First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

[brihard]

There was TB, and a host of other diseases that affected the children that they had not been exposed to the before. The federal government refused to pay to have the bodies returned to the tribe, they told the schools to just bury them and inform the parents

Yes, I’m aware. There were also children murdered by school staff, with matters buried by said staff and by police. This is well documented in some instances. If, now that bodies are being counted, more investigation is called for, then do it.

 

[GAP]

Granted

 

[Furniture]

Maybe I missed it, but where is the PM's message decrying the destruction of churches?

If it were synagogues, mosques, temples, or any other religious group being targeted, we'd have seen multiple federal government ministers telling us to not judge all (insert X) by the actions of those in the past. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but to me it looks like the government is not saying anything, so the Catholic church can bear the brunt of the anger.

The graves need to be found, and properly marked. Anyone from the system alive today needs to be brought to justice if they committed criminal acts in the past. Anyone caught committing crimes today, because of crimes in the past also needs to be brought to justice.

 

[Pelorus]

Maybe I missed it, but where is the PM's message decrying the destruction of churches?

If it were synagogues, mosques, temples, or any other religious group being targeted, we'd have seen multiple federal government ministers telling us to not judge all (insert X) by the actions of those in the past. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but to me it looks like the government is not saying anything, so the Catholic church can bear the brunt of the anger.

The graves need to be found, and properly marked. Anyone from the system alive today needs to be brought to justice if they committed criminal acts in the past. Anyone caught committing crimes today, because of crimes in the past also needs to be brought to justice.

Burning churches is 'unacceptable' way to respond to unmarked Indigenous graves: Trudeau

This morning, a historic Catholic church in Alberta was destroyed by fire and a Catholic church at a First Nation in Nova Scotia was damaged by flames

nationalpost.com

 

[Jarnhamar]

If it were synagogues, mosques, temples, or any other religious group being targeted,

If this was any religious place other than churches burning we would also be calling them hate crimes of epidemic proportions.

 

[Quirky]

so that hopefully actual reconciliation can be pursued and this ugly crap consigned to the history books.

No one knows what actual reconciliation means, not even the FN. Has there ever been an interaction between Canada and FN in general where compensation of some type for some reason hasn’t been the primary topic of conversation? I see it as a difference of opinion, because to me saying “it’s not about money” is a stance that is either naive or intentionally misleading.

I just do not see how group punishing people today who had nothing to do with events of the past will solve anything or contribute to reconciliation.

Welcome to Canada, where you must pay for the sins of your ancestors and you're responsible for the sins of other peoples' ancestors. Even if you immigrated to Canada, or your parents did, you are still responsible.

Yes, I’m aware. There were also children murdered by school staff, with matters buried by said staff and by police. This is well documented in some instances. If, now that bodies are being counted, more investigation is called for, then do it.

There is no clear indication which children died from unnatural causes vs natural, figuring out how to even charge a case with almost no evidence and hoping that any of the staff (who would be in their 80’s) might stay alive long enough to see a court room. Seeking justice is going to be a nearly impossible and too costly of a task at this point. Investigating 30+ year old cold cases is about as terrible of a societal return of investment as it gets. Opening up old wounds that were buried for decades is only going enrage more people and more buildings will be burn down. We are on this path now anyway, it's only going to get worse and drive more hatred.

 

[The Bread Guy]

No one knows what actual reconciliation means, not even the FN ...

I only partly agree with you here.

What I think makes it difficult is that there's such a wide range of ideas re: what "reconciliation" means, both to individuals and to communities on both sides of the issue.

Some said "paying them out" would be a good solution, while others thought this same solution was sometimes (often?) better for the lawyers than the recipients.

Others point to the fact that while this compensates people who've been through the system or affected by the fate of those who've been there, there was still the outstanding question of, "what about those who didn't come back - especially those that nobody was told about?" (BTW, they've been collecting info on those who nobody knows what happened to on an ongoing basis since 2015).

Some extremes at both ends of the spectrum can sometimes be so shrill as to drown out all the less-extreme options/opinions in between.

Others smarter than me on social media said that this took a long time to happen and understand (with the understanding still unfolding), so it'll take a long time to figure out what reconciliation means and how to "do" it.

 

[Remius]

There were 93 recommendations and calls to action that came out of the TRC. Start by actioning those.

 

[Good2Golf]

There were 93 recommendations and calls to action that came out of the TRC. Start by actioning those.

TRC recommendations…Deschamps Report recommendations….clearly the Government would rather depend on sniffly “We must do better” from the PM and his Ministers, than implement concrete remediating actions…

 

[Remius]

TRC recommendations…Deschamps Report recommendations….clearly the Government would rather depend on sniffly “We must do better” from the PM and his Ministers, than implement concrete remediating actions…

Absolutely.

 

[Infanteer]

There were 93 recommendations and calls to action that came out of the TRC. Start by actioning those.

I'm not about cancelling Canada, or self-flagellation for the sins of the father, but having a read of the 93 recommendations doesn't hurt.

TRC Website - NCTR

The TRC website has been archived using the Wayback Machine software. You can view the archived version by clicking here. The Wayback Machine is an archive system for websites. The archived TRC website will work like a normal website, however, it is not being maintained with current information...

trc.ca

 

[Jarnhamar]

We call upon the Government of Canada to replace the Oath of Citizenship with the following:I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada including Treaties with Indigenous Peoples, and fulfill my duties as a Canadian citizen.

This one stuck out to me. Seems like this might be a bit of a loaded issue.

Another is the call for access to Aboriginal traditional healing, I believe in hospitals, if someone requests it.
Our health care system is struggling. Not enough doctors, nurses, PSWs and so on. Every hospital in Canada offering Aboriginal traditional healing (which in itself is a broad term with many different healing traditions within the different belief systems of 630 nations) seems tricky.

Actioning all of the recommendations in the TRC seems like it would be an astronomical cost.

 

[Infanteer]

Yes. I read through them. Some are already in place.

I have no doubt that all are made with the best intent. Some I think may be unrealistically unachievable, and I suspect that some of the calls related to funding are simply indicators of larger cracks in social funding across Canada.

Finally, I'm not sure I agree with a few of them, but would have to read more to understand the context.

It's interesting to see the various reports of how we're doing as a country. Some reports are that the process is stalled, and that we're not doing enough in Canada. But it appears Canada is trying.

https://www.afn.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/2020_TRC-Report-Card_ENG.pdf

https://yellowheadinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/yi-trc-calls-to-action-update-full-report-2020.pdf

 

[Kilted]

No one knows what actual reconciliation means, not even the FN. Has there ever been an interaction between Canada and FN in general where compensation of some type for some reason hasn’t been the primary topic of conversation? I see it as a difference of opinion, because to me saying “it’s not about money” is a stance that is either naive or intentionally misleading.



Welcome to Canada, where you must pay for the sins of your ancestors and you're responsible for the sins of other peoples' ancestors. Even if you immigrated to Canada, or your parents did, you are still responsible.



There is no clear indication which children died from unnatural causes vs natural, figuring out how to even charge a case with almost no evidence and hoping that any of the staff (who would be in their 80’s) might stay alive long enough to see a court room. Seeking justice is going to be a nearly impossible and too costly of a task at this point. Investigating 30+ year old cold cases is about as terrible of a societal return of investment as it gets. Opening up old wounds that were buried for decades is only going enrage more people and more buildings will be burn down. We are on this path now anyway, it's only going to get worse and drive more hatred.

I haven't seen any legit claim that any of the children were murdered, besides what some people think. I believe that there is somewhat of a consensus that most of the children died late 19th/early 20th century. I suppose it's possible to find someone still living who may have been accused of sexual assault, but unless this is someone new who is coming forward, I can't have seen the Crown not pursuing charges after TRC if a living individual was named if there was any likelihood of a conviction. Other than that, what would you charge anyone with, corporal punishment in schools was legal back then, it was only actually criminalized in 2004.

 

[Mick]

I haven't seen any legit claim that any of the children were murdered, besides what some people think. I believe that there is somewhat of a consensus that most of the children died late 19th/early 20th century. I suppose it's possible to find someone still living who may have been accused of sexual assault, but unless this is someone new who is coming forward, I can't have seen the Crown not pursuing charges after TRC if a living individual was named if there was any likelihood of a conviction. Other than that, what would you charge anyone with, corporal punishment in schools was legal back then, it was only actually criminalized in 2004.

Respectfully, I'm not sure how a "consensus that most of the children died late 19th / early 20th century" is possible - these unmarked graves have only recently been discovered.

The fact remains, that while we don't know details about how / when / under what circumstances these children died, we do know that they were buried in unmarked graves, without record, by organizations that were entrusted with their care.

Further investigation will provide more information, obviously.

 

[quadrapiper]

Another is the call for access to Aboriginal traditional healing, I believe in hospitals, if someone requests it.
Our health care system is struggling. Not enough doctors, nurses, PSWs and so on. Every hospital in Canada offering Aboriginal traditional healing (which in itself is a broad term with many different healing traditions within the different belief systems of 630 nations) seems tricky.

That actually seems reasonably achievable, especially if approached as a "meet halfway" enterprise: establish a position at each hospital responsible for the delivery of local traditional healing and liaison with the nations of out-of-area indigenous. Make filling and managing it the responsibility of the local First Nation. Fund it out of a non-healthcare pot: it's all tax money, but at least make sure this gig doesn't bite into healthcare funding. Ideally, fund it out of a pot managed by the First Nation(s).

 

[OldSolduer]

TRC recommendations…Deschamps Report recommendations….clearly the Government would rather depend on sniffly “We must do better” from the PM and his Ministers, than implement concrete remediating actions…

“We must do better” Costs serious money. Less money for SNC Lavallin, WE charity and others our dear PM loves so much.

 

[Brad Sallows]

People keep talking about things they don't know.

We don't know whether all the unmarked graves hold children. (That question was raised over the cemetery discovered in SK.)

We don't know during which periods most of those people died, and of what causes. (It defies imagination to believe that all were natural and none were due to physical abuse, murder, or self-harm; it also defies imagination that every one is a child murdered and buried at midnight in an unmarked grave with no record.)

We don't know how many graves were originally marked.

We don't know what records were kept, or which have been mislaid or destroyed.

 

[Mick]

People keep talking about things they don't know.

We don't know whether all the unmarked graves hold children. (That question was raised over the cemetery discovered in SK.)

We don't know during which periods most of those people died, and of what causes. (It defies imagination to believe that all were natural and none were due to physical abuse, murder, or self-harm; it also defies imagination that every one is a child murdered and buried at midnight in an unmarked grave with no record.)

We don't know how many graves were originally marked.

We don't know what records were kept, or which have been mislaid or destroyed.

Fully agree with this post.

I think the anger, at least partly, is due to the fact that these questions remain. The state took custody of these children (it's reasonable to assume that a majority of bodies discovered on school grounds are of school age) and with that came a duty to protect them. If they died in the state's care, for whatever reason, families deserved (and still deserve) to be informed.

edited for clarity

 

[MilEME09]

“We must do better” Costs serious money. Less money for SNC Lavallin, WE charity and others our dear PM loves so much.

Feel good politics wins votes, not concrete action, there was no action with the TRC report, of there wasn't national outrage, this wouldn't be a blip on the government radar. Our whole system is I'm shambles and corrupt