Federal Public Service Compensation & Benefits

[GAP]

Ummmm?  Isn't it the job of Government to make up the Rules?

Don't be silly.....there was a reason heart & soul were sold out to unions......

 

[PuckChaser]

This is absurd! I thought we lived in a democracy, but apparently the government just makes up the rules as they go along.

As opposed to unelected union bosses pushing whats good for their pocketbooks in order to keep themselves employed?  :facepalm:

 

[Occam]

Ummmm?  Isn't it the job of Government to make up the Rules?

Yes, that's their job.  However, previous governments have successfully negotiated collective agreements by following set rules.  When another government comes along years later and decides that they don't like the terms of those agreements and consequently changes the rules causing a huge disadvantage to the unions in the collective bargaining process, then there's something seriously wrong.  What's worse is that Tony Clement et al honestly think what they're doing is fair.

As opposed to unelected union bosses pushing whats good for their pocketbooks in order to keep themselves employed?  :facepalm:

I hate to tell you this, but union bosses are elected by and represent the union membership.

 

[George Wallace]

Yes, that's their job.  However, previous governments have successfully negotiated collective agreements by following set rules.  When another government comes along years later and decides that they don't like the terms of those agreements and consequently changes the rules causing a huge disadvantage to the unions in the collective bargaining process, then there's something seriously wrong.  What's worse is that Tony Clement et al honestly think what they're doing is fair.

I agree with you for the most part.  On Tony Clement et al; who is it that is actually doing all the 'leg work' for him?  Senior Bureaucrats.  They are the ones selling their subordinates down the tubes.  With their six or seven figure incomes, they have lost touch with the worker bees who are making the whole machine run.  For the most part, the middle managers can see this, but are powerless to do anything.  Look closely at the loss of Severence Pay and who did the wheeling and dealing, and you can see problems lie at the top of the Public Civil Service as well.  We just haven't reached the stage of exposure seen in Ontario politics with their heads of the OLG, ORNGE, Ontario Hydro, etc..

 

[OldSolduer]

This is absurd! I thought we lived in a democracy, but apparently the government just makes up the rules as they go along.

Why is this absurd?

The government wants to balance the budget and one way is to reduce the SWE.

 

[Ostrozac]

Senior Bureaucrats.  They are the ones selling their subordinates down the tubes.  With their six or seven figure incomes, they have lost touch with the worker bees who are making the whole machine run. 

Let's not get too carried away. No one in the public service is pulling down a seven figure income.

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/index.asp?lang=eng&page=secretariats&sub=spsp-psps&doc=sal/sal2012-eng.htm

Six figures? Absolutely. And Majors and above make six figures in the CF. The public sector in Canada has all kinds of flaws -- but the senior manager to average employee compensation ratio probably isn't one of them.

 

[Occam]

I don't buy that, George.  This is coming from the top.  Out of the last Conservative convention came a resolution that the government's agenda was going to address pension and sick leave provisions with the Public Service.  I see this as a purely politically motivated move, and the senior bureaucrats are simply being told "This is the way it will be, find a way to make it happen".  It's union-busting.

Yes, PSAC agreed to the end of severance, but as I've mentioned before, they were presented with an ultimatum by TB - conceding severance pay was a pre-condition to any other negotiations in the collective bargaining process.  Failure to concede on severance would have resulted in an impasse.  The government was not bending on it.  The only thing you can do in that situation is make sure you get something back in kind.

The government wants to balance the budget and one way is to reduce the SWE.

Taking potshots at pension reform and sick leave benefits has nothing to do with SWE, though.  Reducing SWE is being handled through a virtual hiring freeze in the PS, and targetted layoffs.  I'm in a section where there are three people doing the work for five positions, and as much as my boss would love to hire some help, his hands are tied.  The other two guys working with me are both within grasp of retiring, and if something doesn't change soon they're going to have more than the current two vacant positions to worry about.

 

[OldSolduer]

Benefits and pension provisions are part of the total package, thus a reduction in those items reduce the SWE.

 

[Occam]

By definition, SWE (Salary and Wage Envelope) doesn't include pension costs and the cost of providing other benefits.  Different pots of money entirely.

http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/att_9801xe05_e_9005.html

 

[OldSolduer]

By definition, SWE (Salary and Wage Envelope) doesn't include pension costs and the cost of providing other benefits.  Different pots of money entirely.

http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/att_9801xe05_e_9005.html

Point made.  The government has a mandate to reduce the amount of money it takes from Canadians. They have a majority government. They - the government- is doing what we want it to do. Just my opinion.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I don't buy that, George.  This is coming from the top. Out of the last Conservative convention came a resolution that the government's agenda was going to address pension and sick leave provisions with the Public Service.  I see this as a purely politically motivated move, and the senior bureaucrats are simply being told "This is the way it will be, find a way to make it happen".  It's union-busting.

Yes, PSAC agreed to the end of severance, but as I've mentioned before, they were presented with an ultimatum by TB - conceding severance pay was a pre-condition to any other negotiations in the collective bargaining process.  Failure to concede on severance would have resulted in an impasse.  The government was not bending on it.  The only thing you can do in that situation is make sure you get something back in kind.

Taking potshots at pension reform and sick leave benefits has nothing to do with SWE, though.  Reducing SWE is being handled through a virtual hiring freeze in the PS, and targetted layoffs.  I'm in a section where there are three people doing the work for five positions, and as much as my boss would love to hire some help, his hands are tied.  The other two guys working with me are both within grasp of retiring, and if something doesn't change soon they're going to have more than the current two vacant positions to worry about.

Indeed, and it's also part of the liberal democratic process. The Conservative Party of Canada has not made a secret of its views on public sector work: the party believes the public sector is, broadly and generally, too big, very well, even too well paid and underworked or, at the very least, unproductive.

The data I have seen - and I'm no expert - suggests that the large number of lower lever/low skill workers are, indeed, overpaid, but the top levels (DMs, ADMs, DGs, etc) are underpaid.

Anyway, at the last last (21011) general election, a plurality of Canadians voted for the CPC in a majority of ridings, despite ~ maybe even because of ~ that party's published views on civil service salaries. Maybe a lot of Canadians agree that the civil service is overpaid and underworked. Maybe a fat, idle, civil service is a good political target in 2015, too.

 

[Occam]

I can't speak to the salaries of the DMs/ADMs/DGs - but speaking as a humble EL-06, I can say that I would have no problem finding work in the private sector at a higher salary than the PS pays me.  I might not find it today, or tomorrow...but there's enough of it out there.

I don't know anyone (myself included) who voted for the Conservatives in the last election because of their published views on PS salaries.  Hell, I don't think I'd have been able to tell you what their views on PS salaries were - I didn't think it was an issue with them.  I voted Conservative because I vowed that hell would freeze over before I'd ever consider voting Liberal given their performance during the decade of darkness.  As far back as I can remember, I've voted with the right.  I was pleased as punch when Harper got elected.  He did a great job getting us through the global banking crisis relatively unscathed.  He vastly increased defence spending and bought us much needed big-ticket items.  However, like every other government seems to do given enough time, they've gotten comfortable, and what's coming out of the CPC trenches isn't "Conservative" as I used to know it.  It's an abomination of Reform policy.  They've botched the F-35 purchase, very nearly bungled the Cyclone purchase, had scandal after scandal plague them (the Senate travel fiasco, Guergis/Jaffer, etc.), allowed Rob Anders to act like a complete fool and keep his job, and given out medals to convicted criminals.  Making an announcement during National Public Service Week that they're going to overhaul sick leave was nothing short of contemptuous.  I'm actually embarrassed to admit that I voted for these people.

Like many other Canadians, I've become disillusioned with the CPC.  They seemed like a good idea at the time, but they're no different than the ones they replaced.  The targeting of the PS pension and sick benefits is simply the nail in the coffin for me.  My (CPC) MP knows that he's lost my vote in the next election, and the best leader the Liberal party has been able to muster is someone with good hair and controversial ancestry.  I think a lot of people are like me and are wondering if maybe it's time someone else got a kick at the cat.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Rifleman62]

Scandal after scandal

Scandal: an action or event regarded as morally or legally wrong and causing general public outrage. or

a state of affairs regarded as wrong or reprehensible and causing general public outrage or anger

Media produced/manufactured general outrage does not count.

Yes, the CPC has failings. yes,

However, like every other government seems to do given enough time, they've gotten comfortable, and what's coming out of the CPC trenches isn't "Conservative" as I used to know it.

Compare a Senator stealing $90,000 with a Liberal government and it's operatives stealing millions, let alone blowing billions on a gun registry, HRDC, etc.

Do you live in Ontario? Any scandals there to be outraged about? Is the national/local media going ballistic hourly about how the Liberal party is "governing" Ontario.

P.S. My recent month long contact with supervisors and some level of manager, including one under a Director, leaves me unimpressed, angered with thoughts of uncaring, lack of productivity, no sense of urgency. see Reserve Pension to see why. Nine months to fix their colossal blunders and omissions.

 

[PuckChaser]

Do you live in Ontario? Any scandals there to be outraged about? Is the national/local media going ballistic hourly about how the Liberal party is "governing" Ontario.

Nope, and they've been blatantly buying elections for a year.

 

[OldSolduer]

Nope, and they've been blatantly buying elections for a year.

You mean "years" right?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If people don't like what is being offered, they need to go to the polls anyway. Write in who they want, Rhino, Libertarian, whatever. That or just spoil the ballot. That way you're not taking a chance of helping someone not suitable of getting in and your displeasure will be registered instead of being taken as voter apathy.

 

[OldSolduer]

The last provincial election I voted for the Green candidate.

If people don't like what is being offered, they need to go to the polls anyway. Write in who they want, Rhino, Libertarian, whatever. That or just spoil the ballot. That way you're not taking a chance of helping someone not suitable of getting in and your displeasure will be registered instead of being taken as voter apathy.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The last provincial election I voted for the Green candidate.

If you don't agree with their platform, you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

[OldSolduer]

If you don't agree with their platform, you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

She was better looking than the others and had no chance of winning.

I wrote in the Ayatollah Khomeni one year, he was already dead.

 

[Occam]

I have to apologize; I honestly didn't intend to derail the thread, and my rant may well belong elsewhere.  The attack (and it's nothing less than that) on the public service is, for me, the last straw.  I defended the CPC before friends when it was almost impossible to do so.  Whether scandal A by one party is monetarily bigger or smaller than scandal B by another party is, in my eyes, irrelevant.  It's a lack of morals and responsibility.  Attacking the PS when you need to deflect attention away from something the politicians have done wrong is offensive to me.

Someone asked if I lived in Ontario; yes, outside Ottawa.  My disgust with politicians doesn't end at just the federal level; the provincial and local governments are equally as inept.  Our electricity rates have skyrocketed so much, and are expected to climb so much, that the public is simply stunned beyond being able to express outrage anymore. 

Getting back on topic:  If the government thinks that the sick leave program is being abused, then the means exist under the current construct to deal with abusers.  Poisoning the work environment with broad, thinly veiled accusations that the PS are a bunch of malingerers and frauds isn't the way to do business, I don't care who you are.