For those opposed to actions in the middle east

[Sig_Des]

Kick my ***?  Come on and try!  This is a political thread, dude.  I'm free to speak my piece.  I may not be a soldier but my folks are working for the government.  Civilians do sacrifice as much as soldiers do.

Try this one for size Artsee. You speak to Military Granny again, you bloody well do it with some respect. Not only is her son serving overseas, she also has given her voice as support to all serving and former members. You don't refer to her as "dude". I wish my mother had as much support for my military career.

Now, as far as myself, I think what's insulting is that you're insinuating that we're "pawns". You're minimizing what we've sworn to do, up to and including, as shown recently, by giving our lives. You're saying "good on you, but you're just being played by the system". Tell you what. You go down to the recruiting centre, pass the requirements, sign on the doted line, get some TI, and then you can give me your opinion. Until then, you're sounding pretty damned un-informed.

I may not be a soldier but my folks are working for the government.

So? That doesn't give you a better understanding of soldiers. See my above statement about signing.

We choose to join the military. We choose to sign our names. We choose to swear an oath. This means that we accept the responsibilities. We accept the fact that we may need to go to the armpits of the world where people will try to kill us. I guess some people will never accept it.

But, whatever. Like you said, you are free to speak your piece. Because our brothers and sisters have died to give you that freedom.

 

[Trinity]

Ok first of all I'm not defending Artsee or taking side here, but I do fail to see the offensive part in what he said.

I re-read his post a few times and I think that is the phrase getting to people's head.

"However, let's not commit the mistake of playing the American game."

No...

read some other posts in this thread... we've clearly posted what is found offensive.

For me, its calling the soldiers Victims, which has been already explained, thus I need not to.

 

[1feral1]

Ok first of all I'm not defending Artsee or taking side here, but I do fail to see the offensive part in what he said.

I re-read his post a few times and I think that is the phrase getting to people's head.

"However, let's not commit the mistake of playing the American game."

Think again Colin, and actually listen to what this person has actually said.

I don't need to hear my fellow countrymen who were killed as victims, nor do I need to be told by some 'visible minority' that all Americans are hated by everyone. That is nothing but crap, and if you can't see that, than you have a problem too. Freedom of speach is one thing, but this guy has crossed the line, and if you condone this behaviour, then you too are just as bad in my eyes!

As for the US game? Next you are going to tell me this war is all about oil! Its about extreme islam against us, and if we sat back and did nothing about Iraq, A-stan (next up Iran), and something big and bad happened, you'd be saying why didn't the US do anything and stop it?

Canadian involvement in A-Stan is not aiding in a US game, but an allied commitment to helping out in this war against extreme islam, and all it has to offer. After all there are people and many of them, right in Canada who would love to kill you and your family, not because of the colour of your skin, but because you are an unbeliever, like the majority of us.

Lets take the fight to the EN on his shores, not ours, though we know the seeds to this extreme end of this religion are already planted not only in Canada, but in western antions worldwide.

Wake up to yourself, or just keep your head in the sand, and continue to support the weak bleeding hearts out there.

As for Americans disguising themselves as Cdn tourists? Well, I tend to think this as more myth than fact, and living on the coast of The Coral Sea, and the fringe area of the Great Barrier Reef, I see many tourists here, Europeans, Canadians and Americans, many with 'old glory' flying proudly on their packs and bags, and I can assure you there are more proud Americans out there not ASHAMED of their flag, backpacking and touring, than a few occasional posers with our Cdn flag on their kit.

Overall thats a pisss weak statment which tends to put our southern neighbours as being ashamed to be American. That is definatly NOT true. At the ripe ole age of 24, you'll have to do much better than that.

In short, don't believe everything you hear. I should not have to be telling you this at your age.


Wes

 

[Collin.t]

Alright I get your points, I didn't took the designation "victims" the same way you did.

But please be a little bit more gentle toward different religions, I might be atheist but I respect other's believes and as far as I know the catholic church were not much better in history (anyone recalls the crusade, or the inquisition, or closer to our time the Duplessi chilrdren).

and on this I'm out of this discussion, cause honestly I don't really care about Artsee or his point of view on all this.

 

[1feral1]

But please be a little bit more gentle toward different religions, I might be atheist but I respect other's believes and as far as I know the catholic church were not much better in history (anyone recalls the crusade, or the inquisition, or closer to our time the Duplessi chilrdren).

So you fully support radical islam and their murderous acts????

Crusades and inquisitions? That was centuries ago, not yesterday! So you can stuff that thought.

Religion is one thing, but fanatical religion is another, especially when they are willing to blow themselves up and KILL you and others and when that invloves the murder in cold blood of normal every day folk, including children. Thats what I am pointing out, so don't go throwing the prejudicial/racial card around.

Get my point?

Wes

 

[DG-41]

So you fully support radical Islam and their murderous acts?

The Canadian involvement in Afghanistan is NOT "us vs Islam"; not even "us vs radical Islam".

We are there because an organized terrorist group used Afghanistan as a staging and training area with the tacit (perhaps explicit) support of the then-current government. These terrorists staged a successful attack against one of our allies. We went in to root out the terrorists and remove the government that supported them. We are now restoring the country to some degree of civilization and improving their quality of life to ensure that terrorists never again can use that country as a base of operations.

That the previous government happened to be an oppressive and morally bankrupt regime, and by removing them we restore freedom to the Afghan people, is a nice bonus. There is good karma in helping to improve the standard of living of people forced to live in dire poverty.

None of this has anything to do with Islam, save that the terrorists and the previous Afghan government claimed to be Islamic. They could have been Christian, Hindu, Shinto, Nazi, Fascist, or Communist, and we still would have taken the same action. Their religion is irrelevant.

Crusades and inquisitions? That was centuries ago, not yesterday!

Some people have long memories, and just as some are convinced that Afghanistan is "really" about oil, there are those who believe that Afghanistan and Iraq are "really" about Christians defeating Islam in a new Crusade (and it didn't help much when Bush called the mission in Iraq a "crusade") Any time someone on "our" side goes off about "radical Islam" we re-enforce that perception, to the detriment of the mission.

Your anger at the initial troll is well founded, especially given the timing. But please do not let your anger get the better of you to the point where you are giving the trolls ammunition.

DG

 

[1feral1]

Well, thats your opinion isn't it, and thats where we differ. I call it like it is, nothing PC about me or fighting this war.

Remember, the EN is one of these groups or any one who supports them, and thats the facts. If you think that extreme Islam is not one of the key problems here, well thats up to you, but infact thats what we are fighting. You don't think that AQ is part of this? Plus numerous splinter groups?

Regards,

Wes

 

[Trinity]

  Yeah, I'll make sure I get that flag in the latest baby harp seal colors...what a moron

BABY SEAL FLAGS....

i'll take two please 

 

[Collin.t]

  Yeah, I'll make sure I get that flag in the latest baby harp seal colors...what a moron

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6666338/
http://www.canadianmoose.com/souvenirs/
http://www.filibustercartoons.com/canguide_2_symbols_symbols.php

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - Planning a European vacation and don't want to talk American politics with an inquisitive foreigner? A New Mexico T-shirt company suggests going Canadian.

For $24.95, T-shirtKing.com offers the "Go Canadian" package, full of just the kind of things an American traveler can use to keep a vacation free of U.S. politics. There's a Canadian flag T-shirt, a Canadian flag lapel pin and a Canadian patch for luggage or a backpack. There's also a quick reference guide - "How to Speak Canadian, Eh?" - on answering questions about Canada.

from: http://nomadlife.org/2004/12/go-canadian.aspx

http://greg.org/archive/2003/02/21/uhoh_canada.html


and from Rex Murphy
http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/letters050227.html

Hi Rex Murphy,

For once the right decision, because weapons in space can destroy all of us and that’s what the program is all about.

Nobody in the world today has a missile that can reach Toronto except the Americans.

We get cheated daily by the Americans and thanks to the conservatives we are not using our strength, by just adding the same amount of punitive duties to our oil and gas exports.

If anybody wants to know how the world feels about us, travel the world and talk to anybody you meet that carries a maple leaf flag pin in their lapel. Guess what? Most of the people you meet this way can't name the place where they are from in Canada without stuttering and they talk with english accents, that are definitely not Canadian.

Have a nice day.

Chris Heinrich
Medicine Hat, Alberta

 

[clasper]

Collin.T:

I'm not saying it never happens, but Americans frequently disguising themselves as Canadians in Europe is an urban legend.  I happen to live in the most frequented tourist destination in the world, and I tend to meet backpacking college kids on a weekly basis throughout the summer.  I haven't met a single one that tried to hide their citizenship.  Most Americans are extremely proud of where they come from, even the ones that are positively ashamed of the current administration.

 

[lou133]

People tend to mix everything, like what they do in mass medias. All the statements made are not necessarily supported with good source. Since medias are probably the only source of information that most part of the population uses, sometimes they get their opinions biased by them. Although I'm not saying all journalists are bad, it's just that medias compress everything in a short time lapse. Important details of complicated situations are left out for more spectacular images that are only a small part of a big puzzle. We live in a fast world, even more so in big cities, everything is rushed out. People don't take time to informed themselves about anything. Hence medias are a "perfect" solution for that kind of problem. Just an example, people will tend to vote not for their local MP, but for the leader of a major party, all because election campaign are focused on leaders by all major medias, it gives not much time for local MPs.

As for citizenship, the important thing to know is that we can't mix it with political opinions. Democrats won't deny their American patriotism just because there is a republican president. They won't agree with his politics, but it has nothing to do with their citizenship. And their is always a small portion of the population that are either ashamed or sickened enough by their country that they emigrate elsewhere. But the thing is we see this everywhere, so we can't consider this as something valuable.

Nobody is forced to do any jobs in this country, we have a freedom to choose whatever we want to do in regards to our capabilities. So we can't as a person not to choose to be in the military, but we have to respect those who chooses to do so. People tend to forget that. If i could join in, i would do it right away, but i can't. In that regard, the only thing I can do is to support our fellow soldiers, give respect and not forget those who gave the ultimate sacrifice when all they where doing was to protect our nation, and that applies for those who did before, that are doing it now and those who will do it tomorrow.

The only thing missing to Canadians is this, unity in all aspects of our country, an maybe this will make Canada a stronger nation.

 

[Rubes]

Alright I get your points, I didn't took the designation "victims" the same way you did.

But please be a little bit more gentle toward different religions, I might be atheist but I respect other's believes and as far as I know the catholic church were not much better in history (anyone recalls the crusade, or the inquisition, or closer to our time the Duplessi chilrdren).

and on this I'm out of this discussion, cause honestly I don't really care about Artsee or his point of view on all this.

For the record, the Muslims instigated the Crusades by raiding into Europe in an attempt to convert the unbelievers.

 

[Collin.t]

I don't know where you get your history from,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade

 

[Rubes]

Definitely not wikipedia,

http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/features/the_crusades-1.php
http://atheism.about.com/od/crusades/a/crusades_3.htm

The First Crusade was instigated by Seljuk Turks raiding into the Byzantine Empire, who in turn requested help from the rest of Europe.  Pope Urban II declared the Crusade, and not only committed the Christian armies to helping Byanztium, but also wanted to take back the Holy Land from the Muslims.

Perhaps this is a bit off-topic though.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Don't ever rely soley on Wikipedia. You, yourself can go in there and edit history :blotto: Wikipedia is simply a place where anyone can go and add their two cents. It is definitely not to be taken as gospel.

 

[Collin.t]

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/full/438900a.html

there are a few studies out there that compared wikipedia to other major encyclopedia and founded that it was as much reliable as the other ones.

Wikipedia is one of the greatest thing about the internet.

If I edit the article about the crusades it wouldn't take too long before it gets reviews since it's an important topic so any BS I might had wouldn't last very long.

 

[Trinity]

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/full/438900a.html

there are a few studies out there that compared wikipedia to other major encyclopedia and founded that it was as much reliable as the other ones.

Wikipedia is one of the greatest thing about the internet.

If I edit the article about the crusades it wouldn't take too long before it gets reviews since it's an important topic so any BS I might had wouldn't last very long.

Maybe you should edit your own posts first.  God help you if Bruce Monkhouse got in here with his red pen.

 

[Collin.t]

Yeah I'm aware of that, I guess I could use the excuse that I am doing too many things at the same time.

 

[paracowboy]

Definitely not wikipedia,

http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/features/the_crusades-1.php
http://atheism.about.com/od/crusades/a/crusades_3.htm

The First Crusade was instigated by Seljuk Turks raiding into the Byzantine Empire, who in turn requested help from the rest of Europe.  Pope Urban II declared the Crusade, and not only committed the Christian armies to helping Byanztium, but also wanted to take back the Holy Land from the Muslims.

Perhaps this is a bit off-topic though.

Rubes is correct, here. The irony is that the first city sacked by our brave defenders of the Christian Faith was a Christian one! And that it was a direct result of Byzantium's screwing over the Crusaders, thus causing them to attack the city, weakening it's defences that allowed the Turks to finally take it and turn it into the city we now know as Istanbul.

Istanbul is now Constantinople,
yeah, Istanbul is Constantinople...

Oh yeah, and it was the Janissaries that did it. Another irony. Christian-born warriors.
Funny ol' world, i'n it?

 

[dutchie]

Yeah I'm aware of that, I guess I could use the excuse that I am doing too many things at the same time.

Next time limit those 'things' to 'thinking' when posting. Forget rubbing your belly, tapping your head and posting at the same time....makes for embarrassing posts.