Current Dress Regs

[childs56]

Talking with people who just came back, it wasn't hair color that made us look bad, it was poor leadership, training, and skirting safety regulations to the point it's only a matter of time until someone is killed. Blaming hair colour's is the easy button to avoid looking at the deeper issues.

Lots of differences between Canadian and European standards across the board for safety on any and all things. As simple as loading ammo on a truck and how you do it can be much different then some of our allies.
Live fire ranges were a big difference between Canadian, British and Americans when I was in. I can only imagine working in Europe now with multiple allies in the works.
Add in the appearance of soldiers and you may have to include a conscious and unconscious bias towards our members.

 

[Furniture]

I don't understand why though as that is part of being a leader, dealing with the negatives.

There is a difference between being disliked for enforcing the rules, and not wanting to charge into the minefield of personal appearance, given the ambiguous regulations.

HAIR​

1. Hair shall not prevent the proper wear of a military headdress or protective equipment. Hair must be worn so that without headdress the member’s face is visible. Full or partial shaving of hair on the head is permitted. Colouring of hair is permitted. The wearing of wigs, locks, or hair extensions is permitted. Long hair is permitted but must be secured accordingly when extending below the top/ridge of the shoulder in such a manner to prevent hair from falling in or covering the face when leaning forward. Acceptable accessories to secure hair include, but are not limited to, clips, barrettes, bobby pins, fabric elastics, elastic bands, and hair nets.
2. In cases where Safety and/or Operational effectiveness may be compromised, or where a hairstyle is associated with a cultural, religious or spiritual belief that does not align with this policy, members are to refer to DAOD 5516-3 and section 3 of this chapter.
3. Facial Hair. All styles of facial hair and sideburns are authorized. Facial hair may be braided/pony tail style and coloured. Accessories to secure facial hair include but are not limited to: barrettes, bobby pins, fabric elastics, elastic bands, and hair nets. Commanders of commands, task force commanders and commanding officers retain the right to order restrictions on the wearing of a facial hair and sideburns to meet national regulations such as DAOD 5021-1, Respiratory Protection or other operational requirements.

A person can look unprofessional because of their beard, and not be unsafe. Hair can be above the collar but look like it's never been combed/brushed, can be up in pink hair scrunchies, etc... The point is, the regulations are vague, so people are not going to risk trying to enforce their interpretation of vague rules.

Clearly the CAF leadership though the same way, because they are updating the regulations with clearer descriptions of what is and isn't acceptable. So maybe people on Army.ca can stop pretending it's a unit level problem...

 

[daftandbarmy]

Lots of differences between Canadian and European standards across the board for safety on any and all things. As simple as loading ammo on a truck and how you do it can be much different then some of our allies.
Live fire ranges were a big difference between Canadian, British and Americans when I was in. I can only imagine working in Europe now with multiple allies in the works.
Add in the appearance of soldiers and you may have to include a conscious and unconscious bias towards our members.

At least we're getting some international attention

Canadian Armed Forces members rock mullets and place second at annual military skills competition

Sporting mullets, Canadian Armed Forces officer cadets placed second in an annual military skills competition in the U.S.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Gunplumber]

At least we're getting some international attention

Canadian Armed Forces members rock mullets and place second at annual military skills competition

Sporting mullets, Canadian Armed Forces officer cadets placed second in an annual military skills competition in the U.S.

www.ctvnews.ca

And troops without mullets took first place.......

 

[Furniture]

And troops without mullets took first place.......

And troops without mullets did a lot worse too... Almost like the mullets didn't impact anything.

I think mullets look stupid, but I also acknowledge that they are not an operational liability.

 

[CountDC]

There is a difference between being disliked for enforcing the rules, and not wanting to charge into the minefield of personal appearance, given the ambiguous regulations.

HAIR​

1. Hair shall not prevent the proper wear of a military headdress or protective equipment. Hair must be worn so that without headdress the member’s face is visible. Full or partial shaving of hair on the head is permitted. Colouring of hair is permitted. The wearing of wigs, locks, or hair extensions is permitted. Long hair is permitted but must be secured accordingly when extending below the top/ridge of the shoulder in such a manner to prevent hair from falling in or covering the face when leaning forward. Acceptable accessories to secure hair include, but are not limited to, clips, barrettes, bobby pins, fabric elastics, elastic bands, and hair nets.
2. In cases where Safety and/or Operational effectiveness may be compromised, or where a hairstyle is associated with a cultural, religious or spiritual belief that does not align with this policy, members are to refer to DAOD 5516-3 and section 3 of this chapter.
3. Facial Hair. All styles of facial hair and sideburns are authorized. Facial hair may be braided/pony tail style and coloured. Accessories to secure facial hair include but are not limited to: barrettes, bobby pins, fabric elastics, elastic bands, and hair nets. Commanders of commands, task force commanders and commanding officers retain the right to order restrictions on the wearing of a facial hair and sideburns to meet national regulations such as DAOD 5021-1, Respiratory Protection or other operational requirements.

A person can look unprofessional because of their beard, and not be unsafe. Hair can be above the collar but look like it's never been combed/brushed, can be up in pink hair scrunchies, etc... The point is, the regulations are vague, so people are not going to risk trying to enforce their interpretation of vague rules.

Clearly the CAF leadership though the same way, because they are updating the regulations with clearer descriptions of what is and isn't acceptable. So maybe people on Army.ca can stop pretending it's a unit level problem...

Sooo - where is the problem? The change to hair is in basic terms it must be secured back but oh that is already there. Beards was easy to understand and had the CO clause to order restrictions that seemed clear to me. and as already said it has always been easy enough to ask higher for their input. Hi Bde Comd, this is Regt CO, can you confirm that as we are going into the gas hut I can tell Cpl Bloggins he needs to have a mask fitting and trim his beard accordingly. I can! thanks.

Maybe people at the unit level with positions of authority should stop being so scared of getting a hand slap and using the excuse the regs are not clear. If it isn't clear enough ask. I would get asked several times a week to clarify policies, make a call or ask higher and yeah have taken the slap for getting it slightly wrong on occasion. My bad, won't happen again, carry on like your normal, next!. I stick with - isn't that what a leader supposed to do?

I am just too old for this modern military of ours. Miss the days when people could make the call and either get backed up or take the slap.

One of my fav CO's worded it something like this - give me your view of the policy and what my arcs are that will result in me not going to jail.

 

[Furniture]

Sooo - where is the problem? The change to hair is in basic terms it must be secured back but oh that is already there. Beards was easy to understand and had the CO clause to order restrictions that seemed clear to me. and as already said it has always been easy enough to ask higher for their input. Hi Bde Comd, this is Regt CO, can you confirm that as we are going into the gas hut I can tell Cpl Bloggins he needs to have a mask fitting and trim his beard accordingly. I can! thanks.

Maybe people at the unit level with positions of authority should stop being so scared of getting a hand slap and using the excuse the regs are not clear. If it isn't clear enough ask. I would get asked several times a week to clarify policies, make a call or ask higher and yeah have taken the slap for getting it slightly wrong on occasion. My bad, won't happen again, carry on like your normal, next!. I stick with - isn't that what a leader supposed to do?

I am just too old for this modern military of ours. Miss the days when people could make the call and either get backed up or take the slap.

One of my fav CO's worded it something like this - give me your view of the policy and what my arcs are that will result in me not going to jail.

We are not talking about the same things...

I am talking about people looking unprofessional, you keep going back to ops and/or safety issues.

There is a difference between being told "stand down, you got that wrong", and "We have received a harassment complaint from S3 Bloggings that you made inappropriate comments about their personal appearance. This made them feel unsafe in the workspace, so you are going to work from home until the UDI is finished".

 

[QV]

There is a difference between being told "stand down, you got that wrong", and "We have received a harassment complaint from S3 Bloggings that you made inappropriate comments about their personal appearance. This made them feel unsafe in the workspace, so you are going to work from home until the UDI is finished".

If that is where CAF has gotten to, I don't know if there is any coming back from that.

 

[Jarnhamar]

If that is where CAF has gotten to, I don't know if there is any coming back from that.

We've gotten to the point where a SNCO can sexually harass a soldier, get called out for it, then go on sick leave themselves because of the stress of getting caught and their subsequent treatment afterwards.

 

[Furniture]

If that is where CAF has gotten to, I don't know if there is any coming back from that.

I suspect it's not something likely to happen, but like shark or bear attacks, though very unlikely to happen, they are unpleasant when they do happen.

This causes people to change their behaviour to avoid the potential unpleasant consequences of being the statistic.

Edit: Also, no amount of Army.ca moral outrage will change human behaviour. If you don't believe me, look at the reality that the CAF is changing the regulations, and specifically clarifying the standards.

 

[Halifax Tar]

We've gotten to the point where a SNCO can sexually harass a soldier, get called out for it, then go on sick leave themselves because of the stress of getting caught and their subsequent treatment afterwards.

That's what happens when mental health becomes a shield against responsibility...

 

[daftandbarmy]

That's what happens when mental health becomes a shield against responsibility...

And, as this seems to be a new kind of epidemic, the shrinks are all over that one...

Using Mental Health as an Excuse for Bad Behavior​

“My bad mental health made me do it.”​

• As awareness of mental health issues has grown, so too has the prevalence of people blaming their bad behavior on "poor mental health."
• Using one's mental health as a standalone reason for negative behaviours can sometimes be a form of psychological avoidance.
• Taking responsibility for your mental health means looking beyond immediate distressing situations to broader psychological origins and roots.

Using Mental Health as an Excuse for Bad Behavior

Do you often blame a boss or a bad workplace for your poor mood or bad behavior at home?

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[OldSolduer]

That's what happens when mental health becomes a shield against responsibility...

When we redeployed from Bosnia in 1997 we were told in no uncertain terms you are responsible for your own actions no matter what mental trauma you underwent. It is also infecting the criminal justice system with a serial murderer stating "God made him do it" and he's schizophrenic.
Schizophrenic people for the most part don't take part in cold calculated serial murder.

 

[Navy_Pete]

3.Facial Hair. All styles of facial hair and sideburns are authorized. Facial hair may be braided/pony tail style and coloured. Accessories to secure facial hair include but are not limited to: barrettes, bobby pins, fabric elastics, elastic bands, and hair nets. Commanders of commands, task force commanders and commanding officers retain the right to order restrictions on the wearing of a facial hair and sideburns to meet national regulations such as DAOD 5021-1, Respiratory Protection or other operational requirements.

It will be nice if this is enforced, but assumes COs heads are outside their ass. Had some shining star claim they knew better than the OEM, our own studies, international experts etc that beards don't impact fire fighter mask seal (because they knew a guy that knew a guy or some nonsense). Would be nice if it came down from CRCN as a NAVORD.

Really shouldn't retain the right to enforce a national level order from the CDS on what is needed to properly wear a piece of life safety equipment (or not enforce said order).

 

[Furniture]

It will be nice if this is enforced, but assumes COs heads are outside their ass. Had some shining star claim they knew better than the OEM, our own studies, international experts etc that beards don't impact fire fighter mask seal (because they knew a guy that knew a guy or some nonsense). Would be nice if it came down from CRCN as a NAVORD.

Really shouldn't retain the right to enforce a national level order from the CDS on what is needed to properly wear a piece of life safety equipment (or not enforce said order).

I'm about to go do BASRT with ST(P)... I'll let you know how it goes WRT shaving.

 

[markppcli]

Prove it. Because if there were any actual discussions had at the levels that matter, I'm sure we would have been an about turn.

On deployed operations, its actions that matters.

True but not true. We’re in Latvia working in the same spaces as militaries that take fitness and deportment extremely seriously. We, quite frankly, do not generally out perform them to the point that we prove we can over come this. Poles, Spaniards, Italians, and others have commented to many of my friends that the look rediculous, that we look like bums, and in some cases won’t work with our members. This isn’t a policy that can be proven, it’s multiple conversations with multiple people from many countries that are all saying the same thing about us.

 

[btrudy]

It was the purple hair and coloured nails. More conservative countries (see Eastern Europe and the Middle East) and frankly, most of NATO think we look like fucking losers because of some of these bozos.

At the end of the day, are we writing the Canadian Forces Dress Instructions to appease foreigners, or are we trying to write something that works for Canadians?

There are plenty of things that we as a society allow or encourage or celebrate which many of our allies find distasteful. Too f'in bad. We're not doing it for them.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I'm about to go do BASRT with ST(P)... I'll let you know how it goes WRT shaving.

It seems to be hit or miss and some of it is unit based, and know of a few ships where the COs specifically ordered everyone to be clean shaven because of the FF requirement.

If people would at least be honest that they are ignoring the order, or actually just not have people with beards in positions to do FF (like duty watch) that would be one thing. Then again, we can't even get people to put in CF98s for people exposed to smoke during rapid response, so don't really get it.

Considering we have about half the amount of fires every year as the USN, who is much, much bigger, and that's getting worse each year not like we're doing a bang up job on fire prevention either. My favourites recently was a small fire that also turned into a small flood... while the ship was in the dry dock. We managed to get a flood on a ship not in the water.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

At the end of the day, are we writing the Canadian Forces Dress Instructions to appease foreigners, or are we trying to write something that works for Canadians?

I would say both, frankly.

The CAF is trying to be a credible military force to our citizens, our Allies, and in a deterrent role; our enemies.

We fail the mark in many regards due to our abysmal procurement of eqpt, lax physical fitness standards, and failure to recruit and retain enough people to fill the tasks asked of us.

Projecting a professional appearance in Dress and Grooming should be one of the easy wins, but alas here we are.

There are plenty of things that we as a society allow or encourage or celebrate which many of our allies find distasteful. Too f'in bad. We're not doing it for them.

That is a very naive stance to take. I would hope its one you keep for this forum and not one you take with you on Expeditionary Operations.

We are a small force that tends to rely on the good graces of others to provide everything from SLOC, Force Protection, and other key enablers when our folks are out the door. That support disappears when we thumb our nose at the HN because "we're Canadians, we do what we want...."

I count myself blessed that I love in a country that has so many freedoms and liberal attitudes. Keeps me and my Rainbow family members safe and protected.

I am also well educated in my many travels around the globe that we are an island in this, and we don't make friends by finger wagging.

If the HN Commander providing force protection to my troops expects to communicate with a certain calibre of soldier (be that in professionalism, fitness, or appearance)... "The CFDI says I can" will be a great epitaph to go on my headstone when things go sideways.

Never assume the Strategic impact of personal or tactical decisions.

 

[daftandbarmy]

True but not true. We’re in Latvia working in the same spaces as militaries that take fitness and deportment extremely seriously. We, quite frankly, do not generally out perform them to the point that we prove we can over come this. Poles, Spaniards, Italians, and others have commented to many of my friends that the look rediculous, that we look like bums, and in some cases won’t work with our members. This isn’t a policy that can be proven, it’s multiple conversations with multiple people from many countries that are all saying the same thing about us.

And yet, the recruits are not flooding in as predicted ...

Dispirit de corps​

What would appeal to the country’s young men and women? The answer, as laid down in the new CAF regulations, was that they “should reflect the changing norms in Canadian society. This will welcome a more diverse group of CAF members, which will benefit the CAF as diversity is a known force multiplier.”

Consider the new rule for hair: “Full or partial shaving of hair on the head is permitted. Colouring of hair is permitted. The wearing of wigs, locks, or hair extensions is permitted. Long hair is permitted but must be secured…in such a manner to prevent hair from falling in or covering the face when leaning forward.”

In other words, personnel can have any colour hair down to their shoulders when in uniform. In addition: “all styles of facial hair and sideburns are authorized. Facial hair may be braided/pony tail style and coloured.” At the same time, male and female “members may wear coloured nail polish, artificial nails, temporary lashes, and eyelash extensions.” In addition, men may wear skirts if they wish, so long as the hem falls below the knee.

If these new regulations worked to attract new and diverse recruits, they might be justified. Thus far, however, they have had no such effect. Recruitment continues to be slow while retirements increase. This is no surprise to those who have served (or somehow continue to serve).

Dispirit de corps - Legion Magazine

Given the lack of meaningful support, it’s easy to appreciate morale issues among the military’s rank and file

legionmagazine.com