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This whole thing has become a farce. The blockade at the CGL site that started all this came down 4 days ago and work has resumed.
First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)
- Thread starter UberCree
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CloudCover said:
That is interesting. Is there any media reporting this development, or is this being kept quiet in the whole "never waste a crisis" line of thinking?
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Yes: https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/rcmp-remove-exclusion-zone-from-wet-suwet-en-territory-1.4808553
CGL (mostly FN workers from WetSuweten) moved back in almost immediately after the RCMP exclusion zone was released.
CGL (mostly FN workers from WetSuweten) moved back in almost immediately after the RCMP exclusion zone was released.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/wet-suwet-en-coastal-gas-link-pipeline-lng-1.5469401
And the other side of the protests. There are a lot of FN folks who simply don't want the attention: they want the jobs and prosperity that go with the pipeline and refinery. It is the comments about the nature of the protesters that I find most interesting. Here is just one clipped from the article "They're very pugnacious and overbearing. They're professional protesters,".
The chiefs have attached a condition of the RCMP leaving. Sounds fair provided the road remains open and that was a reasonable condition to attach to the agreement. The response of the hereditary chiefs will tell whether they are actually interested in a solution or simply want to stop progress so they can maintain control of their bands. It appears that there is a lot of band politics.
And the other side of the protests. There are a lot of FN folks who simply don't want the attention: they want the jobs and prosperity that go with the pipeline and refinery. It is the comments about the nature of the protesters that I find most interesting. Here is just one clipped from the article "They're very pugnacious and overbearing. They're professional protesters,".
The chiefs have attached a condition of the RCMP leaving. Sounds fair provided the road remains open and that was a reasonable condition to attach to the agreement. The response of the hereditary chiefs will tell whether they are actually interested in a solution or simply want to stop progress so they can maintain control of their bands. It appears that there is a lot of band politics.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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YZT580 said:
This is not fair... it's a thinly veiled opportunity to pull a kind of 'Louis Riel' moment.
You do no one any favours by removing the federal rule of law from those on the reserves as the opportunity for intimidation and other 'illegal influences' blossoms...
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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Whatever Canada's duties are to its citizens, those duties are owed equally to those who hold some sort of aboriginal status. Their interests are not necessarily well-served by activists who claim to act in those interests.
CountDC
Army.ca Veteran
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what a mess. Elected representatives of the communities with a lot of support from their members agreed to the pipelines while a few hereditary chiefs protest. Seems to me that the real issue is those few are more interested in trying to regain control of the tribe and it's money rather than help their people.
In BC there are several FN disputes over land stewardship as several groups claim rights to the same lands found to be valuable areas.
In BC there are several FN disputes over land stewardship as several groups claim rights to the same lands found to be valuable areas.
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https://www.jlsreport.com/2020/02/16/wolves-in-fancy-blankets Letters to Editor
Wolves in Fancy Blankets - 16 Feb 20
I see all these posts supporting a few OW Hereditary Chiefs but what I don’t see is the Wetsuweten people speaking up about how this office operates. I get it though, I live on Westbank First Nation (as I do), I see exactly how opportunities are disbursed based on whether you are “one of them” or “one of us”. Luckily, I also lived up in Houston BC and know first hand about the motives of some of the OW Hereditary Chiefs.
My husband is the late Larry Tiljoe, a member of the Witset Band, Gilseyhu Clan and Unistoten “family” line. The Tiljoe family have lived and worked, off reserve, in the Houston area their entire lives. Larry’s father is Russell Tiljoe, Russell’s father was Alex Tiljoe, the late Chief Namox. Larry’s mother Elsie, is the granddaughter of Christine Holland, the late Chief Knedebeas. Elsie and Larry both hold trapline rights along the pipeline within Knedebeas territory and the family has a long standing and significant connection to the land in and around Houston and the Knedebeas territories.
In 1993, we started a silviculture business, Nadina Mountain Contracting, located within the Morice Forest District. Our goal was to become a sustainable First Nation contractor who harvested, replanted and rejuvenated the areas we harvested. We managed our contracts and ensured their successful completion and established solid working relationships with local forestry industry key players. We were employing people from Moricetown to Burns Lake, both Native and non-Native. We were employed full time managing the land in forest health, building our business. Then the Office of the Wetsuweten of the Hereditary Chiefs came along.
The OW, situated an hour east of Houston, took over ALL the forest related activities earmarked as First Nations. We were forced us to work under the OW for contracts within our own forests; the OW took a portion of the contract value for the “service”. The OW’s lack of knowledge in forest health and neglect in their financial responsibilities continually caused our business to suffer hardship which rippled to our banker, our employees, and our suppliers. Logging has been acceptable to the OW within their territory and during our time under the OW we noticed the work was cornered by individual OW hereditary chiefs like Chief Kloun Khun – Alphose Gagnon, Chief Knedebeas – Warner William, and Chief ? Adam Gagnon. They established their own companies and or employed down their own family lines. The OW chiefs negotiated contracts including the values and awarded contracts to themselves. The OW wanted ALL the work for the OW. We were forced out of our own forest district to the forest district an hour east of Houston.
In the end the OW took their own member’s livelihood, pushed him out of his own territory, blocked access to his trapline and forced him into bankruptcy. His final words to them warned that their greed would become cancerous.
I personally question the integrity of some of the chiefs, especially the 3 are mentioned above. I wonder if it’s the same case with CGL; that the OW wants to control ALL the negotiations, ALL the monies, ALL the contracts and ALL benefits and administer it back to the Bands in the territory? As it stands the individual bands will receive the monies and benefits and not the OW. If they can’t have it ALL then NO one will have anything.
Except the Province of BC in 2019 gave the OW over $1.1 million, 2019 GoFundMe organized by Jennifer Wickham raised $239,507 for beneficiary, Cody Thomas Merriman and 2020 GoFundMe organized by France Maybe has raised $171,279 YTD for beneficiary, Molly Wickham. The Unistoten GoFundMe Legal fund to benefit Tse Wedi Eltlh raised $385,000 and on and on. The OW protest family has plenty of economic benefit, it’s a multi million dollar business. The Wetsuweten are still left with nothing.
The cause is honourable, we need to protect the planet and I respect people’s right protest but when I see and hear millions of dollars raised to individuals under fake names, images showing “protesters” in $800.00 jackets driving brand new trucks, vans, snowmobiles with top of the line cell phones for live video broadcast, “protesters” with unlimited funds to forage for food at the local restuarants and stores, access to dry heated shelter and $500.00 honorariums paid to Chiefs to show up and protest, I can’t help but question what is really going on.
I’m curious does the OW have a plan to replace the economic loss to ALL the communites affected, if NO? or Is GoFundMe going to become the new way of living off the land for them as well?
Thank you for providing a place to share this and for what you do for the Wetsuweten, ALL the Wetsuweten.
About JLS
JLS is temporarily on an altered course from its origins, we used to be a blog covering mostly Canadian stories, until the day came when we had to focus on protecting our back yard from outside intrusion. Its staggering how other peoples hate for oil can so badly destroy truth and fracture a First Nation, exploiting those who hate this country.
We love our country and we will take our community back.
Written by a local for the local people.
JLS – Dec 31st 2018
Wolves in Fancy Blankets - 16 Feb 20
I see all these posts supporting a few OW Hereditary Chiefs but what I don’t see is the Wetsuweten people speaking up about how this office operates. I get it though, I live on Westbank First Nation (as I do), I see exactly how opportunities are disbursed based on whether you are “one of them” or “one of us”. Luckily, I also lived up in Houston BC and know first hand about the motives of some of the OW Hereditary Chiefs.
My husband is the late Larry Tiljoe, a member of the Witset Band, Gilseyhu Clan and Unistoten “family” line. The Tiljoe family have lived and worked, off reserve, in the Houston area their entire lives. Larry’s father is Russell Tiljoe, Russell’s father was Alex Tiljoe, the late Chief Namox. Larry’s mother Elsie, is the granddaughter of Christine Holland, the late Chief Knedebeas. Elsie and Larry both hold trapline rights along the pipeline within Knedebeas territory and the family has a long standing and significant connection to the land in and around Houston and the Knedebeas territories.
In 1993, we started a silviculture business, Nadina Mountain Contracting, located within the Morice Forest District. Our goal was to become a sustainable First Nation contractor who harvested, replanted and rejuvenated the areas we harvested. We managed our contracts and ensured their successful completion and established solid working relationships with local forestry industry key players. We were employing people from Moricetown to Burns Lake, both Native and non-Native. We were employed full time managing the land in forest health, building our business. Then the Office of the Wetsuweten of the Hereditary Chiefs came along.
The OW, situated an hour east of Houston, took over ALL the forest related activities earmarked as First Nations. We were forced us to work under the OW for contracts within our own forests; the OW took a portion of the contract value for the “service”. The OW’s lack of knowledge in forest health and neglect in their financial responsibilities continually caused our business to suffer hardship which rippled to our banker, our employees, and our suppliers. Logging has been acceptable to the OW within their territory and during our time under the OW we noticed the work was cornered by individual OW hereditary chiefs like Chief Kloun Khun – Alphose Gagnon, Chief Knedebeas – Warner William, and Chief ? Adam Gagnon. They established their own companies and or employed down their own family lines. The OW chiefs negotiated contracts including the values and awarded contracts to themselves. The OW wanted ALL the work for the OW. We were forced out of our own forest district to the forest district an hour east of Houston.
In the end the OW took their own member’s livelihood, pushed him out of his own territory, blocked access to his trapline and forced him into bankruptcy. His final words to them warned that their greed would become cancerous.
I personally question the integrity of some of the chiefs, especially the 3 are mentioned above. I wonder if it’s the same case with CGL; that the OW wants to control ALL the negotiations, ALL the monies, ALL the contracts and ALL benefits and administer it back to the Bands in the territory? As it stands the individual bands will receive the monies and benefits and not the OW. If they can’t have it ALL then NO one will have anything.
Except the Province of BC in 2019 gave the OW over $1.1 million, 2019 GoFundMe organized by Jennifer Wickham raised $239,507 for beneficiary, Cody Thomas Merriman and 2020 GoFundMe organized by France Maybe has raised $171,279 YTD for beneficiary, Molly Wickham. The Unistoten GoFundMe Legal fund to benefit Tse Wedi Eltlh raised $385,000 and on and on. The OW protest family has plenty of economic benefit, it’s a multi million dollar business. The Wetsuweten are still left with nothing.
The cause is honourable, we need to protect the planet and I respect people’s right protest but when I see and hear millions of dollars raised to individuals under fake names, images showing “protesters” in $800.00 jackets driving brand new trucks, vans, snowmobiles with top of the line cell phones for live video broadcast, “protesters” with unlimited funds to forage for food at the local restuarants and stores, access to dry heated shelter and $500.00 honorariums paid to Chiefs to show up and protest, I can’t help but question what is really going on.
I’m curious does the OW have a plan to replace the economic loss to ALL the communites affected, if NO? or Is GoFundMe going to become the new way of living off the land for them as well?
Thank you for providing a place to share this and for what you do for the Wetsuweten, ALL the Wetsuweten.
About JLS
JLS is temporarily on an altered course from its origins, we used to be a blog covering mostly Canadian stories, until the day came when we had to focus on protecting our back yard from outside intrusion. Its staggering how other peoples hate for oil can so badly destroy truth and fracture a First Nation, exploiting those who hate this country.
We love our country and we will take our community back.
Written by a local for the local people.
JLS – Dec 31st 2018
Haggis
Army.ca Veteran
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Brad Sallows said:
Most social justice warriors are less interested in the causes they purport to defend than that they are seen to be defending a cause, any cause, as long as it's one that will garner individual or collective publicity for them or their "advocacy group". Coupled with the "we know what's best for you" mindset, they often alienate those they claim to defend.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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A day after demanding the RCMP remove a mobile detachment along the route of the proposed pipeline, hereditary chiefs who oppose the project say it’s not good enough now that the Mounties have agreed.
https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/02/20/federal-minister-pledges-to-meet-chiefs-in-b-c-over-natural-gas-pipeline/
https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/02/20/federal-minister-pledges-to-meet-chiefs-in-b-c-over-natural-gas-pipeline/
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Tangent here
Property rights.
What would happen if the property rights that Canada recognizes under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights were enacted into Canadian charter law? Wouldn't that not only appeal to "the settlers" but also the First Nations? Wouldn't it clarify land claims if the members of the First Nations, jointly and severally, had the same clear title to their lands as the settlers desire?
I recognize that borders and jurisdiction would still be an issue but the basis of discussion would be uniform.
Each individual status native would hold title jointly with their band.
Property rights.
What would happen if the property rights that Canada recognizes under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights were enacted into Canadian charter law? Wouldn't that not only appeal to "the settlers" but also the First Nations? Wouldn't it clarify land claims if the members of the First Nations, jointly and severally, had the same clear title to their lands as the settlers desire?
I recognize that borders and jurisdiction would still be an issue but the basis of discussion would be uniform.
Each individual status native would hold title jointly with their band.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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The Nisga treaty does give property rights to the members, most Band Councils oppose such concepts.
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You've made the assertion that it was PET who kept property rights out a few times, yet never provide a source. So...here's the actual answer from the Fraser Institute:Haggis said:
Lacking constitutional protection, governments routinely trample property rights
Lots of people to point that particular finger at, but PET isn't one of them.
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Back on topic:
I have a question for any lawyers in the crowd.
It seems to me that CN and CP Rail have really nothing to do with this CGL dispute, but are nonetheless being used as a hostage and racking up serious business losses in the process (along with lots of other businesses). Could those that block rail lines and those who counsel blocking rail lines find themselves at the wrong end of a civil suit for damages? Could they be successfully sued?
I have a question for any lawyers in the crowd.
It seems to me that CN and CP Rail have really nothing to do with this CGL dispute, but are nonetheless being used as a hostage and racking up serious business losses in the process (along with lots of other businesses). Could those that block rail lines and those who counsel blocking rail lines find themselves at the wrong end of a civil suit for damages? Could they be successfully sued?
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Trespass is a provincial offence, in some cases a federal offence and is also a civil action ( a tort). So in theory, yes. There are complete defences to the civil action. The right to civil dissent does not usually trump private property rights.
Edit: I would also note that in order to obtain the injunctions ( which in this case are also civil injunctions) the companies would have to establish that the harm being suffered resulting from the blockades is “ irreparable harm”. That type of harm seems self evident in this case and the costs and losses incurred are the measure of damages.
Who gets sued? Who pays? How? In what court?
Ultimately, we can expect very little restitution in this matter.
Edit: I would also note that in order to obtain the injunctions ( which in this case are also civil injunctions) the companies would have to establish that the harm being suffered resulting from the blockades is “ irreparable harm”. That type of harm seems self evident in this case and the costs and losses incurred are the measure of damages.
Who gets sued? Who pays? How? In what court?
Ultimately, we can expect very little restitution in this matter.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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The railways are on ROW granted by the Federal crown for the most part and regulated by the Crown. Now it would get messy where CN took over from BCR, but those rails are on a ROW issued originally by the government of BC, not sure who has ownership now?
