Fallen Soldiers' Parents Call for Troops to Remain in Afghanistan After 2011

[HItorMiss]

They also have populations that at a minimum, are near 10x our own (in the case of the USA). Nevermind the Chinese.

And the difference between now and 1941 and 1950 in the numbers column is???

The fact is we have no say whether we stay or go. Joe public, and the government who must enact his wishes, makes that call.

That's about the one thing I agree with. We go where they send us but this will lead into my very next point.

And for the record, I am on the side of pull out, only because I know Canadian society has lost it's stomach for this war.

And that is really the sad part isn't it. How weak we have become that a few deaths trying to make something better spoils our stomach for it.

 

[Fusaki]

Good for you, they think better and to be blunt their opinion is about 100X more important and poignant then yours. They have truly sacrificed in this conflict their words should be carrying a significant weight however I suspect sadly they will fall on deaf ears.

I disagree.

Yes, they have sacrificed and their sacrifice should be appreciated by the nation.  But that doesn't make them an authority on the war.  I know that my parents don't know enough about Afghanistan to have an educated opinion about it.  I doubt that most of our parents do. 

Lately, I've been starting to realize that I know a lot less about the world than I thought I did.  I no longer feel like I understand enough about the situation to have an educated opinion on Afghanistan, and I've spent a year wearing tan.

The parents of a fallen soldier can use emotive language to tug at heartstrings, but I think in most cases their comments would be lacking in critical analysis.  I'm sympathetic to their loss, but when it comes to foreign policy, they're probably out of their lane.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I disagree.

Yes, they have sacrificed and their sacrifice should be appreciated by the nation.  But that doesn't make them an authority on the war.  I know that my parents don't know enough about Afghanistan to have an educated opinion about it.  I doubt that most of our parents do. 

Lately, I've been starting to realize that I know a lot less about the world than I thought I did.  I no longer feel like I understand enough about the situation to have an educated opinion on Afghanistan, and I've spent a year wearing tan.

The parents of a fallen soldier can use emotive language to tug at heartstrings, but I think in most cases their comments would be lacking in critical analysis.  I'm sympathetic to their loss, but when it comes to foreign policy, they're probably out of their lane.

Very well said, Wonderbread. The first step in learning more and more, but never enough, about the world is to appreciate that we do not know as much as we think we do. I can tell you from long experience that we never do know as much as we might wish; and most of the people to whom we listen (because they're experts, or they outrank us, or they're just older, or they're media darlings) do not know as much as they would have us believe.

+300 MPs for being smarter than most people around here.

 

[Fusaki]

Mr. Campbell, thank you.

You're the wind beneath my wings. ;D

 

[the 48th regulator]

I disagree.

Yes, they have sacrificed and their sacrifice should be appreciated by the nation.  But that doesn't make them an authority on the war.  I know that my parents don't know enough about Afghanistan to have an educated opinion about it.  I doubt that most of our parents do. 

Lately, I've been starting to realize that I know a lot less about the world than I thought I did.  I no longer feel like I understand enough about the situation to have an educated opinion on Afghanistan, and I've spent a year wearing tan.

The parents of a fallen soldier can use emotive language to tug at heartstrings, but I think in most cases their comments would be lacking in critical analysis.  I'm sympathetic to their loss, but when it comes to foreign policy, they're probably out of their lane.

Wonderbread,

I want to echo what Mr. Campbell said, kudos on this post you have expressed what I have wanted to for a while in this thread.

BM, You have some valid thoughts, however I also disagree with you.  A family does not gain political knowledge, and understanding by the sacrifice of a loved one.  Nor, does this give them a right to trump any other citizen of this country in offering an opinion, in which direction our nation goes.

Towards the Gap is expressing a very valid sentiment amongst the people.  It is not the deaths that are the only factor, but it is the length of time this is taking.  People say it all the time, it took us less time to fight and win against a much more organized army, with a lot less.

Although, the support for the troops is stronger than ever, I think that this war is dragging too long for the Average Canadian.  We are dealing with a society that can cook a meal in less than 5 minutes, read news from around the world in lest than five seconds.  look at their home via satellite, and carry more technology in their hand than it took to launch man to the moon.  Society has felt we have jumped the shark with this war, and we must move on.  It is dangerously being compared to another war, which was sell after the dates of 1945-1950 that you ask about, and it is not far off from there......

dileas

tess

 

[mariomike]

and most of the people to whom we listen (because they're experts, or they outrank us, or they're just older, or they're media darlings) do not know as much as they would have us believe.

I think these Siver Cross mothers are also experts. I am pleased to read of their pilgrimages.

 

[aesop081]

so no one gets burned out.

I hate to break it to you but it is the same down there.

 

[leroi]

It's a bitter pill to swallow for families of those who made the sacrifice, to know the Canadian public has not overwhelmingly supported the mission.

All the more reason, I think, to hear them speak about the end of the mission.

If they speak emotionally about those who stared down death; the wounded, the survivors & how hard they tried to make Afghanistan a better place--I can understand why.

  :yellow:

 

[HItorMiss]

WB,

I was wondering when the the Left leaning teachers would get to you 

In all seriousness though I have through some very enlightened conversations with parents of those who have been lost in this conflict come to one realisation. They may have known SFA about the conflict before the death but they dedicate themselves to learning about it when the death occurs one mother told me she simply had to know what it was he had died for and if she thought his death would be worth.


Tess you make a valid argument with your timelines but you have to agree that regardless of those facts war is war unless we use WMDs no conflict is quick compounded by the insidiousness of an insurgent based war style only prolongs it. We can start throwing in the other conflict but you and I both know that this conflict was win able sadly the larger party to the conflict was less military inclined and more running a conflict by concensus and political proxy (No strike list etc etc)

I have and will always believe that the conflict was never clearly explained to the populace nor the length to which this could take. Instead we allowed other countries medias and expectations to govern our own timeline and expectations.

A family does not gain political knowledge, and understanding by the sacrifice of a loved one.  Nor, does this give them a right to trump any other citizen of this country in offering an opinion, in which direction our nation goes.

I very much disagree with this. Just like someone who does not vote should have no say in what the government does I believe those who have paid a price for our nation do indeed have more weight in their words when it comes to something like this. And their words should be taken into consideration long before John Q couch sitter beer swilling political armchair quarterbacks does and lets be honest with ourselves that's what the vast majority of Canadians are.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I think these Siver Cross mothers are also experts. I am pleased to read of their pilgrimages.

The Silver Cross mothers and widows (and fathers and husbands, too) are experts in 'managing' the pain and suffering that come with their terrible loss. They do not have any special insights into why we should or should not be in Afghanistan now or after 2011.

These good people deserve a special place in out hearts, but their views provide no useful base for either policy or politics. Edit to add: no more, anyway, than those of most other Canadians.

 

[the 48th regulator]

A family does not gain political knowledge, and understanding by the sacrifice of a loved one.  Nor, does this give them a right to trump any other citizen of this country in offering an opinion, in which direction our nation goes.

I very much disagree with this. Just like someone who does not vote should have no say in what the government does I believe those who have paid a price for our nation do indeed have more weight in their words when it comes to something like this. And their words should be taken into consideration long before John Q couch sitter beer swilling political armchair quarterbacks does and lets be honest with ourselves that's what the vast majority of Canadians are.

And Edward, has explained my feelings, so I will not respond;

The Silver Dross mothers and widows (and fathers and husbands, too) are experts in 'managing' the pain and suffering that come with their terrible loss. They do not have any special insights into why we should or should not be in Afghanistan now or after 2011.

These good people deserve a special place in out hearts, but their views provide no useful base for either policy or politics. Edit to add: no more, anyway, than those of most other Canadians.

dileas

tess

 

[HItorMiss]

Alright I accept your view and counter with,

How many of those have you both spoken with? other then Silverback who is more informed by far then most Canadians. I have spoken with more then a few and it is where my statement comes from.

I explained in an earlier post that the ones I have talked to have gone out of their way to educate themselves.


All that being said I think perhaps we will the 4 of us agree to disagree on how we will but all agree that we are leaving a job unfinished yes?

 

[the 48th regulator]

Alright I accept your view and counter with,

How many of those have you both spoken with? other then Silverback who is more informed by far then most Canadians. I have spoken with more then a few and it is where my statement comes from.

I explained in an earlier post that the ones I have talked to have gone out of their way to educate themselves.


All that being said I think perhaps we will the 4 of us agree to disagree on how we will but all agree that we are leaving a job unfinished yes?

Roger that,

However BM,

You will be surprised, as I have spoken to many of them, and well versed politically, and with Knowledge of the conflict.  Their views are very different from what you have heard, from the loved ones you spoke to.  That being said, let us not step on the average Canadian either, for being uneducated in the foreign affairs of the land.  We have a much more supportive society, than in years past.  Our country said 2011, and that is what we shall abide to.  How many more bereaved family members do we need to make, just to satisfy the feelings of those who have lost someone already, in this conflict?

I like, Wonderbread stated, have parents who, had I died in the FRY, would have been like Bunny from this scene in Platoon.  My Pops had his way, he would've gone there and burned the whole friggin region, then stomped on the cinders 'till the ashes blew in the wind (Sounds different with a  Southern Italian Dialect, but the gist is there).  So, in that sense, I can talk about it in a personal level as well.

I will agree with your thoughts though and we should end this tit for tat, however, we are only part of a global "team"  we have done our part, and completed our goals.  I do not see how we have left things unfinished. 


Anyways, let us move on.

dileas

tess

 

[Another Mom]

If anyone thinks opinions of families are important, then they should also ask the mothers of the soldiers yet to go over, if the potential death, dismemberment, brain injury, etc. to their offspring is worth this conflict and how it is run.   

I have educated myself and have my own opinion but in the end, it doesn't count.

 

[Tank Troll]

CDN Aviator, i am simply stating my opinion.  I believe that we have done enough

When you say we do you mean you or the rest of us also? If it is the rest of us then you don't speak for me or other people.

Tell me what do we gain by staying in Afghanistan till the so called end?

A stable country that can defend it's self from foreign and domestic enemies. A some what stable economy that doesn't rely on terrorist money to exist and grow.

What extra protection does that give Canada?

The fact that isn't a terrorist haven and training camps for them

We are not designed as a military to occupy a land for a long time.

What do you call the Canadian Army in Germany from 1945 to 1993

We are a small force with lots of talent that has been used in my opinion to the max.

We are getting bigger again and better. Will we ever make it back to the size we were in the late 80s early 90s before FRP and down sizing? May not but who can say for sure. Say what you want Afghanistan has help move the Canadian Forces forward,  training wise. docturn wise and kit wise. Now we need to Finnish what we started.