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Considering VR - full details

dolejarski

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Hello to all enthusiasts,

I have been in the reg force (air force) since Jan 06, completed BMQ and failed my QL3 comms research (morse code). After going through the review board I received a Compulsory Reassignment - forced to choose a new trade. Which means from Sept until now my career with the CF has stalled due to my personal file being in Kingston and it needs to be send over to Borden. My ultimate goal is to become a police officer, im not interested in MP, just local forces. Main question is - Should I VR now or complete a QL3 course - possibly RMS. Once Im posted to a unit and complete the application process with a police force, put in my VR then. How do units look at a situation such as this one ?, Which option would be best suited, VR now while awaiting training or after posted to a unit ?

If my intentions are not clear, please specify.
 
I know there will be guys saying:

The police force don't like quitters.
The army isn't to better just yourself.
You fail then quit...your a failure forever.

Its quite common on this board.With a whole bunch of ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
due to that person being 300km away behind a computer screen,and suddenly tough as ****(man that movie was hilarious).

Personally I would stay in get 3's qualified as it will look better on a resume.It will also give you some pocket money to attend a police foundations course,and give you time to sort out all your information pertaining to what you want to do.

Who knows you may enjoy another trade,and realise MP may be the way to go.But as my father said to me when I was enrolling and having second thoughts:"It's only 3 years,time flies."And heck he was right.

I give it 2 more post before someone jumps all over you.

Good luck,and remember the army IS NOT FOR EVERYONE!
Nothing to be ashamed about.
 
EX_RCAC_011 said:
Good luck,and remember the army IS NOT FOR EVERYONE!
Nothing to be ashamed about.

Correct. BUT......to be true to yourself, you should make the decision when you are not down in the dumps. Right now you sound pretty frustrated, and that is the wrong frame of mind to make major decisions.

Take the advice...finish your 3's...then see what you want to do. I have found that stuff I swore I would not like, has liked me very much..

luck
 
Thanks for the input fellos,

I guess I should be more detailed, I graduated from a 2 yr law / security studies, have lots of credentials, courses and certificates that are geared towards policing. Yes, you are correct. I'm currently frustrated because of the stall and my state of mind might be slightly impaired due to current environment. Needless to say my wife lives an hr away and has an contract with her employer until this sept, I feel that our relationship/marriage is suffering because of physical presence and support. Aside from that, once i finish my QL3 and get posted to a unit not in my favour - that will seriously put me at a distance from my family.

PS - I live in the Toronto area

How does the posting situation work ? - once i successfully complete my QL3 and choose my preference unit(s), do they just place me in a unit where is short staffed or do i really have a say in it ?
 
Personally I would suggest going MP.However you seem dead against it.Reasons?
As for postings the army will post you where you are needed with your preferences in mind.
When I graduated my three's training I could choose 2 postings,Petawawa or Gagetown.And to get to Gagetown you had to write up memo's why,due to only being non qualified troopers.So we all got posted to Petawawa.

It really depends on the trade you choose for your postings.I cannot hazard(or will not)on what trade would give you a better chance to get T.O as a posting.

However something else to keep in mind is the fact that September is only 6 months from now.Once you get on a course and finish it,you could be within a month or two of the time when your wife could come join you.
Petawawa is only 5 hrs from Toronto IIRC.

Don't make harsh decisions.I have in the past and have payed for it later.After a horrible period I put in an occupational transfer.Not to get a career I was interested in,but to get out of my current situation.In response the job I was placed in was a crappy job, due to the highers expectation of me leaving soon.I'm finally getting back to where I was,so believe me As GAP said try not to make harsh decisions.

This is really something you need to discuss with your wife.Also maybe ask the BPSO what trade would better guarantee you a posting to Toronto or surrounding area's.Someone here from the area may be better suited to answer that.
 
Thanks again, I will definitely have to discuss it more with the wife.

By the way - At the recruiting center when I joined and went through the interview with a captain, he was asking me questions regarding my previous employment, credit status and other information. Does anyone know what happens with that paper that he writes all my answers on ? Does it follow you throughout your military career ? - just a thought that has been on my mind.
 
Just a quick comment on when you should decided to VR.  Currently you are employed and being paid for your job.  Wouldn't it make sense for you and your family for you to keep your income until you apply and actually get accepted to a civilian police service?

I understand and appreciate that the CF isn't for everyone, but I've always found it odd that people would release from a good job to pursue something that isn't in hand if you will. 

Could you get posted.....sure, but their is no guarantee that you're going to get the other job.  As for whether finishing a 3's course will look good on a resume, I seriously doubt it.  They are looking for specific candidates who will fit a mold.  There are many more things that are important then finishing a course.  That said, finishing a course does show dedication, but you're already taking the hit on that by not finishing an agreed to three year contract.  It's all how you sell yourself once you get to the interview phase (if you get there).

As for comments written about you - you have the right to see any and everything written on you, you just have to fill out a freedom of information request. 

Good luck with whatever you decide. 
 
I think I may be able to help provide you with a different angle on your situation.

I'm roughly the same age as you, started BMQ at the same time, on the same base, and am married.

I spend most of last year in Borden and Meaford many hours away from Ottawa and my wife... being 6 hours away is fine except that doesn't account for traffic on the friday afternoon when I headed back to Ottawa. Sometimes I'd not get home until pushing 1 am and I spent many weeks being exhausted from a lack of recovery time. As a result I was terribly unhappy and constantly on the ragged edge of my breaking point. I missed her an unbelievable amount, and I lost a lot of motivation.

During basic I excelled, by all accounts I was an excellent soldier. I headed off to SQ with no break to go back and visit my wife... I excelled until the final two weeks of the course and then I started running on empty. My section commander told me I was smart, capable and that he would be proud to serve alongside me, over in the Sandbox. I was the only "student" to conduct section attacks, and I was the go to guy when the section commander and 2 i/c weren't around.

By the start of my DP1 I had lost nearly 40lbs... I'm 6'4" and I was less than 170lbs. And I was eating like a horse.

There was no break of even a couple minutes between my SQ and DP1... we graduated SQ to the yelling of our DP1 instructors.... at one point there was 16 directing staff on the floor at once... I couldn't see and end to it. The light at the end of the tunnel wasn't there.

I'd been writing memos since Basic to change trades to MP or Engineer or Vehicle tech... constantly being told that I would have to wait until my next level of training. I thought "YES! DP1... now's my chance!!" I wrote another memo.

I was told that if I wanted occupational transfer then I would have to finish my training and wait until I hit Battalion. I was starting to see a pattern here.
Word from CFRG came down a couple days later that if you finished a certain level of DP1 training then you were locked into your trade and you were ineligible for transfer or release. My hopes of doing something else other than infantry were dashed and I got down to the business of being an infanteer.

Now throughout the last 6 months I had been able to see my wife only a handful of single-day weekends. She was upset, stressed out and having trouble coping. She started bleeding constantly... and she went to the doctor to be told that she had the preliminary markers of uterine cancer. As soon as I found that out I wrote another memo. I requested a Release to be with her and to ensure that I could be with her in the event the final diagnosis was bad. The fact that it got me out of the infantry was a bonus that was a distant second place. And it didn't get me into a different trade.

I sat on Holding Platoon for 3 1/2 months... but I eventually got out. My relationship was hurting from 9 months of absence, my wife was scared about maybe having cancer, and I had been learning that the military bureaucracy was a behemoth that can complicate even the smallest and simplest of matters. While in Holding, I tried transferring to a regular combat engineer unit, which was a failure, even though it was a trade suffering from a manpower shortfall. I tried releasing to the primary reserve... but somehow no one in my CoC had any clue how to do that, or it wasn't worth the time. And I ended up being released with a folder of good course reports and a spot on the Supplementary Reserve. I've since been trying to get back in, in a Primary Reserve capacity, because I'm not allowed to re-apply to the reg force until march 9... I figured I'd be into the reserves inside of 6 months... but as usual the bureaucracy is doing it's thing, just like it does to everybody.

My wife is doing better, but if we're going to have kids we have to do it soon. I tried getting civilian police jobs and was told in no uncertain terms that because I don't speak french, am not a visible minority, or a woman,  that I'm SOL. And believe me, I have every other qualification. Including my Police Foundations college diploma.

I'm now waiting on the good graces of my VFS which should have only taken a week... but is now stretching into month 4...

What does all this mean to you? Possibly nothing, but it might be what you end up doing if you decide to chuck your military career. I wasn't given an opportunity to choose another trade, even after dozens of memos, I wasn't able to get a civilian police job despite being a smart individual... I wasn't able to get back to my wife until after 3 months after my release from training.. And I'm having a hell of a time getting BACK in....

EX-RCAC_011 is giving you good advice when he tells you to step back and breath and think. You have an opportunity here, don't throw it away until you've looked at all the angles and have talked it over with your wife.

 
Dog said:
I'd been writing memos since Basic to change trades to MP or Engineer or Vehicle tech... constantly being told that I would have to wait until my next level of training. I thought "YES! DP1... now's my chance!!" I wrote another memo.

I was told that if I wanted occupational transfer then I would have to finish my training and wait until I hit Battalion. I was starting to see a pattern here.
Just a quick note on this.I had students come to myself and ask about a O.T during DP1 Armd.As instructors we were told that students can O.T 60 days prior to the end of the course.Our course is 62 days long,so therefore the student must do it during those first two days.

We have been noticing a pile of recruits coming to us believing they can O.T during course at anytime.As they have been told by BMQ/SQ staff.This is not true.And "Once you get to battalion"is also false.You have to be completed 3 years to apply under LOTP (land occupational transfer program).



 
EX-RCAC_011,

Not that this particularly applies to this specific case, but you never know who may be reading....

I had been trying for months before the beginning of my DP1 to get a different trade... and was repeatedly denied. I handed a memo to my DP1 staff withing the first few minutes of learning their name but was stonewalled. So what the policy is and what the DS plan on doing with a request isn't necessarily the same thing. I'm not knocking you, but I know that there were about a dozen students on my DP1 who applied for O.T. within the first day, and all of them were denied, even though the policy states they were supposed to be eligible. Two students were even denied VR, and were very close to losing it, saying that they would shoot their way off of the base the next time they were handed live ammo... obviously it didn't happen, but had they had access to ammo shortly after that, I have no doubts that they'd have done something, even if it had been a Gomer Pyle in the bathroom. There was a definitely bitter feeling of distrust of the CoC amongst a few of the troops who had been denied O.T.'s.... and some of them have since left the military all together..... but that's an issue for the Recruiting and Retention threads.

Myself? I don't have any bitter feelings, I just want to get back in.... but I could understand the guys who were upset.
 
Reasons why MP is not that appealing to me is because of the simple fact that I was raised in a family oriented atmosphere. The military experience made me realize that my family is very important to me and its a priority on my list. Yes I have realized that after I joined.

Lets say Im QL3 qualified and successfully complete the application process with a local police force and receive an offer letter. I would be really disappointed knowing that I can not commence in that direction.

Instead of going through the VR process, would it be a wise decision to transfer over to the reserves ?
 
I had a very good friend go to the Calgary police force.This guy was keen,fit and overall an excellent soldier.He had 6 years in at the time and realised he wanted to do something different.He informed the CoC about his testing,and later acceptance.They called with an offer to begin training in 3 months,he said yes and put in his release.

Instead of the army treating this one guy well,who had done the same in return over his years of service...they denied him.Guys were getting out in 8 weeks to work on daddy's payroll,however he was getting messed around.
*retention..this guy was going to join the reserve force.Before they messed him around so much.

A certain someone called a member of Parliament.He was out on time.

There are legal ways to get out quicker,a clerk would be the person to talk to rather than myself.

As for being a MP and not having a family life,could a MP possibly explain what day to day life is usually like at a base?Maybe you are expecting the worst.
 
WOLVERINE_X said:
Instead of going through the VR process, would it be a wise decision to transfer over to the reserves ?

At the very least it keeps your doors open for the future.
 
I realize this is a very old thred, but I would like to know how his process turned out.
I am in a similar situation. I am a bit farther ahead than wolverine, being that I am QL3 qual, and my original TOS is close to over. However I did sign a 3 year ext.
Also does anyone have any advice about weather or not I should inform my CoC that I have applied to police forces.
seeing as it is not a sure thing I will get hired, I am worried that I may be kept out of further training opportunities if they know I may VR.
 
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