CMA accreditation??

[BorderMedic]

Hi all, just an interesting update I got from the recruiters today, my medical came back all good, so that's cool. Background check is still out I guess. But that doesn't really matter now from what I hear, because the recruiter I talked to today just informed me that as of May 7th, 2010 ALL Ontario colleges except for two have lost their CMA accreditation and are no longer being considered for the NCM-SEP MedTech program?? Just wondering if anybody knows anything about this?

I was just blindsided by this and really just can't believe it. My start date is July 5th....... Not looking to good.

 

[mariomike]

the recruiter I talked to today just informed me that as of May 7th, 2010 ALL Ontario colleges except for two have lost their CMA accreditation

CMA Paramedicine:
http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON
All except two have lost their accreditation??

"Paramedic Education and Training Programs in Ontario":
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ehs/edu/schools.html
All except two have lost their accreditation???

Although retired, I still keep up with the job. That happened a month ago? If true, that would be catastrophic news for the CMA to shut down all but two of the colleges in Ontario. I think I would have heard about it.

If I were you, I would verify what s/he told you directly with the CMA:
http://www.cma.ca/contactus


 

 

[BorderMedic]

I agree with everything you are saying it just doesn't add up, and I drove straight home and checked the CMA website, the college I am accepted to is showing they are accrdited until May 2011, and there current status shows registered.

I also called the college and they said they have no clue as well, I informed them what the recruiter told me, and they said they were going to look into it and have an answer by Monday.

The recruiter mentioned one of the two schools still accredited was Durham, which is also a diploma program, he also mentioned that a bunch of the other schools were working with the CMA to correct the problem.

I really just don't get it, I know the recruiter is just reading me an email he received from higher up somewhere and it has nothing to do with him, but if this really went down a month ago, I would think a lot of people would be mentioning it, I work with medics every weekend and have heard nothing.

 

[PMedMoe]

Maybe he meant that the CF will only accept a diploma from the two schools as opposed all of them having lost their CMA accreditation.  ???

 

[BorderMedic]

Could be, but I had him read me the email at least three times that he received, and from memory it just said that those schools had lost their CMA accreditation and that they were working with them to get it back.

Really something is just not adding up, the CMA site shows tons of schools as being still registered, and I have contacted them directly via email as well. Hopefully with the CMA contacted and the school looking into it as well someone will be able to tell me WTF is going on.

I am really getting discouraged with all this,

 

[mariomike]

Could be, but I had him read me the email at least three times that he received, and from memory it just said that those schools had lost their CMA accreditation and that they were working with them to get it back.

I made a couple of phone calls this A.M. to people who would know. Nobody in the GTA lost accreditation.

 

[BorderMedic]

I made a couple of phone calls this A.M. to people who would know. Nobody in the GTA lost accreditation.

Ya like I said, something doesn't seem right, I contacted the school I am supposed to be attending and they have not heard anything about it either, they actually were send me my orientation info an hour after the recruiter told me what had changed. I really just don't know anymore, what I do know is that this system seems to be as organized as well as every other system I have had to deal with. Which isn't exactly encouraging at all.

 

[cn]

Yes, I got the same call telling me I was taken off the merit list because the school I got into for Med Tech-SEP (CTS, Barrie) was no longer accepted by the CF as one of the colleges you can go to for the PCP course. 

I was informed by the CO at the Mississauga RC that only Cambrian and Durham are the two colleges SEP applicants are approved to go to through that entry plan.  They said the change was made last month but the RC was not made aware of it until last week when they called me.   

And I called both of those schools and they are both full (with waiting lists also full) for this year.  So it seems after waiting to expect a job offer, I am now just waiting.  An extremely disappointing and frustrating situation. 

 

[mariomike]

The good news seems to be that the colleges remain accredited. The bad news is that SEP is only availble for two.
I wonder what people will do who are not enrolled in either of those colleges? Take the program on their own time and expense, and apply to the CF as Med Techs after they graduate. Or, drop out of the program, and apply for another job in the CF?

 

[cn]

The good news seems to be that the colleges remain accredited. The bad news is that SEP is only available for two.
I wonder what people will do who are not enrolled in either of those colleges? Take the program on their own time and expense, and apply to the CF as Med Techs after they graduate. Or, drop out of the program, and apply for another job in the CF?

That is an option, but unfortunately for myself I am not in a position financially to be able to do this.  I've been weighing my options since I got that call and am still undecided on picking a new trade, waiting until (if) an unskilled spot opens up, wait until Sept. 2011 to try and get into those two still approved, or possibly taking a student loan to go to school (which seems unlikely for my present situation)?

Has this happened before?  Have the policies changed like this for other trades/colleges?  I'm just curious as to why this decision was made, why these 2 schools are the only ones now approved for SEP and not the other still accredited PCP courses at other schools (that were fine up until last month)? 

 

[mariomike]

That is an option, but unfortunately for myself I am not in a position financially to be able to do this.  I've been weighing my options since I got that call and am still undecided on picking a new trade, waiting until (if) an unskilled spot opens up, wait until Sept. 2011 to try and get into those two still approved, or possibly taking a student loan to go to school (which seems unlikely for my present situation)?

Has this happened before?  Have the policies changed like this for other trades/colleges?  I'm just curious as to why this decision was made, why these 2 schools are the only ones now approved for SEP and not the other still accredited PCP courses at other schools (that were fine up until last month)?

You could wait another year and try for Cambrian or Durham. But, what are the odds of being accepted? I called the Dean of Paramedicine at Humber College in Toronto only five weeks ago and she told me that every year she has 2,500 applicants for 70 positions.
How many will be applying for how many SEP positions available in Ontario in 2011? That is anyone's guess.
If you take it on your own time and expense, you have the option of applying to both the CF, or a municipality. But, I can tell you that now it is degrees, not diplomas, they ( Metro ) are looking for. In recent years, more than half ( and rapidly increasing ) of the new recruits at T-EMS come with degrees in paramedicine. Honours B. Sc.:
http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~jtprogs/paramedicine.html

 

[Armymedic]

Why not just get into the Reg F and let them pay for your education?

 

[mariomike]

Why not just get into the Reg F and let them pay for your education?

There is an educational difference between SEP and Direct Entry.

SEP at Durham College or Cambrian College is a diploma ( as are all Paramedic education programs in Ontario ):
http://www.cambriancollege.ca/Programs/Programs/201009PARA.HTM
https://myplace.durhamcollege.ca/durham/program.do?from=subject&programID=1312

Justice Institute is a certificate:
http://learning.jibc.ca/TPOnline/TPOnline.dll/Public%20Program/PROGRAMNO=PROG2003091915194505149505

With the phone calls that went out to SEP applicants yesterday, SEP may no longer be possible for many. They may now decide to apply for Direct Entry instead.

 

[BorderMedic]

Why not just get into the Reg F and let them pay for your education?

Aside from the fact that yes it is only a certificate from the Reg force, there was only one spot for NCM Med-Tech as of April first, and there WERE 28 for NCM-SEP as of April first.

And yes we have acceptance so we could just go on our on, except I have not acquired the funding to do so myself since that is what the NCM-SEP program was for, and my present timeline does not allow for additional funding to be found at this point. The recruiter did say that the CMA and the armed forces was working with them to get their accreditation back so depending on that timeline this still may be a plausable option. Otherwise I'm thinking trade change, which pretty much sickens me. ( you would have to understand how much being a medic means to me...) OR I may just go state side again, and pick up my EMT-P which gives me ALS anyway. I'm getting to the point where I would rather dig my old vest out of the closet and get half the pay for twice the danger then deal with this crap.

I realize that the CF or any other organization owes me nothing, but this is the second time I have put months planning and months of doing everything I was told getting this shot, this exam, go here, go there. Just to have it ripped away when I am so close. It left a bad taste in my mouth the first time, it is not getting any better.

 

[Armymedic]

Aside from the fact that yes it is only a certificate from the Reg force, there was only one spot for NCM Med-Tech as of April first, and there WERE 28 for NCM-SEP as of April first.

Ah, seen. Did not know that entry was so limited.

But as for the other issue, certified vs diploma, in my personal view (who did his training at Humber before we got either) that the fact of having a steady pay check, with the ability to upgrade your education to meet civilian employment requirements makes sense to me.

It is not much different than what is happening in the PA world as well.

Border, all I can do is wish you the best of luck.

 

[mariomike]

OR I may just go state side again, and pick up my EMT-P which gives me ALS anyway. I'm getting to the point where I would rather dig my old vest out of the closet and get half the pay for twice the danger then deal with this crap.

Everyone is hired as a PCP. When there is an internal vacancy for ACP, it is filled by PCP's through the "Senior Qualified Process". The internal "Relative Ability Process" only applies to Critical Care Transport Paramedics" CCTU. Seniority only governs promotion from ACP to CCTU when qualifications, experience, education and ability to perform the work are equal.
 

the fact of having a steady pay check,

That is the best advice. The CF ( any trade ) offers good pay, benefits and a pension. And other things that are important to be happy.

 

[Civvymedic]

  I've spent the weekend trying to affirm my assumptions on this matter before I comment.

  I have spoken to several Ontario College faculty members and others who would know, I also submitted my application for semiskilled Med-Tech a couple of years ago.

  Here's the scoop: Yes Cambrian and Durham are CMA accredited. It's not a matter of the other Ontario colleges losing there CMA accreditation for PCP it's that they never were CMA accredited. Why? because it's not worth it to them. Ontario colleges are overwhelmed with applications and it's not really worth the time and expense to pursue the accreditation, it does nothing for them really. If a PCP from an Ontario college wants to go work in another Province they just apply for equivalency, may write an exam and there is no difference from an applicant of a CMA approved Ontario College. I have a College faculty member next to me now in the ER.

As an example I went to Centennial College for PCP. (1 year Diploma) now it's 2. Not CMA accredited but I went to work in Nova Scotia with no issues and it was also approved by the CF through a PLAR for both SAR and MED-Tech.

  To use the Centennial example, that course is a 2 year Diploma with extensive clinical in the Toronto area and it's credits are fully transferable with the University of Toronto for a 4 year degree in Paramedicine. Either 2 years at Centennial then 2 at U of T or 1 year Centennial  year U of T x 2 etc. They could easily exceed the CMA standards but haven't applied for that accreditation. Being a federal agency I can see the Military needing the CMA accreditation but it isn't essential.

 

 

[mariomike]

I was wondering how CMA could suddenly pull the plug on a place like Humber College. It's the grand-daddy of them all.
(It is just as much accredited as either Cambrian or Durham Colleges, see end of post ):
"This new program, which started in September 1972 at Humber College with a class of 25 students, provided 1,400 hours of theoretical, practical, clinical and field training. The college paramedicine program is now typically two years long, and still provides the standard for entry-level training into the field.":

Humber College became mandatory for those who joined after 1 Aug. 1975.
Those of us who hired on the department prior to that, were sent to our academy downtown at Bay and Belmont St. They sent me to Humber College in 1981. I was on the second last class of Metro "grandfathers" ever sent there. Some of the guys failed, but nobody ever got fired ( although there were exceptions ). I remember taking a final exam with one of our "higher ups"  sitting beside me. He threw his pen across the room in disgust. "What the F#$% do they think we are, a bunch of F$#@ing doctors!" hahaha
We really relaxed and had a good time there. It was the first, last and only time we got a real break from Operations, so we made the most of it. They didn't insist that we wear our uniforms, but we had to keep them in our cars. Some classes were called out, but ours never was.
I remember a professor there who made us sit cross-legged on the floor, face to face with another guy ( it was all men back then ), hold both hands, look into each others eyes for what seemed to be an eternity and not say a word! hahaha They called it "sensitivity training". Gosh it was funny.

CMA shows Humber and Algonquin Colleges as accredited. Unclear why they are not approved for SEP:
Humber College: "Status: 6-Year Accreditation. Expiry date: 2013/02/28"
http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON
Apparently, "6-year" is CMA's top rating for Paramedic colleges.
Just a guess, but perhaps the CF would prefer not to enter into too many SEP agreements with other equally accredited colleges, such as Algonquin or Humber? Perhaps Durham and Cambrian are enough to meet their recruitment needs, at this time? 

CMA "Important Notices": "Advertising regarding accreditation":
http://www.cma.ca/important%20notices

"General information on the CMA accreditation process":
http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/Accreditation/pdf/general_info_process.pdf
http://www.cma.ca/accreditationprocess

 

[BorderMedic]

that the fact of having a steady pay check, with the ability to upgrade your education to meet civilian employment requirements makes sense to me.

With this I could not agree more, I want to be a medic, more so a medic in the armed forces. And would love the opportunity to work towards my PA, and that is still my main goal, I cannot think of anything better than steady pay, a good pension, and doing what I love to do, for my country at that.

I'm just not exactly sure how to go about that at the moment.........

The reality of getting into one of those two colleges for next year pretty slim. I may have a better chance of CTS getting their accreditation, or the CF taking me straight in as a medic. or finishing state side since I do live in a border town, and already hold my EMT-B. 

As for CTS getting their accreditation the CMA website shows them as registered.
http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON
So maybe they are on their way to being accredited, I will be waiting for their reply tomorrow, as they were informed of this problem on Friday as well. And they assured me "they were accredited and were going to look in it" I'm not holding my breathe on this one.

And of course there is always a trade change, they are looking for some sort of electronics trade, not sure of the trade name just know it was an NCM-SEP program and you had to be accepted into a Electronics Technologist program. This would be far more plausible to get into, I currently work as a controls technician. And if medic is completely unavailable to me, then for the chance to have gainful guaranteed employment I would do it.

Border, all I can do is wish you the best of luck.

Thanks, seems like I don't have much of that.

 

[cn]

With this I could not agree more, I want to be a medic, more so a medic in the armed forces. And would love the opportunity to work towards my PA, and that is still my main goal, I cannot think of anything better than steady pay, a good pension, and doing what I love to do, for my country at that.

I'm just not exactly sure how to go about that at the moment.........

The reality of getting into one of those two colleges for next year pretty slim. I may have a better chance of CTS getting their accreditation, or the CF taking me straight in as a medic. or finishing state side since I do live in a border town, and already hold my EMT-B. 

As for CTS getting their accreditation the CMA website shows them as registered.
http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON
So maybe they are on their way to being accredited, I will be waiting for their reply tomorrow, as they were informed of this problem on Friday as well. And they assured me "they were accredited and were going to look in it" I'm not holding my breathe on this one.

And of course there is always a trade change, they are looking for some sort of electronics trade, not sure of the trade name just know it was an NCM-SEP program and you had to be accepted into a Electronics Technologist program. This would be far more plausible to get into, I currently work as a controls technician. And if medic is completely unavailable to me, then for the chance to have gainful guaranteed employment I would do it.


Thanks, seems like I don't have much of that.

I know for a fact that CTS is is CMA registered.  However the only reason you cannot go there for the SEP is simply because it was recently taken off the CF's list of approved colleges (all but Durham and Cambrian).  I spoke to the PCP program coordinator during my selection interview into the college and he assured me that they were CMA accredited. 

I do hope they change their minds on this (because I bent-over-backwards to get in to CTS just to do the SEP) but you are right that the time line on this may not be something to hold your breath for. 

I'm in the same position as you BM, with the same career goals so we both have lots of thinking to do... It seems you're having as difficult a time as me, so I know where you're coming from.. Good luck with everything, hopefully it all works out for both of us.