Current Dress Regs

[Furniture]

My big takeaway from this change is that “don’t judge a book by its cover” wasn’t a lesson hoisted in by many folks.

Likely because it's a unachievable ideal used to teach children to be nice to people who look different, not a serious adult approach to life. We all judge people based on their appearance daily. We do it so often we don't even consciously think about the fact it's happening.

Some light reading that touches on my point. Dress is a Fundamental Component of Person Perception

I think the biggest takeaway is that there are societal expectation for what professional military members look like, and the CAF needs to conform to those expectations. The old dress regulations needed updating, but we went a bit too far.

 

[Grimey]

Luckily, we consign the majority of our CAF members to internal exile in remote parts of Canada so the public doesn't come across them much

FWIW, the (very) few CAF folks I've seen in public around here looked fairly 'normal' in their NCDs etc.

Can’t say the same. I saw LS (oops, S1) Bag-o-shite Bloggins in the Colwood Thrifty’s a few weeks back. Submariner coveralls with the ‘morale’ patches (wtf is that about, we made do with a ships crest and name tag) scraggly hair to his mid shoulders and pooor imitation ZZ Top beard. It was actually quite shocking. I went home harrumphing and bleated about it to the wife.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Can’t say the same. I saw LS (oops, S1) Bag-o-shite Bloggins in the Colwood Thrifty’s a few weeks back. Submariner coveralls with the ‘morale’ patches (wtf is that about, we made do with a ships crest and name tag) scraggly hair to his mid shoulders and pooor imitation ZZ Top beard. It was actually quite shocking. I went home harrumphing and bleated about it to the wife.

Did you tell them?

 

[mariomike]

My big takeaway from this change is that “don’t judge a book by its cover” wasn’t a lesson hoisted in by many folks.

I read you have 7 seconds to make a first impression.

You And Your Business Have 7 Seconds To Make A First Impression: Here's How To Succeed

Every entrepreneur knows that first impressions are important, but you may not know just how little time you have to actually make one.

www.forbes.com

How Many Seconds to a First Impression?​

How Many Seconds to a First Impression?

You'll never get a second chance to make a great first impression." We've all heard that an interviewer, or a stranger at a party, will form an impression of you, your character, your personality — …

www.psychologicalscience.org

 

[Grimey]

Did you tell them?

Being twelve years removed from uniform and peripherally aware that the dress and deportment manual had been binned, I just side eyed him scornfully.

 

[dimsum]

Likely because it's a unachievable ideal used to teach children to be nice to people who look different, not a serious adult approach to life. We all judge people based on their appearance daily. We do it so often we don't even consciously think about the fact it's happening.

Some light reading that touches on my point. Dress is a Fundamental Component of Person Perception

Yes we do. Is it correct to do so?

I think the biggest takeaway is that there are societal expectation for what professional military members look like, and the CAF needs to conform to those expectations. The old dress regulations needed updating, but we went a bit too far.

Until 2018, the societal expectation was that military members, unless in the Navy or Pioneers, were clean shaven. The social media backlash to BEARDFORGEN is much like the one now - being called “unprofessional” or “lazy” for having beards at all, plus the whole gas mask fit thing.

 

[btrudy]

Are we writing dress policy to appease 20%?

The CAF has lost credibility, internally and internationally, with this track. All to appease what, 20%?

We are writing our dress policy to be broadly inclusive, because inclusivity is a fundamental Canadian value.

And frankly, at the end of the day I would consider that actually walking the walk when it comes to such values is more important than whatever "credibility" we might lose from other countries which don't hold those same values.

 

[Castus]

We are writing our dress policy to be broadly inclusive, because inclusivity is a fundamental Canadian value.

And frankly, at the end of the day I would consider that actually walking the walk when it comes to such values is more important than whatever "credibility" we might lose from other countries which don't hold those same values.

I and many others disagree with your viewpoints on this topic. Most of us (including myself) are not particularly articulate when presenting our cases because they are probably more instinctual than intellectual, but I'll try my best.

Credibility and effectiveness is more important than current day inclusivity, which is really, in my opinion, a race to to the bottom. We ought actually to be an exclusive institution. We ought to be elite and composed of society's best - not representative of every aspect of said society.

Our role is not to be representative of our society. Our role is to protect the Crown & state institutions. To that end, and in the effort to have strong morale & recruit the finest people, we ought to preserve clear standards that distinguish us from the broader society. This doesn't mean necessarily that we have to be clean shaven - nor that we can't change our dress regulations. What it means is that whenever someone sees a member of the Royal Canadian Navy, the Canadian Army or the Royal Canadian Air Force in public, they should recognise excellence in our bearing, our dress and deportment and in the type of people we are.

We are falling short of the mark.

 

[Furniture]

Yes we do. Is it correct to do so?

Why would it not be correct? It is a useful tool for daily life, otherwise it wouldn't have evolved the way it has. I'm not suggesting we can't/shouldn't change our personal perceptions of certain styles of dress. I'm simply pointing out that in the real world, how you present yourself to others matters. No amount of wishful thinking will change that, it's built into our coding.

Until you get to know the character of a person, all you can judge them on is the way they choose to present themselves in the world. If someone chooses to look unkempt, then they will be treated like someone who can't even be bothered to do the basics to look presentable and professional in our society.

Until 2018, the societal expectation was that military members, unless in the Navy or Pioneers, were clean shaven. The social media backlash to BEARDFORGEN is much like the one now - being called “unprofessional” or “lazy” for having beards at all, plus the whole gas mask fit thing.

Except BEARDFORGEN had clearly laid-out standards for beard appearance, which conformed to the standards for Pioneers, and the RCN. Standards which were entirely acceptable to Canadian society as a whole, unlike "dwarven beards", and some of the other looks that came from the last dress regulations updates.

The social media "backlash" for BEARDFORGEN was limited to a few angry vetflakes, the in person and social media backlash for the current regulations seems to be far broader, crossing national borders.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not opposed to purple hair, long hair, or beards. I just think there needs to be clear standards for how the hair and beards are groomed. If a guy wants hot pink mid-back length hair, and a beard, rock it. Just rock it in a neatly groomed professional style, not a rat's nest beard and hair all over the place.

 

[Kilted]

Was there an issue or incident where Canadians were kicked off a parade for the late queen because of our appearance?

I have heard speculation that Canadians won't be invited to mount the King's Guard anymore.

 

[btrudy]

I and many others disagree with your viewpoints on this topic. Most of us (including myself) are not particularly articulate when presenting our cases because they are probably more instinctual than intellectual, but I'll try my best.

Credibility and effectiveness is more important than current day inclusivity, which is really, in my opinion, a race to to the bottom. We ought actually to be an exclusive institution. We ought to be elite and composed of society's best - not representative of every aspect of said society.

Frankly, I couldn't disagree more.

To that end, and in the effort to have strong morale & recruit the finest people, we ought to preserve clear standards that distinguish us from the broader society.

Ok, so let's go with a thought experiment here. If we want to have clear standards that distinguish ourselves from the broader society, why not make purple hair and goatees mandatory?

It's clear, it's a standard. It would certainly mark us as exclusive.

Why exactly is the standard that you deem acceptable boil down to "what middle to upper class men wore in the 1950s"?

And how exactly is that defensible? Why pick that as the standard to be attained?

But anyways, I disagree with the premise that exclusionary standards increase morale. They actually decrease morale for anyone who wasn't already inclined to wear their hair that way, etc etc. All you're doing is alienating / driving out the type of people who don't fit in to those "standards".

 

[mariomike]

It was actually quite shocking. I went home harrumphing and bleated about it to the wife.

Some say public support ( not referring to you, Grimey ) is only an inch deep. After seeing something like that, their depth of support may become even more shallow.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Ugh this whole thing could have been avoided if we just put clear grooming standards on paper and expectations of how people present themselves at work. Our inability to give clear concise direction/orders is laughable.

For the record I am very much in favor of the dress changes, my disappointment comes from how many of us suddenly took it to the extreme and decided looking like a a hobo in Army surplus chic was the way.

What I do personally struggle with is the hair coloring. Nope, don't like that. But it's not my decision.

I have long hair and a horseshoe mustache. But my hair is short on the sides and slicked back and my mustache is always trimmed and neat. When not on a ship and I have my full beard it's always neatly trimmed and shaped.

 

[Remius]

Frankly, I couldn't disagree more.

What are the particulars of that disagreement? We exclude a large swath of society on the basis of several factors. Ultimately we want the best as mentioned but practically we need people that can do various jobs we need them to. The very nature of the work will exclude a number of people.

Ok, so let's go with a thought experiment here. If we want to have clear standards that distinguish ourselves from the broader society, why not make purple hair and goatees mandatory?

The question should be why make that the standard not “why not”.

It's clear, it's a standard. It would certainly mark us as exclusive.

Again, what would it achieve and what would be the reasoning for it?

Why exactly is the standard that you deem acceptable boil down to "what middle to upper class men wore in the 1950s"?

Why do you assume that that is the reasoning? When I hear that sort of line, I don’t think that it’s coming from a genuine thought for reasoning but rather some sort of anti establishment bias.

And how exactly is that defensible? Why pick that as the standard to be attained?

Again, you have defined that standard as to what you think it is based on your feelings. And how is it any less defensible as the standard that you want to see?

But anyways, I disagree with the premise that exclusionary standards increase morale.

To a certain extent you have a point. But that depends on what your definition of standards is. There is however a certain level of cohesion and pride for some to achieve certain standards. If the standard to get a certain qual is X, there is some pride in achieving that standard and being surrounded by those that do. Earning your cap badge, wings, berets etc are all part of that.

They actually decrease morale for anyone who wasn't already inclined to wear their hair that way, etc etc. All you're doing is alienating / driving out the type of people who don't fit in to those "standards".

Is there any evidence of that though? I can honestly say that I probably know more that have been driven out by falling standards. But that is no more evidentiary than your assertion. But in my mind that is only one factor driving people away not THE factor.

The dress regs have been tightened up with clearer direction now. It was also based on data that showed that most CAF members have not really responded positively to the last one, hence the tightening up of the regs.

 

[Halifax Tar]

To a certain extent you have a point. But that depends on what your definition of standards is. There is however a certain level of cohesion and pride for some to achieve certain standards. If the standard to get a certain qual is X, there is some pride in achieving that standard and being surrounded by those that do. Earning your cap badge, wings, berets etc are all part of that.

Excellent post. Well put @Remius.

 

[Remius]

Ugh this whole thing could have been avoided if just put clear grooming standards on paper and expectations of how people present themselves at work. Our inability to give clear concise direction/orders is laughable.

This is part of the problem and was likely reactionary to current events.

For the record I am very much in favor of the dress changes, my disappointment comes from how many of us suddenly took it to the extreme and decided looking like a a hobo in Army surplus chic was the way.

I am as well. My mistake was thinking we would still look professional.

What I do personally struggle with is the hair coloring. Nope, don't like that. But it's not my decision.

Same. While I’ve seen a few CAF wide, my unit has no one with crazy hair colour. Homeless Wizards for sure but all natural hair colour.

I have long hair and a horseshoe mustache. But my hair is short on the sides and slicked back and my mustache is always trimmed and neat. When not on a ship and I have my full beard it's always neatly trimmed and shaped.

I generally wear a beard. Started doing that to demonstrate a standard when beardforgen came out. Unless in ceremonial where I will shave.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Was there an issue or incident where Canadians were kicked off a parade for the late queen because of our appearance?

That is the word I got from a friend who was there.

 

[lenaitch]

Any discussion about appearance standards ultimately becomes circular; doesn't matter if it is the military, law enforcement or Tim Horton's. Any bar or line in the sand will, by it's nature, result in people falling outside, and who will feel unfairly treated.

When you are in the company's duds and/or on its clock, it is their image. If it's a polka dot onesie with a beanie and propeller, applicants and employees have a decision to make.

One difference between a public institution and a private company is the corporate world will see more immediate impact on their bottom line if their employees look like bikers or pirates.

In a perfect world, outward appearance should not override competence and performance, but we aren't there. As a citizen taxpayer, I expect my publicly-funded military to represent my country professionally and honourably. I can't fully define what that looks like but, as they say about art, 'I don't know art but I know what I like'.

 

[Grimey]

That is the word I got from a friend who was there.

That’s a massive drop in standards if true. The RCAF provided the Buckingham Palace guard for a spell only a few years ago. I had an ex-stoker colleague who’d re-enlisted as an AVN tech and who was part of it. He gave me a rundown on being beasted by the nasty Guards’ Colour Sergeants.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

That’s a massive drop in standards if true. The RCAF provided the Buckingham Palace guard for a spell only a few years ago. I had an ex-stoker colleague who’d re-enlisted as an AVN tech and who was part of it. He gave me a rundown on being beasted by the nasty Guards’ Colour Sergeants.

I know folks who were there. They said it was interesting, but they never, ever want to do that again….