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First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

ObedientiaZelum said:
It's still quite sad that Spence managed to paint herself as a martyr with the IDM movement with her smoke and mirrors hunger strike.

I'm happy to say that I don't think this is the case. She has certainly tricked some very naive people, but for the most part I think Canadians saw right through this by the end (even if they didn't at the beginning), and the INM leaders are probably sitting there thinking she is to blame for the death of the INM movement, which was headed off of the cliff anyway, but she probably helped push it off the edge before it could put a fight and actually cause a scene.

Mind you, I'm still a bit worried that in 30 years they will put her on a stamp or a coin or something. But not nearly as much as I was.
 
ballz said:
in 30 years they will put her on a stamp or a coin or something.

Maybe a Totem pole with 6 other heads for 6 weeks of liquid shame.  ;D
 
...and to try and get this back on some sort of decent footing.  What can happen with good leadership.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/24/quebec-reserve-an-education-success-story
 
This is a good opinion piece about how feel good lefty environmentalists are pushing their agenda at the expense of FN peoples.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/diane-bederman/idle-no-more-left_b_2546243.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-politics


 
Crantor said:
This is a good opinion piece about how feel good lefty environmentalists are pushing their agenda at the expense of FN peoples.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/diane-bederman/idle-no-more-left_b_2546243.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-politics

I'm surprised something intelligent actually came out of the Huffington Post, but then I saw a "hot topic" title stating it was Harper's fault Chief Spence stole all of her band's money....  :facepalm:
 
PuckChaser said:
I'm surprised something intelligent actually came out of the Huffington Post, but then I saw a "hot topic" title stating it was Harper's fault Chief Spence stole all of her band's money....  :facepalm:

Written by none other than Carolyn Bennet of the $2Bn boondoggle fame. Can you spell irony?
 
I have heard news reports that some of the missing funds were used to purchase real estate. The real estate was not purchased on the reserve of course, so where, who, and how much? Believe it was comments from Ezra Levant, who seems to be the only one investigating.

The media party should do it's job and go after the Spence mess with half the vigor the go after the PM. How hard would it had been to follow the Spence vehicle every day, get a room on the same floor of the hotel and observe?

Speaking of education, how much and what training does Spence have to run a multi million dollar operation? What are the government's standards when they turn over millions of taxpayers dollars to people who do not have the education, training, or experience to do the job? Not every Band, but probably hundreds.

Racist questions, I know.
 
The NDP goes into pandering mode. As the article suggests, passing this bill would come back to bite any government quickly and badly, so this is not a particularly well thought out piece of legislation. If this really describes the mindset of the NDP, then they are still not ready for prime time:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/28/john-ivison-ndp-first-nations-bill-shows-the-partys-struggle-to-appear-credible/

John Ivison: NDP First Nations bill shows the party’s struggle to appear credible

John Ivison | Jan 28, 2013 8:26 PM ET | Last Updated: Jan 28, 2013 8:37 PM ET
More from John Ivison

The debate within the NDP has long been about whether it should seek to govern or remain the moral conscience of the nation.

Tom Mulcair seemed to have resolved the internal struggle with his attempt to transform the New Democrats into a credible alternative to the Conservatives. But that assumption may be premature — on the native file at least, the NDP leader has decided to play the role of Robin Hood, rather than Prime Minister-in-waiting.

How else to explain his backing for Romeo Saganash’s private member’s bill that calls for full implementation of the 2007 UN Declaration on Indigenous Rights?

Phil Fontaine, the then National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said the Conservative government’s refusal to sign it then was perplexing, since it risked staining Canada’s reputation over what was a purely “aspirational,” non-binding document.

But Jim Prentice, then Aboriginal Affairs minister, was adamant: “To say it is only aspirational overlooks the fact that it contains a number of inconsistencies with Canadian law and policy,” he said.


Related
First Nations dominate Question Period as Parliament resumes amid renewed Idle No More protests
First Nations dominate Question Period as Parliament resumes amid renewed Idle No More protests
.
He pointed to articles that would give indigenous people rights to ownership and use on lands they traditionally occupied, which he said was inconsistent with 200 years of Canadian treaty-making. “How are you going to administer the country?” he asked.

Yet by 2010, Mr. Prentice was gone and Canada was isolated in opposition to the Declaration, so it signed on, with the caveat that it would not be bound by its provisions.

Why should any sitting government be wary of adopting the Declaration? Who could argue against First Nations controlling their own institutions or practicing their own language and culture?

The answer is that the Declaration, if adopted, has the potential to drain power from Parliament and hand it to the courts. Depending on how they interpret the document, it could give First Nations a veto over all manner of legislation.

Article 19 says states must obtain the “free, prior and informed consent” of indigenous people before implementing legislation that may affect them.

Since all natives are, like it or not, legally Canadian citizens just about every piece of legislation passed by Parliament affects them.

There is debate in legal circles over whether Article 19 would give native Canadians a broad veto over legislation.

Sébastien Grammond, dean of civil law at the University of Ottawa, believes it does not. “If you wanted to grant a veto, you would have framed it differently,” he said, suggesting that the intent of the article should be interpreted as requiring free, prior and informed consultation.

In theory, First Nations already have that right under Section 35 of the Constitution Act, which has evolved into the duty to consult. This is the cause of much of the current bubbling anger over the budget implementation act — native groups like the Idle No More activists claim aboriginals were not consulted on changes to the environmental review process.

But even court rulings favourable to First Nations have made it clear that aboriginal rights are not absolute and can be broached for any number of reasons.

Implementation of the UN Declaration has the potential to go beyond mere consultation and require First Nations consent. Dr. Grammond says it was never intended to be applied by courts in the same way as the Charter of Rights.

Yet this is precisely what Mr. Saganash has in mind. At his press conference, he said he wants the courts to interpret and implement the Declaration where it is incompatible with existing law. Dr. Grammond does not think this would give First Nations the right to block legislation, but concedes it would be a matter of interpretation.

And what then? If the past month has taught us anything it’s that First Nations politics is as vicious and fratricidal as anything on show in the House of Commons. Public policy in this country would be at the mercy of regional chiefs with divergent, if not contradictory, ambitions and interests.

It is unlikely to come to that. For one thing, the NDP does not have the votes in the House to pass the bill; for another, private members’ bills cannot oblige the government to spend money, which harmonizing existing legislation with the Declaration would surely do.

But it speaks to the mindset of the Official Opposition. Parties who are on the cusp of power try not to saddle themselves with dumb legislation that comes back to bite them in office. It is a measure of where the NDP believes itself to be that it is even considering pushing for implementation of the Declaration.

As another of Canada’s eminent constitutional scholars put it: “MPs in opposition take a very different view than those in government who have to deal with the fallout.”

National Post
jivison@nationalpost.com
 
>Mind you, I'm still a bit worried that in 30 years they will put her on a stamp or a coin or something.

Fear naught; no-one will carry anything that large in a wallet.
 
Rifleman62 said:
Speaking of education, how much and what training does Spence have to run a multi million dollar operation? What are the government's standards when they turn over millions of taxpayers dollars to people who do not have the education, training, or experience to do the job? Not every Band, but probably hundreds.

To be fair, we don't have these kind of standards for a lot of politicians and if we did, most would never be eligible for senior leadership. The nice thing about democracy is for better or worse, the people elect the kind of leader they deserve.

When it's a very corrupted democracy, however, like the democracies a lot of the First Nations have in place, the same cannot be said.
 
ballz said:
To be fair, we don't have these kind of standards for a lot of politicians and if we did, most would never be eligible for senior leadership. The nice thing about democracy is for better or worse, the people elect the kind of leader they deserve.

When it's a very corrupted democracy, however, like the democracies a lot of the First Nations have in place, the same cannot be said.

Practically every other level of government does have a bureaucracy in place which takes care of the actual day to day running of said government.  The people working there tend to have a some sort of education to do their jobs.  The problem is their is no competent bureaucracy in place in places like Attiwapiskat, as the locals are the bureaucracy/elected officials.  I think that was what Rifleman is getting at.
 
Hatchet Man said:
Practically every other level of government does have a bureaucracy in place which takes care of the actual day to day running of said government.  The people working there tend to have a some sort of education to do their jobs.  The problem is their is no competent bureaucracy in place in places like Attiwapiskat, as the locals are the bureaucracy/elected officials.  I think that was what Rifleman is getting at.

Rog. He said Spence specifically, so I was thinking of an elected official. Of course, there is no way that Attawapiskat or any reserve as isolated could possibly have people with the levels of education and experience to qualify them to handle millions of dollars (those ambitious people would have left the reserve to get that, and they ain't coming back). The best that could be done is for Aboriginal Affairs to work pretty damn closely with them and provide lots of training and guidance, to assure they know how to do their books properly (this is not as hard as it sounds...), keep them maintained to a high standard, and not accept them until they're good to go. But, that is the kind of thing most would outright refuse...

Consider this. Most people in the CF that hit a certain level of leadership deal with a lot of money, most of them without any or much formal accounting or financial management training. But if they were ever unable to account for certain expenditures of Public Funds (or for that matter Non-Public Funds), what would happen to them? Serious consequences of course, charges, a release, and having our face all over the news, are all pretty good guesses I think. If it happened in a private sector job, fired, charged, and perhaps sued.

This is all pretty good incentive for us to make sure we don't lose any receipts, especially big ones, despite the fact that not all of us are accountants, financial managers, or really have much actual training for this kind of work, we learn as we progress to get the administration side of the job down.

What are the consequence for the Attawapiskat mayor and council? And therefore, what is their incentive to give a f**k? Perhaps if some existed, they might call for help (from Aboriginal Affairs) in doing these sort of things more diligently, just like the rest of us do when we come across a job that we're just out to lunch on.

Hatchet Man said:
competent bureaucracy

Oxymoron of the day ;D
 
ballz said:
Rog. He said Spence specifically, so I was thinking of an elected official. Of course, there is no way that Attawapiskat or any reserve as isolated could possibly have people with the levels of education and experience to qualify them to handle millions of dollars (those ambitious people would have left the reserve to get that, and they ain't coming back). The best that could be done is for Aboriginal Affairs to work pretty damn closely with them and provide lots of training and guidance, to assure they know how to do their books properly (this is not as hard as it sounds...), keep them maintained to a high standard, and not accept them until they're good to go.

The solution was called a third party manager, but I think we all remember what happened there.

But, that is the kind of thing most would outright refuse...
 
What are the consequence for the Attawapiskat mayor and council?

The taxpayer, if informed, should be outraged at what is going on.

Not all Reserves, but there are stories of new fire engines rusting on Reserves because of no volunteers to get the training to operate and maintain. Everyone is otherwise occupied.

AANDC hands over millions with not a hope of responsible management and accountability. What is wrong with this decade wrong practice? It is probably because the government is afraid of being  labeled racists by all the usual suspects.

Meanwhile, the Media party is after the PM, the evil spending spiteful Harper, for personally spending a million bucks to protect his own *** during a visit to India. The colossal gall of the bugger. That million could have been advantageously spent on (fill in whatever) to better advantage. Now if Bobby Rae was PM, this security requirement would never have been necessary.

Additionally, the CBC continues to hold their torch high for the Indians, with "The Current" going on about all the Indian hospitals, where everyone, like the residential schools, was subject to racists acts, mistreated, and on and on.

Fricken useless media. Cut all funding to the CBC.
 
Rifleman62 said:
Now if Bobby Rae was PM, this security requirement would never have been necessary.

If Mr Rae was PM, he'd need that full on security here at home, as we'd likely be in the throes of a full on apocalyptic event of biblical proportions before he ever gained that seat.
 
recceguy said:
If Mr Rae was PM, he'd need that full on security here at home, as we'd likely be in the throes of a full on apocalyptic event of biblical proportions before he ever gained that seat.
A few years back when they opened the new interpretation Center in Algonquin park, Bobby was then in the waning days of his Fiefdom, but at the height of the RAE DAYS. He had 4 plain clothed OPP, 6 -10 uniformed OPP, an OPP chopper, and I saw 2 guys in OPP green in the trees, one with a ruger and the other had a scoped bolt action. All so he could open cut the ribbon in the middle of nowhere.


Wonder if the OPP were on Payed days?
 
Rifleman62 said:
The taxpayer, if informed, should be outraged at what is going on.

That's not a consequence, Spence and company don't care about the taxpayers or what they think. If they were told "you don't get this year's 'x' grant without the receipts for what last year's was spent on," that would be a consequence.

That's what I meant. That's exactly what happens to the Physical Fitness Maintenance Grant when we lose the receipt for the $1000 treadmill we purchased with it, it wouldn't get topped up the next year. It would probably get topped up by the NPF committee out of their own pocket since they would not want to deal with the possible fraud charges they'd be facing since that $1000 wouldn't reconcile with the figure shown on the bank account.

Those are real consequences, but for some reason that seems to not apply to Attawapiskat. Apply those consequences and anyone will learn how to maintain the books.

Rifleman62 said:
Not all Reserves, but there are stories of new fire engines rusting on Reserves because of no volunteers to get the training to operate and maintain. Everyone is otherwise occupied.

AANDC hands over millions with not a hope of responsible management and accountability. What is wrong with this decade wrong practice? It is probably because the government is afraid of being  labeled racists by all the usual suspects.

Meanwhile, the Media party is after the PM, the evil spending spiteful Harper, for personally spending a million bucks to protect his own *** during a visit to India. The colossal gall of the bugger. That million could have been advantageously spent on (fill in whatever) to better advantage. Now if Bobby Rae was PM, this security requirement would never have been necessary.

Additionally, the CBC continues to hold their torch high for the Indians, with "The Current" going on about all the Indian hospitals, where everyone, like the residential schools, was subject to racists acts, mistreated, and on and on.

Fricken useless media. Cut all funding to the CBC.

I share your frustration.
 
recceguy said:
If Mr Rae was PM, he'd need that full on security here at home, as we'd likely be in the throes of a full on apocalyptic event of biblical proportions before he ever gained that seat.

Yes but we'd be blessed with his courageous calm professional and intelligent leadership during this Mayan Zombie revelation like Apocalypse. ;D
 
Danjanou said:
Yes but we'd be blessed with his courageous calm professional and intelligent leadership during this Mayan Zombie revelation like Apocalypse. ;D

>.> 

Someone else here plays The Secret World? 0_0
 
Pandora114 said:
Someone else here plays The Secret World? 0_0
Play it?  Danjanou owns land there.  :geek:

(He probably still has a red Star Trek shirt too)  ;D
 
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