F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[jmt18325]

I did not specify air-to-air combat, but, regardless, I do not see anything currently available that would do better in that area, either.

I also do not see too many fighter guys expressing too much concern over all of the "weaknesses" being bandied about in in the clueless media or certain political circles.

I'm sure it'll be a fine plane...in 2022.

I'm starting to wonder in pressure from NATO and the US hasn't mounted on Trudeau - maybe we need these new jets to bolster our presence in Europe. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Now you're just guessing to justify the capability gap.

 

[jmt18325]

Now you're just guessing to justify the capability gap.

This whole exercise involves guessing, as we have only rumors to go on.

 

[SupersonicMax]

If we're planning for air to air combat, neither the Super Hornet, nor the Lightning is a good choice.

Please tell me why.

 

[jmt18325]

Please tell me why.

That's not the primary role of either platform.  I'd be fine buying strike eagle's though.

 

[SupersonicMax]

That's not the primary role of either platform.  I'd be fine buying strike eagle's though.

Please tell me how A/A not being the primary mission makes both aircraft not a good choice for Air-to-Air.

(FYI: The F-15E's primary mission is more so A/G than the Hornet's or the JSF's).

 

[Quirky]

That's not the primary role of either platform.  I'd be fine buying strike eagle's though.

We could convert the rear seat area for luggage storage so the avionics bay doesn't get jammed with crap!

 

[jmt18325]

Please tell me how A/A not being the primary mission makes both aircraft not a good choice for Air-to-Air.

(FYI: The F-15E's primary mission is more so A/G than the Hornet's or the JSF's).

Yes, I realize that the Strike Eagle is the strike version of the most potent air to air platform on the planet (as proven in actual combat).

Both aircraft serve a role and do it well - there are simply better aircraft when it comes  to air to air engagements.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Yes, I realize that the Strike Eagle is the strike version of the most potent air to air platform on the planet (as proven in actual combat).

Both aircraft serve a role and do it well - there are simply better aircraft when it comes  to air to air engagements.

Actually, the Strike Eagle has a grand total of 0 kills in Combat (other than a bomb dropped through a flying helicopter, but I disgress).  What you are thinking of is the F-15C a Air Superiority aircraft that cannot drop bombs.

Again, please tell me, specifically, why the JSF or the Hornet are not good choices for A/A engagements.  Please separate your answer in BVR and WVR and specify what kind of threat (open source data only) you have in mind.

 

[PuckChaser]

This whole exercise involves guessing, as we have only rumors to go on.

So you'd agree that we shouldn't buy $5B in fighter aircraft by politicians guessing at a capability gap? Comd RCAF knows more about fighter employment and sustainment than Justin Trudeau, unless I missed his aircraft maint experience in his resume between rich kid world traveler and substitute drama teacher.

 

[MilEME09]

So you'd agree that we shouldn't buy $5B in fighter aircraft by politicians guessing at a capability gap? Comd RCAF knows more about fighter employment and sustainment than Justin Trudeau, unless I missed his aircraft maint experience in his resume between rich kid world traveler and substitute drama teacher.

Last I checked JT's closest thing to military experience was when his panicked brother called him cause he was AWOL from gagetown and was discovered when daddy came to visit and wanted to see his son. On pure states I have a piece of my heart to the F-15 family, and the Silent eagle test bed but at the end of the day the F-35 is winning competitions, as production ramps up the price will go down and we need to jump on that boat fast if we are to get deliveries in a timely fashion.

 

[tomahawk6]

Maybe a dozen or so F-22's would make a good addition to the RCAF ?

 

[PuckChaser]

At $200M USD a piece? That dozen would be the only aircraft we get.

 

[jmt18325]

Actually, the Strike Eagle has a grand total of 0 kills in Combat (other than a bomb dropped through a flying helicopter, but I disgress).  What you are thinking of is the F-15C a Air Superiority aircraft that cannot drop bombs.

Again, please tell me, specifically, why the JSF or the Hornet are not good choices for A/A engagements.  Please separate your answer in BVR and WVR and specify what kind of threat (open source data only) you have in mind.

You know what I meant. 

 

[Loachman]

We have no clue what you meant. You have no clue about fighter aircraft. You will never fly a fighter, yet you are arguing with somebody that has considerable experience doing just that.

 

[PuckChaser]

Strike Eagle has an A/A kill by dropping a bomb through a flying helicopter? Man that's sweet.

 

[Good2Golf]

Re: JMT's reference to program delays...

Still will beat Eurofighter's entry-to-service programmatic goals/targets by several years, relatively.  Even our own CF-18 was FOC many years after the first delivery in 1982.

MacKay is probably right, in hindsight. The CPC mid-judged the "credit" they thought they would receive electorally, for being collaborative on CF-18 replacement.  If some advisors had taken a Tardis to 20October 2015, they probably would have come back to Stephen Harper and said, "just buy the jSF..." :2c:

Credit current government for at least a bit better set-up of a "burning platform" (coming gap - albeit from what some assess to be deliberately slow-rolling the Hornet life-extension) than 23 years ago and the "Zee-ro 'elicopters! Zip! None! Nada!" :nod:

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[FSTO]

Credit current government for at least a bit better set-up of a "burning platform" (coming gap - albeit from what some assess to be deliberately slow-rolling the Hornet life-extension) than 23 years ago and the "Zee-ro 'elicopters! Zip! None! Nada!" :nod:

:2c:

Regards
G2G

Still makes my blood boil when I think of that day.  :threat:

During the RAF flypast at the Queen's birthday, I was so wishing that Mansbridge would have said "And there goes the helicopter that Canada should of had 15 years ago!"
Yes, I am living in a dream world. :crybaby:

 

[GR66]

Personally I think this interim buy idea is stupid.  However IF it's a politically foregone conclusion that they WILL buy something to fill the imaginary "capability gap" then in my opinion I'd not go with the Super Hornet.

I'd rather approach the USAF to see if we can buy any F-15C's that are being slated for replacement by F-35's (24-30 for two squadrons of 12-15 aircraft?) and have Boeing upgrade them to their proposed "F-15 2040C" configuration. 

This would provide us with a true air superiority fighter that is designed to interoperate very well with the F-22 in the NORAD role.  It checks the Liberal's political box of buying "defensive fighters" vs "offensive bombers" while giving us an actual upgrade at least in one very specific military role.  It saddles us with a split fleet, but from what I understand the Super Hornet is different enough from our CF-18's that buying them would essentially be a split fleet anyway.

Our CF-18's could be reduced to a single squadron of 12-15 aircraft (with extra airframes to rotate through to extend their collective service life) which could focus their training on the Air to Ground role.  This would give us the ability to maintain both A/A and A/G skillsets within our pilot community while a future government decides what our long-term fighter replacement will eventually be as well as maintain the ability to deploy a small number of CF-18's operationally if it ever becomes a political/military necessity.

In the meantime I'd try to keep the F-35 door open by telling the Americans that we're still undecided on our long-term plans and want to wait until the F-35's software is more mature before we make any decision.  Guarantee them that whatever final requirements we determine for our replacement fighter competition in the future that the F-35 will be free to compete.  We could also ask the USAF to provide us with a small number of pilot exchange slots with US F-35 squadrons in order to familiarize our pilots with the 5th Gen technology so that we have a core of SMEs that can effectively help develop the assessment criteria for our eventual fighter selection.

 

[jmt18325]

We have no clue what you meant. You have no clue about fighter aircraft. You will never fly a fighter, yet you are arguing with somebody that has considerable experience doing just that.

So a hornet vs an eagle.  Which would you rather fly in that scenario?

That's what I thought.