CRCN Message on the Steward Occupation Town Hall (Steward trade elimination)

[Blackadder1916]

As far as backfill for steward jobs: NPF for messes, light cooking (breakfast), meal service for the wardroom and special functions, all are smart serve qualified for functions, casualty clearing team, canteen, cleaning officer cabins and wardroom.

Most of those jobs can either be eliminated (cooking, meal service), filled by another trade (NPF), or are also done by other members of the ships crew (smart serve for functions often done by other sailors, casualty clearing team can be anyone with the training, canteen is half voluntary from other trades most of the time, cleaning stations).

Casualty clearing was, in my experience (years and years past), the primary justification usually put forth as the "military" requirement for continuing to have stewards on Canadian warships. Yes, all the functions above listed could be handed off to other trades but the sense I get is that a lot of those hospitality service functions will either be eliminated or consolidated/centralized as ship designs change and traditions fade. If those functions are assumed by other trades, there will likely be the expectation that those positions (bodies) will also be reduced. Steward was perhaps the only trade that was not necessary in fighting a ship, save for the casualty clearing role during battle (sorta like the mythical regimental bandsmen). They were usually the only available source of manpower whose primary job was not necessary/performed during battle. And casualty handling is a manpower intensive function.

 

[dapaterson]

So, with 25% of steward positions outside the RCN, did RCN leadership check in with CMP and the RCAF (with about 10% of stewards each) before making this decision?

 

[Navy_Pete]

So, with 25% of steward positions outside the RCN, did RCN leadership check in with CMP and the RCAF (with about 10% of stewards each) before making this decision?

Or alternately, how meal service is going to work on the CPFs? People trying to carry plates up a deck at sea is a bad idea, and the martech is the scullery is already a disatisfier. I didn't think there was an excess of cooks either.

Someone needs to do the job, and I think while the concept of stewards as a 'batsman' type thing went by the wayside a long time ago, the meal serving etc part is a legitimate day job that someone needs to do, and having stewards took pressure off other trades to fill it. Plus planning the functions takes a lot of work and coordination, so all that outreach stuff ships do will now be a secondary duty for someone else?

Given the RCN track record, colour me skeptical this isn't someone's long term axe to grind coming to fruition. Re-jigging the MARTECH trade is going to take another 5-7 years at least, and now the same pool of people had this dumped in their laps to figure out. What a shit show.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Or alternately, how meal service is going to work on the CPFs? People trying to carry plates up a deck at sea is a bad idea, and the martech is the scullery is already a disatisfier. I didn't think there was an excess of cooks either.

Someone needs to do the job, and I think while the concept of stewards as a 'batsman' type thing went by the wayside a long time ago, the meal serving etc part is a legitimate day job that someone needs to do, and having stewards took pressure off other trades to fill it. Plus planning the functions takes a lot of work and coordination, so all that outreach stuff ships do will now be a secondary duty for someone else?

Given the RCN track record, colour me skeptical this isn't someone's long term axe to grind coming to fruition. Re-jigging the MARTECH trade is going to take another 5-7 years at least, and now the same pool of people had this dumped in their laps to figure out. What a shit show.

LMAO, they'll just get Subbies to do it, they may as well just give them more secondary duties.

 

[FSTO]

So, with 25% of steward positions outside the RCN, did RCN leadership check in with CMP and the RCAF (with about 10% of stewards each) before making this decision?

I'm guessing no?

edit to add - Just chatting with a Log Cdr here in Carling and he brought up the exact same point. He also didn't hear of this move until the email yesterday. Truth be told they were talking about getting rid of the steward trade when I joined in 89.

 

[dimsum]

So, with 25% of steward positions outside the RCN, did RCN leadership check in with CMP and the RCAF (with about 10% of stewards each) before making this decision?

I can't think of what Stewards do in RCAF bases aside from Mess Manager and Accommodations folks?

 

[FSTO]

I can't think of what Stewards do in RCAF bases aside from Mess Manager and Accommodations folks?

In the personnel transport aircraft silly.

 

[dapaterson]

I can't think of what Stewards do in RCAF bases aside from Mess Manager and Accommodations folks?

437 enters the conversation

Edit: In fact, only CFB Halifax has a larger number of hard 165 positions than 437 Sqn.

 

[dimsum]

437 enters the conversation

Edit: In fact, only CFB Halifax has a larger number of hard 165 positions than 437 Sqn.

Yeah I don't know how I forgot 437 and 412.

 

[Furniture]

Or alternately, how meal service is going to work on the CPFs? People trying to carry plates up a deck at sea is a bad idea, and the martech is the scullery is already a disatisfier. I didn't think there was an excess of cooks either.

Someone needs to do the job, and I think while the concept of stewards as a 'batsman' type thing went by the wayside a long time ago, the meal serving etc part is a legitimate day job that someone needs to do, and having stewards took pressure off other trades to fill it. Plus planning the functions takes a lot of work and coordination, so all that outreach stuff ships do will now be a secondary duty for someone else?

Given the RCN track record, colour me skeptical this isn't someone's long term axe to grind coming to fruition. Re-jigging the MARTECH trade is going to take another 5-7 years at least, and now the same pool of people had this dumped in their laps to figure out. What a shit show.

The Wardroom could be staffed by a cook, and a scullery hand. Alternatively, the Wardroom could mix with the C&POs for meal hours, and eat there. It's a small issue, not something worth retaining a trade over...

437 enters the conversation

Edit: In fact, only CFB Halifax has a larger number of hard 165 positions than 437 Sqn.

I'm pretty sure that if the RCAF cared about Stewards they wouldn't have given up the Air DEU ones a couple of decades ago. Much like with my occupation, they abandoned us, and now cry because they aren't getting the support they want. If you want a capability fight for it, otherwise you get no say in how the owner decides to use it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Alternatively, the Wardroom could mix with the C&POs for meal hours, and eat there. It's a small issue, not something worth retaining a trade over...

No thanks. They either serve themselves or they can use a mixture or cooks and scullery over the meal hours.

Putting food on a plate isn't rocket science.

 

[Remius]

Putting food on a plate isn't rocket science.

I’ve seen some pretty awful meal lines in the field where doing exactly that is an issue for some.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’ve seen some pretty awful meal lines in the field where doing exactly that is an issue for some.

Fair. To be clear, I am literally talking about putting food on a plate, not cooking lol

 

[Remius]

Fair. To be clear, I am literally talking about putting food on a plate, not cooking lol

So was I lol

 

[dapaterson]

Putting food on a plate isn't rocket science.

Are you really wearing a RCN DEU? That reads like someone who never met a NWO...

 

[Halifax Tar]

So was I lol

Lol Oh my!

Are you really wearing a RCN DEU? That reads like someone who never met a NWO...

With enough practice I have faith they can master the skill.

 

[Underway]

No thanks. They either serve themselves or they can use a mixture or cooks and scullery over the meal hours.

Putting food on a plate isn't rocket science.

They won't do self-serve. PA won't let that happen. Some nonsense about sanitation and health. However, there will likely be a cook or two stationed in the WR servery. With the new watch rotations, the cooks are the ones who usually have the worst hours. Adding a few extra billets there might be a good idea to see if they can get those running without killing the cooks.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Is a ship operating at full capability 24/7 or do they have a work day like 8-4 and go minimal manning?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Is a ship operating at full capability 24/7 or do they have a work day like 8-4 and go minimal manning?

Alongside, home port it's a day job with a duty watch manned 24/7.

At Sea, it operates very differently depending on Dept and trade. A mixture of watches and day work.

Alongside foreign port, generally the ships crew is on Sunday routine with a much bigger duty watch and FP component manned 24/7.

 

[Underway]

Is a ship operating at full capability 24/7 or do they have a work day like 8-4 and go minimal manning?

Depends on the threat situation and the weather (which can be a threat situation!) and of course the trade/position. I'll only speak to at sea.

Weather is bad, and everyone is seasick there will be a "pipe down" where if you are not on watch or essential pers go to your rack and try to not vomit. Minimum crewing levels.

When the threat situation is low the watch rotation will be minimized so that more people will be off watch at a time than on watch. Get some PT in, or relax a bit etc... I've seen the Ops room basically empty with people on call instead of just sitting at their station.

When the threat situation is high you go to what we call 1 in 2. (7hrs on , 7 off, 5 on , 5 off) Which basically is half the crew awake and at stations at a time. All the weapons and sensors are crewed and ready to fight. If we go to emergency or action stations the rest of the crew jumps too and goes to their assigned station. 1in 2 can only be done for relatively short stints (like a week) as it can get exhausting.

There are new watch rotations now like crazy 8's and 4Alpha which all have different awake and off watch times.

The non-Ops types like Naval Technical Officers, Dept leadership, or the Logistics Dept (all ranks), are called day workers and run a normal daily routine. Of course at sea you are often working late or on call, particularly the NTO's who can't just sleep through an engineering problem (unless the on-watch PO1 has it covered).