D.I.E. cis-het white men bun fight [Split from:SWO badge]

[btrudy]

If you want to see real discrimination in action, just grow old in a company you have worked a long time for and are collecting and using your benefits and vacation time. HR will work very hard to get rid of you and replace you with a newer, younger, cheaper employee. This effect is stalled for the moment thanks labour shortages, but will come back with a vengeance as soon as possible.

Sounds like a good reason to unionize.

 

[OldSolduer]

Sounds like a good reason to unionize.

You really think unions protect performance?

They protect the ones who are bottom feeders. The chronically troubled ones.

 

[Quirky]

You really think unions protect performance?

They protect the ones who are bottom feeders. The chronically troubled ones.

We don’t need a union to protect the bottom feeders, we do that already.

 

[mariomike]

You really think unions protect performance?

Ours would tolerate almost anything, after probation.

As long as you did not become a public disgrace, and never, EVER, admit the department did anything wrong.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Desirable posting locations with quality, affordable housing would actually go a long way.

Desirable locations with quality, affordable housing are a bit in demand by everyone, not just people subject to posting.

Unionization can be limiting if you're capable of high performance.

 

[dimsum]

Unionization can be limiting if you're capable of high performance.

Are the proponents for unionization concerned about the bottom feeders keeping their jobs? The arguments I see/hear about it is about collective bargaining.

I'm still on the fence whether it's a good thing or not.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Proponents for unionization have different reasons. Unions once formed are, unremarkably, like every other bureaucracy that sets as its first imperative the health of the bureaucracy. Collective bargaining has a tendency to level everything out. People capable of turning in excellent performance and reaping the rewards (bonus compensation, accelerated promotion) are tall daisies.

 

[Booter]

Are the proponents for unionization concerned about the bottom feeders keeping their jobs? The arguments I see/hear about it is about collective bargaining.

I'm still on the fence whether it's a good thing or not.

I find it odd that the people most obsessed with splintering people into groups for classification are most concerned with collective bargaining.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Are the proponents for unionization concerned about the bottom feeders keeping their jobs? The arguments I see/hear about it is about collective bargaining.

I'm still on the fence whether it's a good thing or not.

It seems to work for some conscripted militaries, where their only role is national defence on home turf and millions of souls are involved.

Tiny 'Expeditionary Forces' like ours? Not so much IMHO.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I was a Union guy, a Steward for 32 years, one thing you better know is eventually seniority will rule. You work hard to get the nice Outcan, posting, promotion, etc?? No one cares, Slothtoed Bloggins has 2 more months then you so he gets the peanut butter and you get jammed.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

It seems to work for some conscripted militaries, where their only role is national defence on home turf and millions of souls are involved.

Tiny 'Expeditionary Forces' like ours? Not so much IMHO.

And where a far away posting might mean a 5 hour drive to visit your folks....

 

[mariomike]

, one thing you better know is eventually seniority will rule.

Seniority ( Senior Qualified Process ) determined where you work, when you work, who you work with, what job you work, when you take vacation etc. Pretty much everything.

There was a Relative Ability Process for Critical Care. ( Good idea. )

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'd rather see the Grievance process strengthened by (1) making it so IAs HAVE to respect timelines and (2) career ramifications if they don't as opposed to being handcuffed to some union and their agenda.

I'd also reduce the timelines the IA has to reply and the grievor has to submit to 30 days each. Remove CAF Officers from the grievance system as analysts/have a non-CAF agency perform the analysis process.

Mostly though, specific penalties to IAs who do not do their job. Career penalties or monetary ones...or both.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Me too

They also shouldn't get to choose their trade either..... equal representation in all trades

Welcome to the Mobile Infantry!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Are the proponents for unionization concerned about the bottom feeders keeping their jobs? The arguments I see/hear about it is about collective bargaining.

I'm still on the fence whether it's a good thing or not.

Having worked in both union and non-union, local companies up to about 100 people do well without unions as there is a more hands on approach. After that, the company can become more bureaucratic and harder for humans to manage in a humane way. a large organization like the government can crush someone, without even meaning to and you would have no recourse whatsoever without the union. I see them as a necessary evil, equally rigid in their policies and mandate as management, but at least obligated to represent you. I have known Shop Stewards that have created great working relationships with management to resolve these typical frictions in a non combative way. Also Shop Stewards struggling to contain their desire to drag the useless waste of O2 of an employee out into the alley and beat the snot out of them and instead having to represent them in grievances.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Also Shop Stewards struggling to contain their desire to drag the useless waste of O2 of an employee out into the alley and beat the snot out of them and instead having to represent them in grievances.

TESTIFY!!!!

 

[daftandbarmy]

Having worked in both union and non-union, local companies up to about 100 people do well without unions as there is a more hands on approach. After that, the company can become more bureaucratic and harder for humans to manage in a humane way. a large organization like the government can crush someone, without even meaning to and you would have no recourse whatsoever without the union. I see them as a necessary evil, equally rigid in their policies and mandate as management, but at least obligated to represent you. I have known Shop Stewards that have created great working relationships with management to resolve these typical frictions in a non combative way. Also Shop Stewards struggling to contain their desire to drag the useless waste of O2 of an employee out into the alley and beat the snot out of them and instead having to represent them in grievances.

I watched a painful exchange between management and union leaders regarding an employee who was off work - on long term disability - because of an alleged back injury that stopped her from working at a sawmill.

Awkwardly, for her, she appeared the week before on the front page of the local paper having won first prize at a weight lifting competition.

The Union guys ate alot of crow that day, but finally agreed that she should be fired. This experience confirmed for me that I would never, ever want to do that kind of job

 

[Halifax Tar]

I had a P1 Storesman who couldn't store ship according to his MELs but he ran marathons.

I accidentally dropped a 50lb bag spuds on him one day as he heckled us storing ship by hand from the flight deck.

Good guy, ended up teaching me how to play guitar.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I accidentally dropped a 50lb bag spuds on him one day as he heckled us storing ship by hand from the flight deck.

 

[Eaglelord17]

tl;dr Bigotry exists, a lot of people in the CAF are bigots, and thus that bigotry changes the way that certain people are "dealt with".

The Canadian Armed Forces is a microcosm of Canadian Society, which is by and large racist. It in particular was set up by white Christian men, to suit white Christian men.

Efforts made to eradicate even people who are actively members of hate groups are inadequate, let alone those people who simply hold bigoted views and allow those views to taint their decision making processes, all of which will A) disadvantage members who "don't fit the mold", while at the same time serving to aid people who do "fit in".

Likewise sexual assaults or harassments, which in the CAF are predominately targeting women, are poorly investigated, leading many victims to leave due to the lack of support, or to be revictimized when they do report and instead the system as a whole moves to target them and smear their reputation, rather than the person who actually deserves it (for this, see the 2nd most recent article by he-who-shall-not-be-named-on-this-site-because-the-moderators-couldn't-be-bothered-to-remove-defamatory-comments). Likewise a similar approach is often taken against folks who try to support victims, as we saw with LCdr Trotter.

Firstly Canadian society is probably the least racist society on the planet, I challenge you to name one country which has less racism. That doesn’t mean there aren’t racists, simply that every society has them.

Secondly there are bigots everywhere, based off your posts I could potentially consider you one (not saying you are or aren’t, I try to reserve judgement for in person conversations). That doesn’t mean people are treated terribly or wrongly. If you have one bad supervisor your next one might be a excellent one, its all variable and it depends on where you are. I have had terrible supervisors in and out of the military, but by and large the supervisors I have had in the military have been better than the ones I have had civilian side. You are not always going to see eye to eye with your supervisor, that doesn’t mean they are bigoted either.

As to the sexual assaults and harassment, based off what I have experienced they take it very seriously. More seriously than civilian police forces tend to from what I have seen. The move to make it no longer under the MPs in my opinion is a colossal mistake and shall likely result in worse outcomes than having the MPs take care of it. The CAF has changed significantly on this in the last 7 years, the result being we deal with it much better than they do civvy side, or at least did before they took the MPs out of the equation.

After reading this thread, I'm entirely sold on a "diversity conscription" to meet the exact demographics of Canada. Let's press some folks into service for the greater good.

Bermuda does this, it works for them as it is more to address the rich/poor divide in their country. It is the only way to achieve this perfect representation of society. But I would always argue against it as to me conscription is inherently wrong.