would not really want to depend on something like this, especially in a built up area or close terrain where clutter and short sight lines would degrade it, nor would I want to be a dismounted troop near this when it is active. A crew commander might regret being heads up as well....... :o

http://mesowest.blogspot.com/2006/12/lets-arm-our-tanks-apcs-now.html

Let's Arm our Tanks, APC's Now

As many suspected, Israel backed out of Lebanon for some very good reasons: their tanks were no match for the anti-armour rockets supplied to Hezbollah by Iran.

According to Israeli newspaper HAARETZ, the the French Matis and the Russian Kornet, are capable of penetrating the armor of the Merkava Mark IV, which is considered to be the most heavily armored tank in the world. In response, the Israel Defense Force is equipping its tanks -- and maybe its APC's -- with the Trophy anti-missile system.

HAARETZ says the United States is also considering the use of the Trophy on its Stryker fighting vehicles. Stryker's are another version of the LAV III used by Canada (and made in Canada).

It's not cheap, but if proven, it'll be worth it for Canada to buy the same units to protect Canadian lives in Afghanistan. Write your MP and ask for anti-armour defence.

I don't suppose the Libbers and Dippers, who constantly say they're interested in our soldiers' safety will support something like this that actually makes them safer.

What to do? Alternatives to active or explosive reactive armour (ERA) would include Non Explosive Reactive Armour (NERA), which has a liquid or plastic material forced into hollow armour blocks under pressure. When penetrated the material attempts to flow out, disrupting the plasma jet of a HEAT round and destabilizing a kinetic energy penetrator. Old fashioned "stand off" armour, like the "birdcage" works well against HEAT, and the Swedes discovered a "picket fence" of steel rods mounted on the bow of an "S Tank" was pretty good at protecting the frontal arc against KE penetrators (and would detonate HEAT rounds as well).

The book still hasn't been finished on passive protection, and the laws of physics can probably be tweaked to provide many other lightweight alternatives to huge slabs of steel and ceramic.


 
Or perhaps ramp up the pursuit of better all arms cooperation on the battlefield as well as seeking a new asymmetric paradigm? E.g., The Germans overran France in 6 weeks with tanks and numbers that were much inferior to the French and other allied armies, who had the best armed and armoured tanks on the battlefield at that time. What the allied armies lacked was the excellent ground/air/all arms cooperation of the Blitzkrieg, as well as a foreign policy that failed in the face of Nazi cunning. Britain and the IRA didn't start 'winning' in Northern Ireland until they moved away from a mainly military solution to a more holistic, or 'asymmetric' strategy that included a political solution. It can be argued that recent Israeli failrues in Lebanon have been primarily failures in all arms cooperation and diplomacy, as opposed to deficiencies with the Merkava.

IMHO, our prevailing doctrinal paradigms can cause our defeat more effectively than our inferior equipment (unless we're talking about the LSVW, of course!).
 
The latest trend is to attempt to package fighting vehicles to be smaller and lighter, but at the same time, to try to get as much firepower as possible (105 or 120mm cannons). An interesting overview

http://www.armada.ch/06-6/article-full.cfm

Big Guns, Small Platforms

Developments are underway to provide light vehicles, both wheeled and tracked, with firepower similar to existing main battle tanks.

Ian Kemp, inputs from Eric H. Biass 

The present generations of main battle tanks, such as the General Dynamics Land Systems M1A2, the Nexter (formerly Giat) Leclerc and the Krauss Maffei Wegmann Leopard 2, are expected to remain in service until 2030 or even 2040. Several armies are already planning projects to enhance the effectiveness of their fleets, particularly for urban operations. All armies with aspirations to project power agree with the need to replace heavy tanks with smaller platforms that are easier to deploy by air and sea yet offer the same, if not better, firepower. Several vehicles, such as the French Army’s Nexter 6 x 6 AMX-10RC reconnaissance vehicle and the Iveco-Oto Melara 8 x 8 Centauro tank destroyer, already combine a smaller chassis with a 105 mm gun; and the trend to fit 105 and 120 mm guns on lighter armoured fighting vehicles is gaining momentum. Nexter had developed a fire-on-the-move version of the TML105, which underwent thorough testing on the Vextra 8 x 8 demonstrator in the late 1990s. The turret was also mounted on a Piranha 10 x 10 for test purposes.

The 120 Fer; Nexter’s new-generation light vehicle weapon

Latest Developments

At Eurosatory 2006 Giat displayed a weapon that resembled that of the Leclerc’s main armament. Designated the ‘120 Fer’, this is in fact a modified Leclerc F1 gun system intended for a demonstrator which the company started to develop on its own funds in the early 2000s. Armada recently spoke to Beatrice Crenn, an advanced studies engineer at Nexter who explained that this was part of a two-stage programme: the first will see the weapon being tested, and the second will culminate with the system actually mounted in a demonstrator turret known as the 120 Pole and put through its paces on a light vehicle around 2011. Once the acronyms are deciphered, the aim of the project becomes quite clear: Fer stands for ‘Faible Effet de Recul’ (or low recoil effect) and Pole for ‘POrteur Leger’ (light carrier) – a vehicle in the 25-tonne class.

With such tonnages in the crosshairs, the fist challenge is, quite naturally, to reduce the recoil. This is being achieved by the adoption of a high effect muzzle brake with an efficiency of over 40% and the redesign of the cradle which incorporates a single (and already patented) recoil brake resulting in a recoil stroke of about the “length of an {human} arm”, according to Crenn.

With the project still at definition stage it is almost by definition impossible to anticipate on what the configuration, the materials and the systems that will eventually be used. Nevertheless, the Pole turret will have an autoloader. Initially this will be an almost standard Leclerc unit, but there is no doubt that the demonstrator will show which modifications will be required for a production unit. Indeed, the rather long recoil of the gun will undoubtedly pose interesting integration challenges.

The Pole is quite clearly aimed at the EBXX vehicle programme, but there is, on the other hand, no reason not to believe that it could find its way on the roof of the VBCI, which is much closer to us on the calendar.


MGS and AGS


In August 2006 the US Army fielded its first production General Dynamics M1128 Stryker Mobile Gun Systems (MGS) to the 2nd Infantry Division’s 4th Brigade at Fort Lewis, Washington. It is the last of the ten Stryker variants ordered in November 2000 under a $ four billion contract to equip six brigades with 2131 Strykers by 2009. The army has recently ordered additional vehicles to equip a seventh brigade. The Stryker MGS is equipped with a General Dynamics Low Profile Turret (LPT) armed with an M68A1 105 mm gun (recycled from early production M1 tanks) fed by an automatic loader, thus enabling the vehicle to operate with a crew of only three (commander, gunner and driver). The LPT offers significant weight savings over a conventional turret and provides a much smaller target, but getting the autoloader to function properly was one of several problems that delayed the vehicle’s entry into service. In the latest design the autoloader’s eight-round carousel magazine feeds shells into the breech and a ten-round replenisher mounted in the rear of the Stryker’s hull refills the magazine.

The largest unit to be equipped with the Stryker MGS will be the platoon of three vehicles that forms an integral part of each Stryker infantry company, thus giving each brigade a total of 27 M1128s. The service continually stresses that the role of the Stryker MGS is not to engage tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles but to provide direct fire for the infantry. “Its primary function is blowing a hole in the wall or blowing up bunkers,” stated an MGS instructor from the Armor School at Fort Knox. The Mobile Gun System will use four types of 105 mm tactical ammunition: high explosive/high explosive plastic (HE/Hep) rounds to blow holes in walls, canister rounds for use against dismounted infantry in the open, kinetic energy (KE) ammunition to defeat Level II armoured vehicles and high explosive, anti-tank (Heat) rounds to defeat other armoured vehicles.


An instructor from General Dynamics Land Systems briefs crews on the newly delivered Stryker Mobile Gun System (MGS) at Fort Lewis, Washington in August.  (US Army)


Engaging main battle tanks will, however, remain the primary function of the US Army’s 120 mm M1 to well beyond 2030. Within the Future Combat Systems project General Dynamics is developing the Mounted Combat System (MCS), which is intended to begin replacing the M1 from the second half of the next decade. The project is intended to provide better lethality, survivability and mobility than the 70-tonne M1A2 in a vehicle weighting about 25 tonnes. A high level of automation is crucial to the design, as the MCS will only have a two-member crew, although that provision may allow it to carry two passengers. Under a co-operative research and development agreement between the manufacturer and the army’s Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center, the US Army’s Benet Laboratories is developing the XM360 lightweight 120 mm gun for the MCS. This is intended to provide both line-of-sight and beyond-line-of-sight fire capability and will fire the same ammunition types as the M1A1/M1A2. The XM 360’s features include: a gun mount with a modular recoil mechanism, an electrically actuated multi-lug breech, a cannon tube with integral pepperpot muzzle brake to reduce recoil forces, a blast deflector to reduce the overpressure directed back toward the vehicle and a gun tube shroud to mitigate the effects of environmental conditions. Under an Advanced Technology Demonstration programme a prototype began firing tests at Aberdeen Proving Ground in November 2004. Under present plans for the System Development and Demonstration phase nine guns will be delivered between 2007 and 2009 for further testing and six guns will be delivered between 2009 and 2010 for integration into pre-production vehicles. The weapon will have the capability to destroy beyond-line-of-sight targets at ranges up to eight kilometres. The secondary armament will consist of a 12.7 mm machine gun and a 40 mm grenade launcher.


General Dynamics Land System and the US Army’s Benet Laboratories is developing the XM360 lightweight 120 mm gun for the Future Combat System Mounted Combat System. A range of innovative technologies is intended to keep the weight of the MCS to about 25 tonnes. (US Army)


The US Army came to close fielding an autoloader in the mid-1990s onboard the United Defence (now BAE Systems Land Systems) M8 Armored Gun System (AGS) developed as an easily air-transportable vehicle that could replace the M551 Sheridan light airborne tank in service with the 82nd Airborne Division. The M8 was armed with a 105 mm M35 soft recoil rifled gun mounted in an all-welded aluminium turret. The autoloader carried 21 rounds of ready-to-use ammunition and a further nine rounds were stowed in the vehicle. Three armour packages were available, depending on the anticipated threat: level one weighed 18,052, level two 20,820 kg and level three 23,586 kg. Although the M8 was declared ‘production ready’ in October 1995, the project was cancelled the following year. The company continued to market the system in Europe, Asia and the Middle East. BAE Systems has further developed the M8 to produce the 120 AGS Thunderbolt armed with a 120 mm Low Recoil Force smoothbore gun fed by an autoloader with 18 ready-to-use rounds. A computerised FCS provides a high first-round hit capability by both day and night. The vehicle has a combat weight of 20,142 kg.


Oto Melara 105/52




The Italian Army operates 400 CIO Centauro vehicles armed with a stabilised 105 mm/52-calibre long recoil rifled tank gun (left) that fires standard Nato ammunition. Oto Melara developed a prototype Hitfact turret for the Centauro armed with the company’s 120 mm smoothbore gun. (Oto Melara)


As early as 1984 the Italian Army developed a requirement for a wheeled tank-destroyer armed with a Nato standard 105 mm rifled tank gun – following this the first of 400 Iveco-Oto Melara 8 x 8 Centauros was delivered to the Esercito in 1991, with deliveries continuing until 1996. The Centauro is armed with a stabilised, 105 mm/52–calibre, long recoil, rifled tank gun, designed by Oto-Melara, which fires Nato standard ammunition. The vehicle is fitted the same Galileo Avionica Turms (Tank Universal Reconfigurable Modular Systems) fire control system as the service’s 120 mm-armed Ariete tank. The last 150 vehicles produced for Italy were modified so that the standard 40-round ammunition load can be reduced to enable four troops to be carried in the rear compartment. In standard configuration the Centauro weighs 25 tonnes, although up to three tonnes of additional passive or reactive armour can be added if the threat warrants.

The Centauro showed its worth during Nato-led peacekeeping operations in Bosnia and Kosovo during the 1990s, when the combination of firepower and tactical mobility meant that Centauro units were often assigned the role of theatre reserve. The Centauro will be the primary armoured fighting vehicle of the Italian Army’s three medium brigades that are now being organised. Five additional Centauro variants are under development: an IFV fitted with an Oto Melara Hitfist turret armed with a 25 mm Oerlikon KBA cannon, a 120 mm mortar carrier, a command post, a recovery vehicle and an ambulance. The Spanish Army has bought 88 Centauros that were delivered in two batches from 2000. For the export market Oto Melara developed a prototype Hitfact turret for the Centauro armed with the company’s 120 mm smoothbore gun, thus making the Centauro the first wheeled vehicle to offer main battle tank power. The new all-welded aluminium turret, which has a layer of appliqué amour, retains a crew of three but is lighter than the original all-welded steel turret.


CMI (Cockerill) claims that the penetration capabilities with the new Mecar M1060CV APFSDS-T ammunition (on the right) are superior to any 105 mm APFSDS-T ammunition now in Nato service. (Armada/EHB)



Pandur II


The Steyr-Daimler-Puch Spezialfahrzeug, the Austrian component of General Dynamics European Land Combat Systems, has sold its Pandur II vehicle to the Czech Republic and to Portugal. The 6 x 6 Pandur II is offered with a 90 mm gun turret while the 8 x 8 vehicle can carry a 105 mm gun. The Portuguese Ministry of Defence became the launch customer for the Pandur II when it awarded Steyr a € 365 million contract in February 2005 for 260 8 x 8 vehicles to equip its army and marine corps. Deliveries will begin in 2007 and continue until 2010. Variants on order include infantry carrier vehicles, infantry fighting vehicles, 120 mm mortar carriers, 16 command posts and anti-tank vehicles. The contract also includes an option, which expires in February 2007, for 33 105 mm Mobile Cannon Systems but the army has yet to define its turret requirement. The 6 x 6 Pandur II is offered with a range of turrets that can be armed with weapons as large as a 90 mm gun, while the 8 x 8 version can carry a 105 mm gun turret. Ascod, a joint venture of Steyr and Santa Barbara Sistemas (also now part of the General Dynamics), has demonstrated no fewer than three 105 mm turrets on the Ascod infantry fighting vehicle: the Oto Melara 105LRF turret, the Denel LMT-105 turret developed for the South African Army’s Rooikat 8 x 8 and the General Dynamics LPT.


The Belgian Army will replace its Leopard 1A5BE tank with the Mowag Piranha IIIC carrying CMI Defence’s LCTS-90 turret armed with the Cockerill Mk 8 90 mm gun. (CMI Defence)



Cockerill LCTS-90


In February 2006 the Belgian Army announced that it will replace its fleet of 132 Leopard 1A5BE tanks, Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicles and M113 armoured personnel carriers with 242 Piranha IIIC 8 × 8s in seven variants, including 40 vehicles fitted with a Cockerill LCTS-90 turret mounting a Mk 8 90 mm gun. The LCTS-90 was developed by the Belgian company to provide vehicles in the 10- to 20-tonne class with “similar anti-tank capabilities as heavier tanks using 105 mm weapons”. The Mk 8 fires a complete family of high-performance ammunition including APFSDS-T and Hesh-T. It originally was anticipated that the army would select the company’s new CT-CV turret armed with the recently developed CV 105 mm/53-calibre low-recoil rifled gun.


The BAE Hägglunds CV90 120T tank carries 45 rounds for its Ruag 120mm low-recoil smoothbore L50 Compact Tang Gun. The vehicle is designed to be carried by the airbus Military 400 M transport aircraft. (BAE)


An autoloader with 16 ready rounds in the standard configuration allows a maximum rate of fire of six to eight per minute. The gun can be elevated up to 42° providing a beyond-line-of-sight capability of up to 10,000 metres firing Hep-T ammunition. The modular design of the CT-CV turret allows it to be tailored to match a customer’s requirements. For example, secondary armament choices include a 7.62 mm or .50-calibre coaxial machine gun and a remote weapon station armed with a 7.62 mm machine gun, a .50-calibre machine-gun or a 40 mm automatic grenade launcher. The turret weighs less than 4000 kg, without add-on armour or ammunition, thus enabling a vehicle such as the Piranha III to ride in a C-130 Hercules transport aircraft.

BAE Hägglunds has received orders for 1125 tracked Combat Vehicle 90 (CV90) variants from six customers, although the CV90120-T tank is still awaiting a launch customer. Developed as a private venture in the late 1990s the vehicle mounts a three-person turret armed with a Swiss Ruag Land Systems 120 mm low-recoil smoothbore L50 Compact Tank Gun on a strengthened chassis. The gun can fire all types of current and projected 120 mm ammunition. Twelve ready-to-use 120 mm rounds are carried in a semi-automatic magazine located in the turret bustle with a further 33 carried in the rear of the hull. The vehicle is fitted with three sights: a Thales Optronics Day/Night Gun Sight for the commander, a SaabTech Vetronics Universal Tank and Anti-Aircraft System for the gunner and a SaabTech Vetronics Panoramic Low Signature Sight System, which can be used by the commander or the loader. The first CV90120-T prototype was completed in 1999 but work has continued to incorporate development in such areas as electronics and active protection culminating in the latest prototype exhibited at Eurosatory 2006 in June. With a combat weight of about 32 tonnes, depending upon the level of protection fitted, the vehicle could be carried by the Airbus Military A400M transport aircraft. The project remains at the prototype stage.


The Falcon II reduced silhouette turret developed by the King Abdullah II Design and Development Bureau (KADDB) as a possible upgrade for Jordan’s fleet of ex-British Army Challenger 1 MBTs is armed with Ruag’s L50 120 mm smoothbore Compact Tank Gun. (KADDB)


The Ruag L50 Compact Tank Gun is central to two projects being undertaken by Jordan’s King Abdullah II Design and Development Bureau (KADDB). In collaboration with Mechanology Industries and IST, both of South Africa, KADDB developed the Falcon II 120 mm overhead weapon system. An eleven-round auto-loader developed by FHL in Britain is mounted in the bustle and an additional 17 rounds can be stowed below the turret ring. The Falcon was developed as a possible upgrade for the Jordan’s fleet of ex-British Army Challenger 1s (known as the Al-Hussein). However, at Jordan’s Sofex exhibition in March 2006 it was announced that the Jordan Armed Forces had awarded KADDB a contract to fit its Al-Hussein Hybrid Turrets (AHT) to four tanks. The project involves replacing the tank’s original L11 120 mm rifled gun with the L50 120 mm smoothbore and the Integrated Fire Control System developed by Raytheon. The AHT demonstrator was unveiled at Sofex 2004 and successfully completed live fire integration trials in Switzerland later that year. Improvements since then include the installation of a 21-round loader-assist device, also developed by FHL, mounted in the turret’s bustle. If trials, scheduled to begin late 2006, are successful the army hopes to award a production contract early in 2007.

KADDB is collaborating with Mechanology and IST to develop a new modular family of wheeled and tracked vehicles named World Conqueror. The heaviest variant of the tracked World Conqueror family is expected to able to a carry a 90 mm, 105 mm or 120 mm high-velocity gun, although it has a projected maximum weight of only 22 tonnes. This could provide an application for the Falcon turret.
 
My only quibble with this article is it causes a phrase from a news report out of Afghanistan yesterday to echo in my head
"....after a half hour barage from Canadian tanks....." 
Big gun on a small hull leaves you with what in the carousel?  As a cheap direct fire round, the tank brings quantity to the table.  If you have a big gun/small hull/few rounds, you may as well have used missiles, as you will be lucky to sustain a skirmish worth of fire before shooting your magazines dry, or limiting yourself to one ammunition type in order to have enough rounds even to skirmish, let alone sustain a battle.  If you are going with a small hull, stick with a small gun.  For infantry support a lighter round and more ammunition is better.  As a tank, a big tank killing round, large supply of specialty ammunition for most contingencies becomes possible, but even the biggest tanks have to pick and choose their load out.
 
What's the advantage of smooth bore and rifled bores?
 
It looks to me like they are still looking at designs based on conventional warfare and not taking into account the realities of the last few years.  Lighter wheeled vehicles, no matter how heavily armed, have their own vulnerabilities in a battle situation like we are seeing in Afghanistan.  At the same time, there are new technologies coming out all the time and who can say what might be available for armour in ten years? 

GAP said:
What's the advantage of smooth bore and rifled bores?
There is a bit of give and take when you compare smooth bore and rifled.  Rifled barrels tend to have a more accurate lethal range than a smoothbore but at the same time they also have a shorter life.  The rifling wears down over time and the barrel needs to be replaced.  There is also more pressure on the breech and barrel when the barrel is rifled.

On the other hand, the smooth bore is less accurate at longer distances but can fire a larger range of ammunition.  It can be used for kinetic energy type rounds and missiles as well as canister (depending on actual gun design).  One major drawback to the smoothbore is that in situations like we are facing in Afghanistan they cannot fire HESH rounds which are very effective against mud walls and concrete.
 
mainerjohnthomas said:
My only quibble with this article is it causes a phrase from a news report out of Afghanistan yesterday to echo in my head
"....after a half hour barage from Canadian tanks....." 
Big gun on a small hull leaves you with what in the carousel?  As a cheap direct fire round, the tank brings quantity to the table.  If you have a big gun/small hull/few rounds, you may as well have used missiles, as you will be lucky to sustain a skirmish worth of fire before shooting your magazines dry, or limiting yourself to one ammunition type in order to have enough rounds even to skirmish, let alone sustain a battle.  If you are going with a small hull, stick with a small gun.  For infantry support a lighter round and more ammunition is better.  As a tank, a big tank killing round, large supply of specialty ammunition for most contingencies becomes possible, but even the biggest tanks have to pick and choose their load out.

No quibbles here, this just seems to be the trend the "big heads" around the world are following.

Frankly, if this is really the way to go, then the entire layout of the AFV needs to be rethought. The CASR site once had an article on a fire support vehicle design which was about 1/3 the size of the MGS yet packed a 155mm cannon and fed it out of a 30 round carousel. (Before you say "T-64" the turret was separate from the crew compartment). Much of the size and weight savings related to the suspension and drive train, while the vehicle was wheeled, the wheels were fixed and the vehicle "skid steered" like an Argo ATV, Bobcat construction vehicle or AMX-10 RC armoured car. It would be interesting to build a prototype and see if these ideas can transition from CAD to the real world.

I am attaching some pictures of designs which are out of the box, no one design can be considered "right", but if (big if) future armour is constrained in size and weight for strategic and operational reasons (i.e. transport and logistics support), and also needs to be able to fight "off the ramp", then current designs just won't cut it.
 
These designs are not new.  They have been around since the late 1970's and early 1980's.  The MGS is the most recent of these designs, and all of them have the same problems that we have laid out in all our discussions on the MGS.  Primary issue being the SA of the commander and crew.  In any design that puts the gun and platform in a position to block 50% of the Commander's vision there is a problem.  Having a vehicle that is susceptible to exposure over a crestline without the Commander's knowledge is another problem.  The commander should be able to see over a crest before his vehicle and weapons system is exposed, without standing on top of his vehicle/turret unprotected/fully exposed to enemy fire.  Driving behind cover or a crest and having a weapons system fully exposed to the enemy's sight, telegraphs to the enemy what your movements are.  I think many of these reasons and more, have kept these designs from seeing production.
 
George is right. 

At some point, a real soldier looks at the mock-up and says "How do I safely command this vehicle on an Autobahn full of civilian traffic?" During the following stunned silence, you could hear a pocket protector drop.

He follows that with "What happens if all of the FCS craps out?  Do we just become spam-in-a-can, because we are blind?"

"How do I give hand signals to my other call signs?"

"How do we watch for hostile air attack?"

Design Engineers hate it when you impose the practical world on their theory.  Look at what happened to Capt S____ in the early 90s:  He was sent from the Armour School to LETE where the civs were mocking up a Leopard C1 for the new TCCCS radio family.  They were FUBAR'd.  They had boxes outside that would be immersed during deep fording (they didn't know the tanks did that).  They had a box that was located in the perfect spot for the loader to shatter his right elbow on it when loading the main armament (they had no idea 105mm tank rounds were that long - they had never even seen a drill round) and so on.  Capt S____ came back to the School shaking his head.

"So," I asked, "when are you going back?"

"They never want to see me again!"  he said.

Design engineers are like children - they need MAXIMUM supervision.

 
I have no quibbles with what you are saying George. The problem lies in trying to adapt traditional designs to fit a fairly radical new set of parameters (i.e. be air transportable by C-130 and able to go into action right off the airplane). Conventional tanks and most AFV's/IFV's simply cannot do this, and the closest we can get right now takes 3 C-130 chalks to deliver one vehicle plus add on armour/fuel/munitions and the crew with the Stryker/MGS vehicles.

While we can debate the wisdom of assuming a vehicle able to fight off the ramp of a C-130, the "Big Heads" believe this to be the wave of the future, and so contractors will attempt to fulfill their wishes and "we" will have to learn how to use and fight out of these vehicles. Since traditional layouts won't meet the C-130/fight off the ramp parameter, you might see something resembling an "S" tank when being transported and on the move, with a weapons mount that extends for firing. (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28961/post-481068.html#msg481068) This is the only design I have ever seen which seems to address both the technical needs for a small AFV with the "practical" needs of the crew while in action. How well this would actually work in practice is another question.
 
I believe the requirements to fit the vehicle into a C-130 really are unrealistic.  I think they came about due to the fact that we only had C-130's and nothing on the Strategic Level of Airlift capabilities.  Do we really require the capability to have a vehicle capable of Tactical Airlift?  With the purchase of C-17's we would have no problems carrying a fully combat capable and combat loaded vehicle into Theatre.  Once in Theatre, there would be no need for Tactical Airlift.  No need to have C-130's move them.
 
What are the length of airfields a C130 can land on versus C17? If they bare close, then we can probably more liberal on size of vehicle.  ;D
 
What I'm saying is once the vehicles are in Theatre, we don't need aircraft ferrying them about.  There are going to be Airheads large enough to facilitate C-17's, as there are now in Kabul and Kandahar.
 
Back in 02, KAF runway was cut in half.  One end was woked on, the other was active.  The BG came in on C-17s.  It also saw Hercs, Transalls, Cubs and so on.  Once both ends were ready, we flew out on C5B.

The "It won't fit on a Herc" argument was always an idiotic one, as the availability of foriegn aircraft was always better than the availability of Canadian Hercs.  Especially on long weekends.
 
Actually, the C-130 parameter was driven by the Americans, who were looking for not only strategic but also operational force projection (something on the order of embarking in Doha Quatar and deploying in Basra in a matter of hours). You can see the results not only in the "Medium Brigade" but also in the various iterations of the FCS program.

As a practical matter, I think they are barking up the wrong tree; if they were to retrofit M-1's, M-2's and all the other vehicles in the manoeuvre battalions and their supporting echelons with the sensor and communications devices of the FCS program, they will be 80% of where they want to be, and the protection and firepower of "heavy metal" equipment directed by such high end organizational tools will be an order of magnitude beyond any Western army, much less potential opponents. Rather amazingly, there is a very recent article which outlines this entire story:

http://govexec.com/dailyfed/092006nj1.htm

Future tanks could surprise critics
By Sydney J. Freedberg Jr., National Journal

Just seven years ago, every self-styled strategic thinker knew that history had ended, that the dot-com boom would last forever, and, in military circles, that the tank was dead. The steel behemoths that had ruled the plains of Europe for six decades were too ungainly for a new world order that required rapid deployment of troops to small conflicts across the globe.
In 1994, Chechen guerrillas armed only with rocket-propelled grenades had destroyed more than 200 Russian armored vehicles in 30 days, and the U.S. Army was so slow in deploying its heavy machinery to the Balkans in 1999 that the ground forces never participated in the war in Kosovo.

"Power is increasingly defined not by mass or size but by mobility and swiftness," then-presidential candidate George W. Bush said at the Citadel military academy in September 1999. "Yet, today our military is still organized more for Cold War threats than for the challenges of a new century -- for Industrial Age operations, rather than for Information Age battles."

Just three weeks later, Gen. Eric Shinseki, President Clinton's Army chief of staff, announced a "transformation" program to replace the Army's 70-ton M1 Abrams main battle tank with vehicles weighing less than 20 tons, light enough to be flown around the world into areas with only dirt landing strips.

This "Future Combat System," as the Army termed it, would be protected not by heavy armor but by a linked computer network of sensors, robots, and precision weapons designed to find and destroy the enemy from a distance.

September 11, 2001, seemed the final proof of lightweight warfare. Nineteen terrorists with box cutters bypassed the entire American military. The United States retaliated against Osama bin Laden and the Taliban in Afghanistan with special forces and smart bombs, but no tanks.

Sixteen months later, the Bush administration rebuked Shinseki for insisting on a larger, heavier ground force for the invasion of Iraq. But Iraq showed that the age of the armored dinosaur was not over after all.

It was 70-ton M1s and 34-ton M2 Bradley infantry carriers that spearheaded the Iraq invasion -- not only by racing across the open desert but also by pushing deep into downtown Baghdad, shrugging off the same RPGs that had destroyed the Russians in Grozny a decade before. And once the insurgency began, the nimble 2.6-ton Humvees that the Pentagon preferred for "low-intensity" operations proved fatally vulnerable to ambush by rocket-propelled grenades and improvised explosive devices.

It was the 70-ton Abrams that plowed through IEDs and RPGs as coalition forces retook Falluja and Najaf. As late as 2002, the Army's armor school at Fort Knox had been teaching tankers to bypass urban areas altogether. But in Iraqi cities today, said Col. David Hubner, who led armored forces into Samarra, "I'd tell my tankers, 'You should have the same mind-set as Tyrannosaurus rex. There's nobody who's going to take you out.' "

While heavy armor is crushing the enemy when called upon in Iraq, back in Washington, the Future Combat System is facing extinction. "The project is over budget, behind schedule, and probably impractical," declared a July cover of Congressional Quarterly; the headline inside was "Dream Army's Rude Awakening."

The FCS has four big problems. The first is financial: The Army is squabbling with outside estimators over whether the program as planned will cost $130 billion, $200 billion, or as much as $300 billion.

The second problem is technological: By the last independent assessment, the computer network protocols, the digital radios, the armed scout robots, the system to shoot down incoming RPGs -- all told, 32 of 49 "critical technologies" that make up the Future Combat System -- have been tested only as "basic technological components" and only in a "simulated environment."

The third challenge is physical: The vehicles that are the linchpin of the FCS have swelled to 26 tons, making them too heavy for the Air Force's standard C-130 transport but still too light to match the protection of the massive M1's armor.

The fourth obstacle is conceptual: The Army has crammed so many ideas into the FCS -- "18+1+1 Systems" (that is, 20 systems), including a computer network, seven kinds of robots, and eight kinds of manned vehicles, according to the latest official Pentagon white paper -- that even program officials struggle to describe what the goal of the FCS program actually is: an updated brigade, built around a light-to-medium-weight armored vehicle, which will be supported by many more computer networks, sensors, and robots than any current mechanized unit.

Yet when describing the FCS, Army spokesmen oscillate unconvincingly between impenetrable jargon such as "soldier-centric" and late-night infomercial-speak such as "see first, understand first, shoot first, and finish decisively!"

So the same vultures of conventional wisdom that circled the heavy tank just seven years ago are now eyeing the Future Combat System. In 1999, everyone said that tanks were too big and too hard to maneuver in a modern, unconventional war, especially in cities. In 2006, everyone says that FCS vehicles are too small and too delicate to survive in a modern, unconventional war, especially in cities. And now, as then, the conventional wisdom appears to be mostly wrong.

The Army's inarticulate enthusiasm for the FCS has fostered three self-defeating myths: that the 26-ton FCS vehicles will replace 70-ton M1s in every capacity; that FCS units will deploy en masse by air to anywhere in the world; and that FCS troops will outfight every enemy, from Arab insurgents to North Korean missiles, by substituting information technology for heavy armor.

Congress, think tanks, and reporters are understandably incredulous. "You've got to be careful not to be taken in by all this great revolutionary bullshit, because none of it is field-tested," said retired Army Col. Douglas MacGregor, a vitriolic and influential critic. But some very real lights are hidden under this bushel of unproven high-tech hype:

Although the Army will mothball some big tanks, FCS brigades will serve alongside heavy-armored units -- using today's M1 Abrams and M2 Bradleys upgraded with new electronics -- until well after 2020, providing a hedge against technological shortfalls or unexpected threats.

Whatever the limits of airlift, the hybrid-electric FCS vehicles will be much more fuel-efficient on land than the huge turbine-driven M1s -- which get half a mile to the gallon -- maneuvering more quickly and needing fewer of the supply convoys that have proven so fatally vulnerable in Iraq.

Whether their high-tech defenses materialize or not, the eight variants of the 26-ton FCS vehicle will have at least as much old-fashioned armor as anything today except the M1. In fact, of the 332 vehicles that run on tracks rather than tires in a current "heavy brigade," from mortar carriers to mobile command posts, 111 are lighter and less-armored than their proposed FCS replacements.

The revolutionary rhetoric was overblown from the beginning, and since 1999 the Army has quietly reinserted traditional military virtues into the program. As recently as April, for example, the Pentagon white paper depicted the FCS "reconnaissance and surveillance vehicle" as a lightly armed platform reliant on long-range sensors, but data given to National Journal in recent weeks show instead a heavily armed machine capable of fighting ambushes as it advances and sentries as it scouts ahead.

The FCS vehicles aren't well suited for head-on slogging matches with big enemy tanks -- that will remain the job of the massive M1 -- but they are arguably better than the M1 for the fluid wars of the future that will have no clear front line.

The truth about the Future Combat System is that it is far less revolutionary than the Army likes to claim. And that's a good thing: It means that it is far more likely to work than the critics believe.

You Say You Want a Revolution?

The U.S. is a superpower of technology. But American ingenuity goes only so far. This summer, after six years of sticking to a 20-ton ceiling for the FCS, the Army publicly accepted that some variants would weigh as much as 26 tons.

"There are too many compromises in an 18-ton vehicle," said Col. Charles Bush of the Army staff's Force Development Division. "The sweet spot is about 24 to 26 tons," he said. "At that weight, I can achieve most of my lethality, survivability, and deployability objectives."

At this weight, the Army says, the FCS can provide all-around protection against mines, the rocket-propelled grenades favored by guerrillas, and quick-firing cannon shells as large as 30 millimeters, the standard caliber of the guns on Russian-made infantry carriers.

An FCS vehicle won't stop the 125 mm shells fired by larger Russian-made tanks -- in both wars with Iraq, shells fired by such tanks bounced off the M1's front armor -- but an FCS vehicle will provide protection equal to that of the M1's side and rear, and to the armor on all sides of the latest-model M2A3 Bradleys that have accompanied the bigger tanks deep into Baghdad, Falluja, and Najaf.

In fact, the infantry carrier variant of the FCS closely resembles the Bradley. The FCS vehicle has a slightly larger gun, 30 millimeters instead of 25; it loses the Bradley's TOW anti-tank missiles, which have seen little use against Iraqi insurgents and which fly so slowly that a targeted tank could fire back, lethally, before they hit; and the FCS has double the carrying capacity -- a full squad of nine infantrymen instead of the Bradley's four to six.

And the quarter-century of materials research since the Bradley's basic structure was designed in the 1970s has made it possible to get the same protection in a 26-ton vehicle as in the old 34-ton tank.

Another evolutionary improvement lost in the revolutionary hype is that almost every bit of super-technology being developed for the FCS could be installed on the M2 Bradley or the M1 Abrams. Shinseki's successor as chief of staff, Gen. Peter Schoomaker, has repeatedly overhauled the FCS program, ultimately delaying deployment of a fully FCS-equipped brigade by four years (to 2016). But he has ensured that current armored vehicles will be retrofitted with selected FCS technologies.

Even the computerized communications-and-command network -- the fundamental system linking all of the FCS's disparate parts -- builds on a principle a decade old. In 1997, the Army tested a prototype of such a network on every M1 tank and Bradley in an armored brigade, and then expanded it to an entire division. In 2003, a stripped-down version of that network, "Blue Force Tracker," was hastily installed on selected vehicles of other Army and Marine units going into Iraq. Troops have increasingly come to rely on the new technology.

"It was great to be able to look on the screen and see blue icons" representing friendly units, said Capt. Sam Donnelly, a staffer for a battalion command post during the Iraq invasion. "But our primary means of command-and-control was an FM radio, a map, and thumbtacks." As the campaign progressed, however, troops warmed to the new system -- and as units dispersed beyond the effective ranges of their Cold War radios, Donnelly said, "the only real contact we had with them was through [network] text message."

Still, the weakness of the improved communications network was the lack of good information. Donnelly's unit fought through repeated ambushes, and the Army nearly lost a critical bridge over the Euphrates, "Objective Peach," because neither scouts nor spy planes nor sensors spotted 8,000 Iraqis with 70 armored vehicles lurking under old-fashioned camouflage until they counterattacked. Since then, network upgrades and more unmanned drones have hardly made U.S. forces immune to surprise attacks.

The Stryker Experience

One way to judge whether the FCS vehicles will work is to look at the Army's other light-armored solution to modern warfare: the Stryker, a personnel carrier that moves on giant rubber tires instead of tracks and, in its 19-ton basic configuration, doesn't stop anything bigger than a .50-caliber bullet.

Ordered in 2000 as an "interim" step toward the FCS, Strykers were supposed to substitute information for mass. They were battle-tested in Iraq, where they came protected not only by their new electronics but also by an extra 2.5 tons of old-fashioned armor.

That additional metal made a difference, said Lt. Col. Michael Gibler, who was a battalion commander in the eastern half of Mosul in 2004 and 2005: "Twenty-seven RPGs hit Strykers in my battalion alone; not one of them penetrated." His unit of 70 Strykers was also hit by 250 roadside bombs and car bombs: "My vehicle was hit by three; my sergeant major's was hit by five," he recalled. "I only lost one soldier to an IED. He was exposed in an [open] hatch." Although both critics and cheerleaders call Stryker and the FCS an unprecedented lightening of the Army, these systems are actually a turn toward heavier forces in the long struggle toward quick deployment. Gibler's battalion, for example, is much heavier today than it was before the Shinseki era.

The unit had been stripped of its armored vehicles and heavy artillery in the early 1980s, when the enemy was the newly Islamic Iran that threatened interruption of vital oil supplies far from established U.S. bases. The Army tried to create a force that could be deployed quickly to the Middle East by air: first, the "Rapid Deployment Force"; then an experimental "High-Technology Light Division," with air-droppable armored vehicles and missile-shooting dune buggies. The end result was plain old "light divisions" consisting of foot soldiers, towed artillery pieces, and a handful of Humvees.

The unit that actually did dash by air to Saudi Arabia in 1990, after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, was the 82nd Airborne, a division of foot soldiers backed by a handful of air-deployable but notoriously breakdown-prone M551 Sheridan light tanks. The 82nd's troops had so much less firepower and mobility than the Iraqi tank divisions arrayed against them, and so little hope of stopping an attack, that they bitterly called themselves "the speed bump."

But Saddam's tanks stayed put in Kuwait, and the heavy U.S. M1 tanks, M2 infantry carriers, and self-propelled M109 howitzers arrived by sea to devastate the Iraqi armor. So, in the drawdown that followed the Persian Gulf War victory, the Army sacrificed its light forces to save the heavies.

In 1996, Gen. Dennis Reimer, the Army chief of staff, not only phased out the Airborne's last M551 Sheridans, the only air-deployable armored fighting vehicle in service, but also canceled its replacement, the M8 Armored Gun System, which could be stripped down to 19 tons for airlift and then beefed up to 26 tons with bolt-on armor -- the same weight as an FCS machine fully loaded for combat.

Armored Gun Resurrected

The Army missed this light-armored capability just three years later in 1999, when its heavy forces struggled to quickly deploy from Germany south to the Balkans, and missed it even more in 2003, when Turkey denied U.S. forces permission to cross its territory into Iraq.

Instead of the 15,000 soldiers and 1,500 armored vehicles of the 4th Infantry Division, the northern front shrank to the 2,000 foot soldiers of the 173rd Airborne Brigade, reinforced by just 41 Humvees, 15 M113 armored personnel carriers, five M2 Bradleys, and five M1 tanks, all laboriously delivered by air.

The elite Airborne still managed to fight off much-larger Iraqi forces. But with so few vehicles, troops could not dash south to trap Saddam's loyalists before they retreated into his hometown of Tikrit and formed the first center of the insurgency.

Before a 2005 deployment to Afghanistan, the 82nd Airborne was "begging" to break the few Armored Gun System prototypes out of storage, said MacGregor, the Army critic, who considers the cancellation of the gun system one of the Army's great missed opportunities to fill the light-armored gap. "We've wasted years."

Maybe not so coincidentally, one of the FCS variants, called the "mounted combat" version, has a 120 mm cannon and looks a lot like an updated Armored Gun System vehicle. Described by many as "the replacement for the Abrams tank," the mounted combat FCS vehicle is actually nothing of the kind. It is the resurrection of a light-armored capability that the Army had for decades and then threw away.

What "lightweight" vehicles bring to battle is not just new electronics but also, ironically, more old-fashioned mass -- not to the tank brigades, which hardly need it, but to the light infantry, which desperately does. Bitter experience in Iraq shows that even up-armored Humvees are vulnerable to roadside bombs.

Robert Scales is a retired Army major general and an influential author who has fought for more light-armored vehicles since the mid-1990s, when he started the "Army After Next" war games that gave birth to the FCS. Scales has collected data from Korea, Vietnam, and Falluja showing that "soldiers mounted [in armored vehicles] are 10 times less likely to become casualties than soldiers who are not," he said. But "there's nothing in my data to relate thickness of armor to survivability," he added. Even light armor saves lives.

"Eighty-one percent of all deaths in combat since 1945 have been [among] dismounted infantry," said Scales, who is now a consultant to the FCS program. "Yet the Army's had 23 percent of the defense budget since 1952. That's why we go to war in Humvees."

The Mobility Myth

But armor is only half of the solution to the wars of the 21st century. The other half is speed -- deploying quickly to the war zone, and then maneuvering quickly within it. How to balance the weight of armor with the necessity for speed remains the Army's dilemma.

America is the superpower of the air, just as Britannia once ruled the waves. Still, the U.S. Air Force has its limits. The Army, however, based its Future Combat System on a naive faith in its sister service's ability to transport the equipment to any battlefield. Until this year, Army spokesmen insisted that the FCS vehicles would weigh less than 20 tons, making them light enough to fly in fleets of C-130 transports, land on dirt strips, and roll off ready to fight.

"The problem with that concept is that it was developed by tankers who didn't have a clue," said Robert Killebrew, a retired infantry colonel who worked for Scales in the war games of the 1990s and is now part of his team again. Killebrew, who served with the Special Forces in Vietnam, has commanded ad hoc dirt airstrips set up for C-130s, "and I'll tell you," he said, "you beat them to pieces with that kind of traffic; they cannot be maintained, they're easy targets for artillery and rockets -- and the Air Force doesn't have that many C-130s, anyway."

The United States has 514 C-130s. With each plane carrying one FCS vehicle -- still do-able with the current 26-ton design, if crews unbolt most of the armor, fly it separately, and then bolt it back on, a process the Army says should take less than eight hours -- it would take all 514 to lift a single brigade's 332 FCS armored vehicles and a reasonable amount of supplies.

But even that unlikely scenario wouldn't keep Shinseki's promise to "deploy a brigade anywhere in the world in 96 hours." Most C-130s, fully loaded, have a range of only 1,000 miles, a third of the way across the Atlantic.

The newer, larger C-17s can carry three FCS vehicles, fully armored, around the globe. But even the Air Force's boldest budget requests only 220 C-17s, which means a theoretical maximum carrying capacity of 660 FCS vehicles or, more realistically, one brigade with a few of its hundreds of supply trucks.

The dirty secret is that Scales and company never actually wanted the C-130 for rapid deployment overseas. They knew perfectly well that the plane's range was just too short. They wanted the C-130 to maneuver brigades in 500-mile sprints once they had arrived in the war theater, outflanking ground-bound enemies in an airborne blitzkrieg. Imagine being able to "drop five brigades around Baghdad," Scales told National Journal in 2003. "The war's over in a day."

Faced with the limits of air transport, the Army now talks of airlifting only about one-third of one brigade behind enemy lines: "We could move a battalion through the air in an operationally meaningful way," said Col. Robert Beckinger, the FCS manager for the Training and Doctrine Command.

That's dialing things way down from the war games of the mid-1990s. But it is still many more armored fighting vehicles than the United States ever moved by air before it gave up its last airmobile light armor in 1996.

Supply Trains

For all the romance of airborne war, it is when the FCS vehicles reach the ground that they could really speed up operations. Built to burn jet fuel, the M1 Abrams's turbine engine makes the 70-ton tank one of the fastest vehicles ever to fight once it's on the battlefield, but the long journey to that battlefield is painfully slow because of frequent stops for gas.

"Every eight hours, you're going to burn 300 gallons, whether it's moving or not," because the engine also powers the tank's electronics, said Capt. Ray Bolar, an Army tank officer who has served two tours in Iraq. Even compared with six months of fighting in Ramadi in 2005, Bolar said, being a supply officer in the 2003 invasion "was maybe the hardest thing I have ever done."

Driving around the clock, the M1s covered 350 miles in 72 hours, nearly 120 miles a day, twice as fast as Patton's 3rd Army moved in 1944. But the M1s had to pull into improvised refueling stops three times a day.

By Scales's count, unarmored fuel trucks made 30,000 supply runs, averaging 800 miles apiece, through Iraqi territory to keep the big tanks moving. Support units got scrambled in the process. "Some New Mexico National Guard guys somehow got roped in and followed us to Baghdad," Bolar said. "It was, 'You got fuel?'

'Yeah.... '

'You're coming with us.' "

That April, at the moment of U.S victory, commanders nearly withdrew the famously successful quick-strike "thunder runs" of tank columns into downtown Baghdad because of a supply shortage. Instead, they shut down their M1s for two hours while the more fuel-efficient M2 Bradleys stood watch. Meanwhile, in the fiercest fighting of the day, the rear guard escorted unarmored trucks full of volatile fuel and ammunition into the city.

To keep the road into the city open, Maj. Harry (Zan) Hornbuckle, then a captain, held a crucial highway intersection called "Objective Curly" through eight straight hours of fighting. "I didn't have any tanks," he said, and his five Bradleys had no extra armor, just external storage racks for his troops' equipment: "The RPGs would hit the duffel bags and detonate [prematurely]."

All of his vehicles, and all of his men, survived the fight. But when the unarmored supply column drove through, "a couple of fuelers and a couple of ammo trucks got destroyed," Hornbuckle recalled. "That was the only killed-in-action of the day."

Despite desperate retrofitting with armor, the supply convoys remain the most vulnerable part of the U.S. force in Iraq. "Most people don't understand how dependent M1s and Bradleys are on that logistical umbilical cord," Scales said. Heavy armor can smash into cities, he said, "but it can't stay there and control populations."

By contrast, Stryker units routinely kept their much lighter vehicles in downtown Mosul for three days at a time without resupply, said Lt. Col. Gibler. And in the Shiite uprising of 2004, one Stryker battalion drove 300 miles from Mosul to Al Kut in the south -- fighting insurgents along the way -- in 48 hours.

The Army contends that an FCS brigade will need 10 to 30 percent less fuel than today's heavy brigades, 66 percent fewer mechanics, and one-third fewer supply trucks. Defense programs from fighter jets to warships have promised, and failed, to deliver such efficiencies before -- although the goal is more realistic this time because "you couldn't design a less fuel-efficient engine than the M1's," Killebrew said.

The FCS prototype chassis now being completed is the first U.S. military vehicle with a hybrid-electric drive. That means not only better mileage on the go but also enough batteries to run electronics with the engine off, and even a lighter transmission.

All of the mundane machinery of the FCS benefits from 30 years of refinement since the M1 and the M2 were designed in the late 1970s, said Maj. Gen. Charles Cartwright, the FCS program manager. Compact electric motors replace bulky hydraulic and mechanical systems. High-strength rubber tracks replace traditional steel tracks, allowing for a lighter suspension and saving almost two tons of weight.

The 120 mm cannon uses the same ammunition as current versions but weighs about a ton less and has recoil systems that enable a 26-ton vehicle to withstand the shock. Unlike today's mix of M1s, M2s, M109s, and M113s, Cartwright added, "every one of these manned ground [FCS] vehicles has the same engine, a common computer, a common chassis." And the FCS vehicles simply have less mass to move and maintain.

The Replacement Myth

In 1999, Gen. Shinseki proposed replacing the entire Army armored infrastructure with a uniform force of Future Combat System vehicles. Skeptical Capitol Hill staffers joked about a "big-bang theory" of modernization.

But the money never matched the ambition. As early as 2000, Army officials and documents acknowledged that it would take decades to replace the last M1s and M2s. Today, the Army's budget plans call for equipping just 15 of its 42 active-duty brigades with FCS vehicles, with the first brigade fully fielded by 2016 and the last by 2020. Larger tanks will remain in service through at least 2035, said Rickey Smith, an Army "capabilities integration" expert.

And the service will equip many M1s and Bradleys with FCS electronics. An all-FCS force, Smith said, is something "the nation can't afford and wouldn't want."

Even ardent FCS advocate Scales emphasizes using combined arms -- all kinds of light and heavy forces -- rather than relying on a single silver bullet to fight any war. "You don't just dump a bunch of [FCS] vehicles in the midst of the enemy," he said.

Scales's war-fighting scheme has Special Forces scouting the ground first, then airborne Rangers seizing the landing strips, then C-17s carrying FCS raiding parties behind enemy lines -- acting as the winged hammer to an overland anvil of both FCS and heavy brigades, with M1s on hand to crack the toughest nuts.

Modern armies always mix battle-tested and cutting-edge weapons, said Bruce Gudmundsson, a retired Marine major and the author of the definitive trilogy On Armor, On Infantry, and On Artillery.

"FCS aficionados feel compelled to compete directly with the M1," he said, but the two systems are very different -- and complementary. "Adding networked, [light-] armored vehicles armed with precision-guided missiles to our armored forces is a good idea," Gudmundsson said. "Replacing traditional armored vehicles with them is not."

War remains a brutal business. As long as the physics of breaking human bodies stay the same, the sheer weight of metal will have its uses, just as does the finesse provided by training, tactics, and intelligence. For all of the Army's emphasis on information technology, the future force will need mass as well.

"It won't be perfect in any environment," Killebrew said of the FCS. But it will be more adaptable across all environments, a "nice balance" between the foot sloggers of the light infantry and the fuel hoggers of the heavy armor. And, he added, the unpleasant surprises of the last five years are proof that "the Army has got to have more balance than ever, because we don't know how future wars are going to be fought."
 
Looking at the "S Tank" again, I was surprised to see it had a 50 round magazine for the autoloader (usually 25 APDS, 20 HEAT and 5 Smoke), so a small vehicle can hold a useful amount of ammunition if well designed. Given the rather huge size of a LAV hull, I find it totally amazing the MGS only holds 16 rounds total (the CV_CT has that much ready ammunition in the bustle, and another 16 in the wine rack for a total of 32 rounds 105mm).

 
S tank does not have a real turret, nor the mechanism to make the turret go round n'round... so yeah, more room to store the Ammo. But, it can't manouver and fire at the same time cause the road wheels are involved in raising and lowering the main gun.

Also, from what I understand, they started building the MGS from a Stryker platform instead of the building a new platform with road wheels.  Think that, if we compare the S tank or Leo to a MGS, you'll find that the tracked vehicles are also wider - thus creating more room.....

But this is just IMHO
 
big difference between a 76mm shell and a 105mm projectile.
 
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