EDUCATION

[Michael OLeary]

I am not using the CF to "get into" school. I want to gain as much eduction as possible, masters, PHD and LLB. If I can do that with the forces great, if not I will do it on my own.  I have already applied for Masters and am confident I will get in. Also I have also applied for CF and confident I will get in.  Therefore, I anticipated there being a conflict of schedule, if not of interests. I was always under the implied impression that the CF fostered continuing education, what you seem to be saying is that this is not the case once you have gained/obtained the pinnacle of learning ie a lowly BA.

No-one here, including myself, is saying it's not possible. I have a very good friend who recently completed his PhD while serving. BUT, it is not a common achievement - and if it is a central goal to your life plan, you may not be increasing your chances of accomplishing it by joining the military.

You asked for opinions and advice, which you are free to ignore and bash on with your life plan however you desire. We can only offer views that might help you understand the environment you are planning to launch yourself into. Don't be surprised if the CF's expectations for you have some small effect on those plans over the next 30 years.

 

[WoutAngerWoutRemorse]

Planning too far ahead is one simple way to make sure you get nothing out of life.........................just advice from an old[er] guy who never really planned more than the next good time.
...and what a sweet ride it's been,....you might want to worry about "the now" a little. :2c:

I dont think that planning ahead (far or otherwise) and carpe diem(ing) is mutually exclusive.

 

[Scott]

Because you're 25.

So you might not like the advice you're getting...I suggest you give it weight anyway.

 

[ballz]

I want to get the best/most of life as I can, while serving my country and teaching /co-operating with others. I can join now as an Infantry Officer and or Intelligence officer.  If I start as a Infantry officer and then get a Master (put in 10 years as infantry) then become and Intelligence Officer (and hopefully get a Masters/PHD in the process), do that for ten years meanwhile getting a law degree and then become a legal officer (do that for 10 years).
I am 25 years old
plus 10 years Infantry officer
plus 10 years Intelligence officer
plus 10 years Legal Officer
=55years old and retire with 30 years service (sounds like a good/well rounded life)
PS. once retired teach and write books

Wow... and where does "at least 1 year" for a Master's, 2 more years for a PhD, and 3 years + about a year of on the job training for Law fit into that 30 years?

 

[OldSolduer]

So we can't send him on a super secret mission?  :-[

 

[Pieman]

I dont think that planning ahead (far or otherwise) and carpe diem(ing) is mutually exclusive.

Agreed. No plan has to be written in stone, and your ideas will change with time. Your goals/timeline are not very realistic at the moment, but you will figure that out.

I suspect you would be much happier looking into going into the reserves. The question boils down to your motivation for joining. If you are looking at it as something fun to do, pays you, and lets you continue your education then reserves is pretty good for that.

If you are looking at Reg force expecting to get education upgrades anytime soon, forget it. It is competitive within the Officer ranks for getting more education. You will not get much choice in anything you do. If you are not comfortable with that, then you are unlikely to be satisfied with the Reg F experience.

I found that they have a great way to wean out those people who are there just for personal gain. In training they make your life pretty miserable, and those who are not truly dedicated take a walk -- some take the walk quickly, others realize it after the fact.

I am well educated and I ended up serving as a NCM, something I really enjoyed since I got to roll in the mud and not have to sweat any organization or people problems. If I had to do it again, I think the reserves would have been better suited...but then I doubt I would have landed a tour in time which was what I was really after.

Anyway, my two cents there.

 

[WoutAngerWoutRemorse]

Wow... and where does "at least 1 year" for a Master's, 2 more years for a PhD, and 3 years + about a year of on the job training for Law fit into that 30 years?

read the post

10 years infantry officer, while getting a masters (I think I can finish a 1 year masters in 10)
10 years intelligence officer (while getting a LLB or JD) I think I can get a 2/3 year degree  in 10 years
10 years Law officer (once again 10 years is sufficient and potentially not necessary to get a PHD once I have three majors in undergrad, have hypothetically gotten a master and a LLB)

PS. should I also explain necessary and sufficient conditions to you? (sorry that was me being rude/funny)

 

[ballz]

read the post

10 years infantry officer, while getting a masters (I think I can finish a 1 year masters in 10)
10 years intelligence officer (while getting a LLB or JD) I think I can get a 2/3 year degree  in 10 years
10 years Law officer (once again 10 years is sufficient and potentially not necessary to get a PHD once I have three majors in undergrad, have hypothetically gotten a master and a LLB)

PS. should I also explain necessary and sufficient conditions to you? (sorry that was me being rude/funny)

I am quite capable of reading it, perhaps you're not capable of critical thinking / problem solving. Another honours student produced by our outstanding post-secondary institutions that probably can't tie his shoes.

In your 30 year career you want to spend at least 7 years of it in school as opposed to working? I suppose you want the full-time salary and the 14% for your pension while you're at it, too?

 

[Pieman]

^^ Your plan looks good on paper, but I don't think you should plan on it. There are some Officers who have finished their PhD while serving after being in for many many years.  So yes it can be done, but I just wonder what you are motivated to go that direction.

But what is your motivation? Are you going into the forces so you can get yourself educated? Or are you joining the Forces so you can become an Infantry Officer because that is what you really want to do? Or as one of my Sargent's put it, "It calls to you, doesn't it?"

I would not take the tone that people here don't understand your posts. They do.

 

[Danny_C]

I can't speak for the exact graduate program you are looking into but many have a maximum allowable time limit of 5-7 years with continual involvement required. Even for part time students. Check with the schools/programs you are considering.

 

[ttlbmg]

As I am reading, I just have a few questions. Why do you want to join the military? What are your goals within the military? You seem very sure of the path you want to take educationally speaking; however you don't seem to have any particular desires in terms of your military career, other than becoming an Int O. Do you want to make it to the rank of major? Do you have an interest in practicing law within the military? I know it might sound ignorant, but you don't seem to have the fire for the military or the infantry. I am just confused as to your motives to join the infantry. If your reasons are just to say that you were an infantry officer, I don't think you would get enjoyment out of it.

 

[PMedMoe]

What I'm getting is that the OP wants to joint as Inf O, do that for 10 years (or until getting his Masters), remuster to Int O, do that for 10 years (or until he gets LLB or JD) and then remuster to Legal Officer.

I can't see that happening myself, OTs aren't always easy, despite one having the qualifications.

 

[dimsum]

My only question (well, at this time) is what happens when you find out that Inf O is a red trade at your 10-year mark and can't transfer out of the trade? 

It seems like you have your life planned out.  That's all well and good, but remember that the military is the definition of "maximum flexibility" in terms of lifestyle and career.  You won't know where you'll end up 6 months down the road, let alone 30 years.  If that doesn't sit well, even a little bit, join the Reserves.

 

[WoutAngerWoutRemorse]

What I'm getting is that the OP wants to joint as Inf O, do that for 10 years (or until getting his Masters), remuster to Int O, do that for 10 years (or until he gets LLB or JD) and then remuster to Legal Officer.

I can't see that happening myself, OTs aren't always easy, despite one having the qualifications.

That is more or less the plan. However, I am completely amendable to change and or development of plans. Thank you all for your comments. From this I am getting an more or less accurate idea of the CF's post enrolment educational opportunities.

 

[OldSolduer]

From this I am getting an more or less accurate idea of the CF's post enrolment educational opportunities.

The real education begins when you start to command troops in the field, not your peers in RMC or where ever. Troops will educate you faster than any university will.

Actually troops can "School" you. Real fast. So can the enemy.

 

[Pusser]

I want to get the best/most of life as I can, while serving my country and teaching /co-operating with others. I can join now as an Infantry Officer and or Intelligence officer.  If I start as a Infantry officer and then get a Master (put in 10 years as infantry) then become and Intelligence Officer (and hopefully get a Masters/PHD in the process), do that for ten years meanwhile getting a law degree and then become a legal officer (do that for 10 years).
I am 25 years old
plus 10 years Infantry officer
plus 10 years Intelligence officer
plus 10 years Legal Officer
=55years old and retire with 30 years service (sounds like a good/well rounded life)
PS. once retired teach and write books

Wow!  I get tired just reading this plan.  You need a little less caffeine in your life.

Your plan is theoretically possible, assuming all the stars and planets align, but not very realistic.

Bouncing from one occupation to another is indeed possible, but never guaranteed and frequently difficult and time consuming.  The trouble is that your desired new occupation must be willing to accept you into their ranks and your current occupation needs to be willing to let you go.  This can be difficult.  Part of the problem is the cost of training you.  Once we've invested in you for one occupation, we want our pound of flesh (and then some). 

On the positive side, the Intelligence Branch wants people to have an operational background, which in ten years in the infantry, you hopefully should have.  As for law school, there is the Military Legal Training Plan (MLTP) which takes serving members and send them to law school - on full salary, with tuition paid (however, you have to get yourself accepted to law school first - on your own).

You seem very confident in your abilities, but overly presumptuous at the same time.  Just because you're super-intelligent and can do 100m in 9.0s with a fridge on your back, does not mean you have what it takes to be an officer in the CF.  There have been plenty of cocksure super-jock overachievers who have failed miserably.

 

[WoutAngerWoutRemorse]

Your plan is theoretically possible, assuming all the stars and planets align, but not very realistic.

On the positive side, the Intelligence Branch wants people to have an operational background, which in ten years in the infantry, you hopefully should have.  As for law school, there is the Military Legal Training Plan (MLTP) which takes serving members and send them to law school - on full salary, with tuition paid (however, you have to get yourself accepted to law school first - on your own).

Wow. Thank you for this post. All these other people who commented, I assume in all earnestness and good faith, must have forgotten about the intelligence branch wanting operational background. And the MLTP which is very kind of you to mention must have just been invented because all the other people were either ignorant of it or didnt want to admit/mention its existence. Well thank you very much for restoring my faith in the kindness/intelligence of others.

PS. I got a 161 on my LSAT and have a 3.0 from U of T, I can easily get into law school. Also I run the 100 in 9.7 and no fridge.\

Thanks a lot I really appreciate your comment.

 

[Scott]

I notice you conveniently snipped out the other very important information your newfound saviour posted for you.

And with your other little digs I am now convinced this isn't going to end well unless you get the exact answers that you desire, and that you might just be a troll.

Good luck.

 

[ballz]

Luckily for you, the CF will provide you with a much-needed healthy dose of reality, too.

But unfortunately, all officer trades require a level of maturity that seems to have flown over your head.

Good bye Troll, I am finally going to figure out how to use the ignore function that Mike so kindly offers.

PS. Another thing that seems to have flown over your head... if the CF is so eager to get INT O's with an operational background... what makes you think they are so eager to let them transfer out?

 

[Scott]

I'm now having a chuckle at thinking of how the interview will go...based on all of these "facts" so eagerly provided.