Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[kratz]

No longer have "HONOUR"

or

No longer have "HONOURS", possibly because they were recreated with different ship names and therefore different historical backgrounds.

Are you sure you're talking about the same thing we are?

Actually I am talking about the same two things. I knew one would get his attenton and I knew one would get action. Sadly, in the contect that somone asked how does this affect army unit amalgamations....it's anathem to losing their identiry.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Actually I am talking about the same two things. I knew one would get his attenton and I knew one would get action. Sadly, in the contect that somone asked how does this affect army unit amalgamations....it's anathem to losing their identiry.

Amalgamation includes the combining of historical backgrounds and honours (battle honours and other), it is not a loss of identity except for those who refuse to accept evolution.

 

[kratz]

Amalgamation includes the combining of historical backgrounds and honours (battle honours and other), it is not a loss of identity except for those who refuse to accept evolution.

PM onbound....I know what I am talking about.

 

[daftandbarmy]

As long as the decision makers are Class "A" soldiers, there will always be a need for a more robust "command overhead" in the Army Reserve to ensure that key decisions, for which authority cannot be delegated down, do not have to wait 5-7 days for a response.

I'm not sure if you were aware of this or not, but all the Class A' COs I know are attached to a Blackberry these days. Consequently, I haven't had anything like the problems getting quick responses these days as compared to 10 years ago. This, and other demands on their time that did not exist 10 years ago, helps to make sure that the 'part time' commitment of a Class A CO can approach a 40 hour week, on top of their other job/life.

 

[dapaterson]

I'm not sure if you were aware of this or not, but all the Class A' COs I know are attached to a Blackberry these days. Consequently, I haven't had anything like the problems getting quick responses these days as compared to 10 years ago. This, and other demands on their time that did not exist 10 years ago, helps to make sure that the 'part time' commitment of a Class A CO can approach a 40 hour week, on top of their other job/life.

Which is criminal.  There are higher formations with ample full-time staff to deal with crap before it intrudes on the lowest level units.  There are precious few things that require a Reserve unit CO to be on call 24/7 with their TardBerry.

The C2 at formation level needs a good shake - to make timely decisions, not to sit on documents for weeks and impose impossible turn-arounds on units (3 weeks in the G3 inbox, 3 days for the unit to reply).  And to know what they are talking about - I'm currently informing the higher HQ about national funding to pay for something they insist the unit should cover.

Hopefully, any rejigging of C2 will fix the sucking chest wound that is the CBG HQs.

 

[tango22a]

dapaterson:

Bravo Zulu for your last post!

tango22a

 

[Rifleman62]

DAP, fully agree. As you know I worked at Bde HQ. Many times Area or Bde would request info they already had in another format. Sometimes it was a lazy staff person, sometimes it was lack of coord within the HQ. As you pointed out Staff often forget that a 3 weeks to a full timer is ofter 3 parade nights to a part timer.

Our ancestors sometimes had an answer for Bde Hq:

8th Bn, 90th Winnipeg Rifles War Diary
19 – 25 Jun 17 - In Line

21st  BGen F.O.W. Loomis came up to Headquarters in the morning, the result of which the Battalion Headquarters was severely shelled. Orders were issued as follows: “In future All Ranks who come to Battalion Headquarters in daylight will be arrested.
…………
24th  Some Brigade personal that visited Battalion Headquarters were put under arrest.

 

[George Wallace]

kratz

I think you got caught up in a "Generalization" in this discussion.  Most of this discussion is over the "Army" Reserves and any implications that any amalgamation will include bring both Air and Naval Reserves into the same amalgamated unit with Army Reservists would be a far stretch.  From what I have seen, the NavRes has kept a firm grip on its organization and MO.  I highly doubt that we will see any amalgamation of NavRes, Air Reserves and Primary Reservists into amalgamated units to mirror the CF within our life times.  We may, however, see individuals filling Class B or Class C posns in the other Elements, within occupations that may permit it.

The Comm Reserve becoming part of the Primary Reserve, is a 'natural' move; both being 'LAND'. 

 

[Journeyman]

kratz
I think you got caught up in a "Generalization" in this discussion..... 

Although it's a perfect example of the....excitability....that this topic always creates.

With little beyond the initial "change is coming; wait out" message, we've already got the full spectrum of responses -- from 'about time' to 'we'll all quit.'



I'm still trying to work Hitler and the NDP into this    ;D

 

[Rifleman62]

My earlier post re the situation in Thunder Bay, pop 115 K with 5 Reserve units was to point out that the Thunder Bay of today cannot sustain 5 reserve units. If the Navy (TB is a logical loc for a NavRes unit), Army, Comms Reserve and CFMG are not going to give, then a possibile course of action to save overhead was to tactically group . Unlikely though.

 

[DannyITR]

If we borrow a page out of the British army's reorganisation and "canadianize" it, I would see something like this happening:

The Vanier Regiment
A coy, The Black Watch
B coy, The Royal Montreal Regiment
C coy, The Canadian Grenadier Guards

Le Régiment De Salabery
A coy, Les Fusiliers Mont Royal
B coy, Le Régiment de Maisonneuve
C coy, Le Régiment de Chateauguay (aka 4 R22R)

The point here is - does Montreal need 6 small understrength battalions ?
When they train together, the Montreal units already shake out and make up composite Infantry battalions... doesn't it make sense to make the arrangements permanent ?

I know your making up an infantry battalion but where would 34CER (formerly 3 FIELD in Westmount) come into play? I don't know how many soldiers our unit has but would it be combined with other engineering regiments to form an engineering battalion in your scenario? Are there even enough engineering regiments to form a battalion?

 

[DannyITR]

Our Reserve units have not fought as a unit for over 60 years, and never will ( mobilization is dead, therefore the theory of why we need so many units is dead).

Can you elaborate on what you mean? Do you mean that our reserve units are degraded to the point where they have become non operational in the field? I look at the US who deploy their National Guard like its nothing and wonder if Canada has the same capability. Is it just a matter of funding for the proper equipment or our organization and training practices not effective?

 

[Rifleman62]

It has to do with population: USA 304 million, Canada 33 million which translates to recruiting base and tax base to support the payroll/equipment etc. Almost all of the USA has a land mass that can support human life, industry, agriculture, Canada has not. I believe the USA has a different mindset regarding the military than Canada, examples of which are numerous.

In 2006, Thunder Bay had a population of 8280 people age 15 -19, the core of Reserve recruiting. There were a further 8050 in the 20 - 24 age group that may join/remain in the Reserves after attending university/community collage/working full time. There must be an economic base to support young people to remain in the area. In Thunder Bay the trend is downward. You cannot support 5 Reserve units with these demographs.

Please, this is not a shot at Thunder Bay.

 

[Monsoon]

All the forum members have weighed off of this thread and taken pot shots from shore at the Naval Reserve as if the Stone Frigates and the role of NavRes was secondary to the fight.

In fairness to the other forum participants, I haven't seen anyone say that. And it seems there's a general consensus that what NAVRES does is rather too different to be integrated with the militia as part of the same unit (as opposed to two separate units sharing facilities). We do fall under a separate L1 and have a whole different set of governing regulations at a fairly high level: MARCORDs, MARCOM SSOs, NAVRESORDs, etc. Trying to merge SOPs would be a recipe for disaster.

Command of the NRDs is now expected to be at the Lt(N) or LCdr level vice the old LCdr / Cdr. and the Coxn is now expected to be a CPO2 vice a CPO1 in the NRDs under the 2010 plan.

That's not the 2010 plan - those are the arrangements as they've existed since the mid-nineties. The only Cdrs commanding NRDs these days are those who have already commanded another unit first (and taken the staff course, and fulfilled staff roles, etc). And I haven't seen a CPO1 at an NRD since... ever. In 12 years at some large units, I have never paraded with a CPO1.

There is 30,000 aremy reserve and that is why I ask Haggis to stop. There is only 2000 NavRes.

Well, the numbers are about 20,000 and 3,500 in current strength (as opposed to funded manning level), but I take it your point is that there are more than enough militia units with more than enough problems unique to the militia to straighten out before there should be any talk of merging units from distinct elements. And that I agree with.

 

[DannyITR]

It has to do with population: USA 304 million, Canada 33 million which translates to recruiting base and tax base to support the payroll/equipment etc. Almost all of the USA has a land mass that can support human life, industry, agriculture, Canada has not. I believe the USA has a different mindset regarding the military than Canada, examples of which are numerous.

In 2006, Thunder Bay had a population of 8280 people age 15 -19, the core of Reserve recruiting. There were a further 8050 in the 20 - 24 age group that may join/remain in the Reserves after attending university/community collage/working full time. There must be an economic base to support young people to remain in the area. In Thunder Bay the trend is downward. You cannot support 5 Reserve units with these demographs.

Please, this is not a shot at Thunder Bay.

Are our reserve units deployable in their current condition in your opinion? Would they be deployed as battalions comprising of the example companies example post quoted above? Could a single regiment be deplooyed (overseas or local)?

 

[Rifleman62]

Danny, read the thread and you will be enlightened and come to the logical answer to your questions.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Are our reserve units deployable in their current condition in your opinion? Would they be deployed as battalions comprising of the example companies example post quoted above? Could a single regiment be deplooyed (overseas or local)?

In short, no, but I also encourage you to read this thread and others on Reserve organization and capabilities.

 

[geo]

I know your making up an infantry battalion but where would 34CER (formerly 3 FIELD in Westmount) come into play? I don't know how many soldiers our unit has but would it be combined with other engineering regiments to form an engineering battalion in your scenario? Are there even enough engineering regiments to form a battalion?

Danny
3 FER and 9 FES were amalgamated into one unit - 34 CER.
34 CER is composed of 4 FES, 9 FES & sorta 16 FES.
Current doctrine has it that each Brigade has it's own Engineer Reg't.... Reserve CERs have a tendency to be very poor in the equipment department.

You have to understand that, to form an Infantry bn, you need more than one company.
To form an Engineer Reg't, you need more than one squadron.

If practical terms, Engineer units seldom deploy into the field as once complete unit - Squadrons & troops are dispatched hither & yon to make the other Combat arms units work better 8)

Between the Squadrons in Rouyn Noranda & Westmount, 34 CER car really and truly be considered a Regiment... though it is challenged in the tools and resources needed to do the work.

 

[geo]

Are our reserve units deployable in their current condition in your opinion? Would they be deployed as battalions comprising of the example companies example post quoted above? Could a single regiment be deplooyed (overseas or local)?

Reserve units are currently not deployable.  The Cheif of Land Staff is not looking to change our mission - which is to provide individual and sub-sub-sub unit augmentation to the regular force (aka Section).

During the 98 Ice storm, 3 FER was able to field a full Squadron in support of domestic operations... Way more than anyone believed them capable of - feather in their cap for having accomplished the near impossible.

 

[CBH99]

The Calgary Highlanders deployed a 75 person sub-unit a year or so ago, and right now about 90% of my regiment is deployed.  (18 Air Defense).

Out of the 31 members that regularily parade, 19 are in workup for Afghanistan and 2 are in workup for Haiti.

Quiet parade square these days...