Federal Government & Union spar over returning to office

[foresterab]

If you applied the same selection standards/ performance criteria to the public service that most (very non-unionized and highly individually motivated and accountable) IT firms use, the PS would lose tens of thousands of employees overnight

Not arguing they wouldn't. I work in the public service but deal with natural resource companies that have the same education/background as us and frankly folks do transfer between gov't and industry fairly often. When you've done the clients job things are way more accountable on both sides.

Bloated kingdoms and unaccountable performance are the bane of most large scale employers. Grew up hearing horror stories of the waste in the auto plants of southern ontario or federal gov't or large pulp mills. Unfortunately if you're working in the public service though and the politicians like to use you for political points its tough to gain staff engagement and passion when the higher up tone is negative.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Best case was 80% efficiency because you spent hours each day trying to track people down to ensure the total package of work was coordinated OR you ended up taking calls pre/post normal work hours because that was what the other person work but now you're on OT ...

Curious - in your normal work mode, are all your team members in the same building/location? As someone working in a regional office, for easily more than 3/4 of my career with the PS, my supervisors/managers have never worked in the same city as me - same with most of my team colleagues. In my case, co-ordinating team work via WFH was about the same as co-ordinating team work from the cubicle farm.

There in lies the issue does it not? Some people are great performers in or out of the office.

Others not so much and I would daresay they are the deadwood at the office to start with.

Zackly - which is why just removing solitaire from the computers of the "seducers of the canine" doesn't make them any more productive, but more creative in their seduction techniques.

.... The other part folks sometimes forget as a public service is that you work for an employer that is dictated by politics. So that place of employment was chosen for political means, supports another layer of taxpayers/voters (restaurants/shops/gas stations), and has implications if you're not there ....

I suspect that's a HUGE part of the equation for getting people back into all that now-echoing office space.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Some of the nits have obvious solutions. Flexible work schedules don't forbid people from posting their normal hours and notifying others when it's necessary to step away from means of immediate contact for some reason.

WFH makes an organization more disaster-resistant/tolerant.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Found out today that when we are supposed to be going back to work in the office, we're cutting down from 5 floors to 2. When going back to work only makes sense if you have the teams together to actually do it, don't think there will be any arrangement that lets us back into work 60% of the time with 40% of the floor space.

Personally hate the workplace 2.0 setting, and only get anything done with headphones/music on at best of times. Plus supporting both coasts WFH lets me be a bit more flexible with start/end times to accomodate the West coast in particular, as I can plan around it and take an extended break mid day vice working for 10-12 hours straight.

If they expect the same flexibility in the office they are SOL, as I'm not screwing around with traffic and the City broke public transit here in Ottawa with the LRT disaster. I guess it's time to Office Space things and just do the bare minimum for my 2023 resolution.

 

[Remius]

Found out today that when we are supposed to be going back to work in the office, we're cutting down from 5 floors to 2. When going back to work only makes sense if you have the teams together to actually do it, don't think there will be any arrangement that lets us back into work 60% of the time with 40% of the floor space.

Personally hate the workplace 2.0 setting, and only get anything done with headphones/music on at best of times. Plus supporting both coasts WFH lets me be a bit more flexible with start/end times to accomodate the West coast in particular, as I can plan around it and take an extended break mid day vice working for 10-12 hours straight.

If they expect the same flexibility in the office they are SOL, as I'm not screwing around with traffic and the City broke public transit here in Ottawa with the LRT disaster. I guess it's time to Office Space things and just do the bare minimum for my 2023 resolution.

Where I am at it’s going to be a challenge as we are challenged for space. I can see 2 days a week but three will be a bit of a cluster. I know WFH options were being explored before the pandemic to address space issues but they will have to accelerate the office make over.

Also a big part in my line of work , is being able to network with external stakeholders. That is not going to be the most efficient to do in house in an open concept hybrid space but I assume there will be some adapting.

Some positive things that we have adapted to will suffer. And planned expansion of hires outside the NCR will likely be scaled back. I expect some people to start shopping for other work options but so far my team seems pretty good with a hybrid model.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Found out today that when we are supposed to be going back to work in the office, we're cutting down from 5 floors to 2 ...

... Also a big part in my line of work , is being able to network with external stakeholders. That is not going to be the most efficient to do in house in an open concept hybrid space but I assume there will be some adapting ...

Don't know if I'm phrasing this optimally, but isn't it funny how Big Gov't is keen on saying workers are an asset, while at the same time changing their workspaces in line with what cynics might call a "human USB port" model, where "thumb drive workers" can just plug into and out of at will anywhere?

If I can be plugged into/out of a gypsy cubicle and expected to be productive, why can't I just keep plugging in at home if my tasks don't involve, say, dealing with people in the same area code as me? It makes sense if the team's in the same building, and seeing each other & being able to walk over for discussion/brainstorming/approvals can be done more easily, but not every PS job is necessarily like that.

And as for the DF'ers, 1) as mentioned upthread, they'll F the D in other ways if they're in the office, and 2) the rules aren't made for the 95% or so who do their job without complaining or needing social-credit-style surveillance & supervision.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Some positive things that we have adapted to will suffer. And planned expansion of hires outside the NCR will likely be scaled back. I expect some people to start shopping for other work options but so far my team seems pretty good with a hybrid model.

We actually hired a few people working outside the NCR with the expectation that hybrid/remote working was going to be an option, so will see what kind of hoops we need to jump through now to justify something that was already signed off when we hired the person last month. Alternately we can just stop providing LCMM support to life safety equipment.

Pretty awesome though to tell people they need to be in the office 60% of the time, when we will be cutting down to about 40% of the space (and I guess will need to audit what's in filing cabinets for disposal. Going to some kind of hot desking setup was fine when most people were working remotely, but won't if we need to be in 2-3 days a week minimum (and some will stay/go back to full time).

Hybrid was a challenge but was working for us, as most of our work is calls/emails to people in other organizations/time zones. Team work together was more effective in person, but most of our work is pretty independent, so I don't know. I'll probably get some noise canceling headphones or something and listen to music instead, but most of my work requires a fair bit of focus and dedicated concentration, so workplace 2.0 where I can see over the walls sitting down is just massively distracting and only get about a quarter of the work done I do at home.

 

[dapaterson]

GoC workplace 2.0 is glaring lights, visual distractions and noise, coupled with virtual meetings where it's likely that your home VTC setup is better than your laptop cam and the small monitor in the swing space at work.

With the new NDHQ, there's the added bonus that the only food service available is crappy, understaffed CANEX options.

 

[dimsum]

With the new NDHQ, there's the added bonus that the only food service available is crappy, understaffed CANEX options.

I heard Starbucks at Carling is returning, so there's that.

 

[dapaterson]

Working at 101, you can interact with folks from all over the GoC, meet for lunch, have real food.

Carling is a sprawling mess of a hellhole, underserved by transit, poor quality amenities, and already physically deteriorating - window frames are already leaching rust.

Plus, more physical space encourages more people, few of whom appear to contribute meaningfully to the Defence of Canada.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Working at 101, you can interact with folks from all over the GoC, meet for lunch, have real food.

Carling is a sprawling mess of a hellhole, underserved by transit, poor quality amenities, and already physically deteriorating - window frames are already leaching rust.

Plus, more physical space encourages more people, few of whom appear to contribute meaningfully to the Defence of Canada.

I haven't been to Carling yet, but the location for 101 made a huge amount of sense for any office that worked with other departments. So any of the PMOs, L1s etc were within a quick walk to PSPC, ISED, INAC, CCG, TBS, etc etc, as well as right to Parliament. Plus it was equally served (equally inconvenient?) by public transit, so you could get there from where ever in the NCR with about the same LOE.

The Carling location seems like it was picked by someone who never worked in an Ottawa job where you actually have to talk to outside departments, didn't realize the CAF sick parade was on the other side of the city, or looked at a transit map. And we still need to maintain the 101 location anyway for those kinds of briefings to MND etc, so it's a bit nuts.

I'm hoping to never have to work there, as it's an easy two hour commute on transit, or an hour or so of a drive with traffic to go a whole 30 kms. Awesome if you live on that side of the city though, but going out that way to do the C7/gas hut/1st aid refresher on occasion is enough for me.

 

[dimsum]

The Carling location seems like it was picked by someone who never worked in an Ottawa job where you actually have to talk to outside departments, didn't realize the CAF sick parade was on the other side of the city, or looked at a transit map. And we still need to maintain the 101 location anyway for those kinds of briefings to MND etc, so it's a bit nuts.

Why there is a Dental det but not a Med det in Carling astounds me. Even stuff like sick parade, then get the bigger stuff out to Montfort.

Carling would be fine for folks who do not need to talk to outside departments, which is a decent amount of NDHQ.

At least parking is cheap(er) at Carling. I have no idea who drives to 101 due to schedules, etc but downtown parking would suuuuuuuuuck.

 

[kev994]

I know a couple people who were hired to work remotely. They live nowhere near their team. It’s being suggested that they should go to the nearest location of their department 2-3 days a week just because. There’s zero value in this, their team isn’t at that location. It’s insane.

 

[Remius]

I know a couple people who were hired to work remotely. They live nowhere near their team. It’s being suggested that they should go to the nearest location of their department 2-3 days a week just because. There’s zero value in this, their team isn’t at that location. It’s insane.

That is insane. There are still exceptions based on how far they live. At least where I work. Nothing says that they can’t sign onto telework agreements based on their circumstances.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Some real First World problems from the WFH crowd .

I'm happy all the Govt Workers are being forced back to the Office. All the coffee breaks should help stimulate the economy

And yes I'm just trying to get a rise

 

[brihard]

Why there is a Dental det but not a Med det in Carling astounds me. Even stuff like sick parade, then get the bigger stuff out to Montfort.

Carling would be fine for folks who do not need to talk to outside departments, which is a decent amount of NDHQ.

At least parking is cheap(er) at Carling. I have no idea who drives to 101 due to schedules, etc but downtown parking would suuuuuuuuuck.

Wait, is sick parade still a think for minor day to day illness? Like, your first day off work with flu are you supposed to show up at Montfort? Or is it after X amount of days you present yourself to sick parade to verify continuation of sick leave?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

To be honest I miss working in the office, we had a great team and I am a social animal. I am also a bit ADHD and working at home is difficult with all the temptations and distractions.

 

[brihard]

To be honest I miss working in the office, we had a great team and I am a social animal. I am also a bit ADHD and working at home is difficult with all the temptations and distractions.

Same. With a wife working from home, and multiple dogs (with terrible work ethic), home is distracting for me. Plus at work we can’t bring our cell phones into my office, so there’s that too. I’ve worked from the office almost entirely throughout COVID. That said I also see why the flexibility is amazing for a lot of people, and I have plenty of coworkers who’ve worked very productively from home.

 

[YZT580]

The problem is that one size doesn't fit all. There are some jobs that definitely do not require your physical presence in an office and, in fact, can be done more efficiently from a separate environment: for example, why should an aviation safety inspector ever go in to a central office except to file reports? That job is itinerant by nature and all reporting to an office does is shorten the time for inspections.

But there are a lot of folks who don't perform well without some form of supervision. There are also a lot of positions that benefit from group interaction. Rather than a blanket order, the intelligent thing to do would be to review each job, the job description, and the office dynamics and then decide accordingly. Some jobs will stay at home whilst others will have to go in. The problem with that solution is that unless compensation is made for the ones stuck with going to work there will be legitimate grievances. I don't see a way around it.

 

[dimsum]

Wait, is sick parade still a think for minor day to day illness? Like, your first day off work with flu are you supposed to show up at Montfort? Or is it after X amount of days you present yourself to sick parade to verify continuation of sick leave?

You don't have to show up right away.

That being said, booking appointments is a months-long process if it's not ER-worthy, so sick parade is really the first stop for most ailments.

Some real First World problems from the WFH crowd .

I'm happy all the Govt Workers are being forced back to the Office. All the coffee breaks should help stimulate the economy

And yes I'm just trying to get a rise

I have friends/neighbours who are part of the WFH crowd, as well as local business owner crowd, so I hear both arguments (usually at each other).

One of my neighbours' teams is around the country, so they would go back to the office to...log into Teams and work online. In that case, it makes far more sense for them to continue WFH full time.