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George Wallace said:
In Capital City! Yeah!
Capital City, my home sweet, yeah!
Capital City, that happy-tal city,
It's Capital City,
My home sweet swingin' home!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evm-O_J6uOM
City-state provinces in Canada? Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver
- Thread starter George Wallace
- Start date
In Capital City! Yeah!
Capital City, my home sweet, yeah!
Capital City, that happy-tal city,
It's Capital City,
My home sweet swingin' home!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evm-O_J6uOM
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
MCG said:
That was the Federal seat of government. [
On the Federal side though, there is a movement of Francophones who want Ottawa, as the National Capital to become "officially" Bilingual, not that it is not already more or less so; but no mention of Gatineau becoming officially Bilingual as well. Both, after all, are the National Capital Region, that has been proposed by some to become an entity in itself.
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Funny that ...George Wallace said:
George Wallace said:That was the Federal seat of government. [
Not Federal. National. The Province of Canada (with it's original capital at Kingston) was a full amalgamation of Lower Canada and Upper Canada -- there was only the one legislature, so there was no federal system.
This unified system was rejected within 25 years and Confederation intentionally went with a very different federal system with many powers devolved to provincial legislatures. Either system (unified and federal) can work fine, and in a country the size of Canada, I think we will always need some type of a federal system.
That's not to say that we are locked in forever to our current 10 provinces -- but if the GTA and Rest of Ontario want to partition, it won't happen without strong consensus that it's the right thing to do -- and in our constitution such consensus is hard to achieve. Honestly, I could see Maritime Union (amalgamating PEI, NB and NS) as a more compelling economic case, and that simply won't happen as it would be a threat to PEI retaining it's constitutional overrepresentation in the House, the Senate, and the First Minister's Conferences.
On a side note, it's interesting to me that the UK has, over the last 100 years, also moved away from what was once the strongest unified national legislature in the world to a semi-federal system (with legislatures for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland).
- Reaction score
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Ostrozac said:
"In the 1970s, Paul Godfrey presented to the Royal Commission on Metropolitan Toronto, as chairman of Metropolitan Toronto, arguments that the region should have the capability to set policy as does a provincial government."
Michael Gravelle, the Minister of Northern Development and Mines, said "I look at it from the perspective of would this be good for Northern Ontario . . . and I don‘t think it would be.”
http://www.liquisearch.com/proposal_for_the_province_of_toronto/history
"Political observers say the change is unlikely to happen, given it would require the approval of Parliament and seven of the provinces, with at least 50 per cent of the population."
Toronto Star March 16, 2010
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 210
Ostrozac said:
Since PEI can enjoy the benefits of being a province, why not Vancouver Island? There is a growing Provincial Independence movement here on the Left Coast that make *some* compelling arguments. We already quadruple or quintuple the population of PEI and have a more diverse economy as well...
Our provincial animal will be the Hipster and our provincial flower - obviously marijuana.
Vive The province of Vancouver Island!
- Reaction score
- 23,896
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What is the bag limit for Hipsters?
- Reaction score
- 1,420
- Points
- 1,260
Removed my reply to this post in the 2016 US Election thread, because I think it belongs here instead,
It seems to surprise citizens of the rest of Canada that Toronto does not think like them, and does not wish to be ruled by them.
See, I can do that to.
GTA secede? Where's the door?
Ottawa and the province will never return what they've taken away. The reason they haven't is obvious: There's just no political gain to be made by doing right by Toronto. For a political party trying to get elected, it's far easier and cheaper to sway a few hundred voters in a rural riding than to convince several thousand in the GTA.
The GTA is the favourite whipping boy of all federal and provincial political parties.
Until the City of Toronto Act was passed in 2006, the City had to go to Queen's Park for permission for something as minor as a speed bump. We can't get decent transit because our taxes are being spent on paving roads in the Middle of Nowhere, Ontario.
"In my book Urban Nation (2008), I wrote that Canada's cities were the orphans of Confederation, creatures of the provinces locked in constitutional arrangements that are almost a century and a half out of date. Our large urban regions are now the economic, social, and cultural engines of the country. They compete with other large urban regions around the world to create prosperity and well-being.
In Canada, these regions create the wealth that gets shared with the rest of the country through our redistribution and transfer arrangements. It is in our cities that the capital pools are assembled to take the oil, gas, and minerals out of the ground, where the factories and laboratories are built, and where much of our modern industries of information and design are based.
But our cities are not in control of their own destiny. Like Blanche Dubois in A Streetcar Named Desire, they are very much reliant on the kindness of strangers. They have few residual powers and limited revenue tools, being overly reliant on property taxes and barred from levying income or sales taxes, the big revenue generators. They are closely controlled by provincial governments and generally ignored by Ottawa. Their role in Confederation is to send money and keep quiet.
And they are under-represented in our federal and provincial parliaments. At the federal level, the average rural riding has 75,000 residents, the average urban riding 120,000."
That is the reason I do not follow party politics.
Read this on Milnet.ca , "Poor, rural and small town Canada gets paid by urban Canada, simple as that."
The GTA can always dream of the independence enjoyed by Prince Edward Island, but I doubt it will become a reality any time soon.
Unfortunately,
"Political observers say the change is unlikely to happen, given it would require the approval of Parliament and seven of the provinces, with at least 50 per cent of the population."
Toronto Star March 16, 2010
"In the 1970s, Paul Godfrey presented to the Royal Commission on Metropolitan Toronto, as chairman of Metropolitan Toronto, arguments that the region should have the capability to set policy as does a provincial government."
Michael Gravelle, the Minister of Northern Development and Mines, said "I look at it from the perspective of would this be good for Northern Ontario . . . and I don‘t think it would be.”
http://www.liquisearch.com/proposal_for_the_province_of_toronto/history
If they hate Toronto so much, they sure didn't mind driving in from God knows where to apply for jobs on our emergency services, after Queen's Park forced Toronto to lift it's residency requirement. The province said it discriminated against out of town applicants.
I mean applicants with many years of out of town experience who were willing to leave small town Ontario to pursue their "dream" - as they put it - to come work for our department.
Another example was that the province only funded our department for Toronto's residential population. Not its business day and visitor population.
So, 50 per cent of our funding had to come from our municipal tax base.
One-third of Canada s population is located within a 160 km radius of Toronto.
One-half of the population of the United States is within a 1 days drive of Toronto.
Toronto is Canada s #1 tourist destination with 21 million visitors in 1999.
48% of Toronto s population are immigrants.
Toronto is Canada's gateway to the international marketplace with accessibility via highways, air, rail and urban transit.
http://www.cpha.ca/uploads/confs/2003-ctph/phct_bonnie_henry.pdf
As a result, there were always more people coming in from out of town, out of province, out of country, requiring our services than the department was funded for by the province.
Loachman said:
It seems to surprise citizens of the rest of Canada that Toronto does not think like them, and does not wish to be ruled by them.
See, I can do that to.
GTA secede? Where's the door?
Ottawa and the province will never return what they've taken away. The reason they haven't is obvious: There's just no political gain to be made by doing right by Toronto. For a political party trying to get elected, it's far easier and cheaper to sway a few hundred voters in a rural riding than to convince several thousand in the GTA.
The GTA is the favourite whipping boy of all federal and provincial political parties.
Until the City of Toronto Act was passed in 2006, the City had to go to Queen's Park for permission for something as minor as a speed bump. We can't get decent transit because our taxes are being spent on paving roads in the Middle of Nowhere, Ontario.
"In my book Urban Nation (2008), I wrote that Canada's cities were the orphans of Confederation, creatures of the provinces locked in constitutional arrangements that are almost a century and a half out of date. Our large urban regions are now the economic, social, and cultural engines of the country. They compete with other large urban regions around the world to create prosperity and well-being.
In Canada, these regions create the wealth that gets shared with the rest of the country through our redistribution and transfer arrangements. It is in our cities that the capital pools are assembled to take the oil, gas, and minerals out of the ground, where the factories and laboratories are built, and where much of our modern industries of information and design are based.
But our cities are not in control of their own destiny. Like Blanche Dubois in A Streetcar Named Desire, they are very much reliant on the kindness of strangers. They have few residual powers and limited revenue tools, being overly reliant on property taxes and barred from levying income or sales taxes, the big revenue generators. They are closely controlled by provincial governments and generally ignored by Ottawa. Their role in Confederation is to send money and keep quiet.
And they are under-represented in our federal and provincial parliaments. At the federal level, the average rural riding has 75,000 residents, the average urban riding 120,000."
That is the reason I do not follow party politics.
Read this on Milnet.ca , "Poor, rural and small town Canada gets paid by urban Canada, simple as that."
The GTA can always dream of the independence enjoyed by Prince Edward Island, but I doubt it will become a reality any time soon.
Unfortunately,
"Political observers say the change is unlikely to happen, given it would require the approval of Parliament and seven of the provinces, with at least 50 per cent of the population."
Toronto Star March 16, 2010
"In the 1970s, Paul Godfrey presented to the Royal Commission on Metropolitan Toronto, as chairman of Metropolitan Toronto, arguments that the region should have the capability to set policy as does a provincial government."
Michael Gravelle, the Minister of Northern Development and Mines, said "I look at it from the perspective of would this be good for Northern Ontario . . . and I don‘t think it would be.”
http://www.liquisearch.com/proposal_for_the_province_of_toronto/history
If they hate Toronto so much, they sure didn't mind driving in from God knows where to apply for jobs on our emergency services, after Queen's Park forced Toronto to lift it's residency requirement. The province said it discriminated against out of town applicants.
I mean applicants with many years of out of town experience who were willing to leave small town Ontario to pursue their "dream" - as they put it - to come work for our department.
Another example was that the province only funded our department for Toronto's residential population. Not its business day and visitor population.
So, 50 per cent of our funding had to come from our municipal tax base.
One-third of Canada s population is located within a 160 km radius of Toronto.
One-half of the population of the United States is within a 1 days drive of Toronto.
Toronto is Canada s #1 tourist destination with 21 million visitors in 1999.
48% of Toronto s population are immigrants.
Toronto is Canada's gateway to the international marketplace with accessibility via highways, air, rail and urban transit.
http://www.cpha.ca/uploads/confs/2003-ctph/phct_bonnie_henry.pdf
As a result, there were always more people coming in from out of town, out of province, out of country, requiring our services than the department was funded for by the province.
- Reaction score
- 19,390
- Points
- 1,360
So how does Toronto's mighty economic power play into Ontario's $12B transfer from the federal government, or was that the result of the ruralites from Pickle Lake to Temiskaming?
The flip side would be those rural folk not overly impressed with Toronto's repeated voting for Kathleen Wynne..."Qui gladio ferit, gladio perit." :nod:
Regards
G2G
- Reaction score
- 1,420
- Points
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Getting out is just a fantasy, Chris.
"In the 1970s, Paul Godfrey presented to the Royal Commission on Metropolitan Toronto, as chairman of Metropolitan Toronto, arguments that the region should have the capability to set policy as does a provincial government."
"Political observers say the change is unlikely to happen, given it would require the approval of Parliament and seven of the provinces, with at least 50 per cent of the population."
Toronto Star March 16, 2010
"In the 1970s, Paul Godfrey presented to the Royal Commission on Metropolitan Toronto, as chairman of Metropolitan Toronto, arguments that the region should have the capability to set policy as does a provincial government."
"Political observers say the change is unlikely to happen, given it would require the approval of Parliament and seven of the provinces, with at least 50 per cent of the population."
Toronto Star March 16, 2010
- Reaction score
- 7,668
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mariomike said:
I know. I saw your first time posting that. But it never hurts to dream a bit. And the future is always up for grabs. There are 7,476,724,138 (and counting) equally intelligent people that disagree with me and would rather live in their fantasy world. Everyone of them makes decisions that impact me. So I have given up on trying to predict what stability looks like and plan for chaos.
- Reaction score
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Chris Pook said:I know. I saw your first time posting that. But it never hurts to dream a bit. And the future is always up for grabs. There are 7,476,724,138 (and counting) equally intelligent people that disagree with me and would rather live in their fantasy world. Everyone of them makes decisions that impact me. So I have given up on trying to predict what stability looks like and plan for chaos.
Reminds me of a guy I once knew. Hated his wife with a passion. I believe the feeling was mutual, although according to him, she had other pursuits. I know he did.
I asked why not go see a lawyer and an accountant and draw up the separation agreement and divorce papers. But, it was impossible. They were from a village in Old Europe - would have created a scandal with the Church and destroyed the family.
Like those TV commercials. "I'm living with ( insert horrible disease ) but I'm not letting it get me down."
- Reaction score
- 19,390
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- 1,360
mariomike said:
I know. You quoted him, so the issue is clearly of interest to you, so I asked your thoughts on some other aspects of the issue that Broadbent did not address.
Don't feel as though you have to answer, but understand that I don't think I'm the only person to be wondering such questions.
Regards
G2G
p.s. I was born and raised in T.O., so this is not coming from someone indoctrinated to "despise" Canada's self-proclaimed centre of the universe from birth.
- Reaction score
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Good2Golf said:
ok. I should know better than to reply, but I'll do my best.
1) I could give two - one federal and one provincial - f%$#s about party politics.
I only vote in City elections. Because the politicians at City Hall are the ones we depend on to support the pay and benefits we deserve.
But, if you want to make me the token whipping boy for "rural folk not overly impressed", go right ahead. Because I don't care about party politics.
2 ) As for "those rural folk" you mention, let me tell you something. Next time the tones go off and I refuse to roll for "those rural folk" trying to make it safely out of town on that 16-lane deathtrap they call the 401, then you can ... well I don't know because thankfully that's no longer my job.
- Reaction score
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Urbanites and rural folk have a symbiotic relationship, rural areas provide the bread basket and natural resources while urban areas provide the market and services.
Also, Having grown up 30km from what was the largest Zinc mine in the world, I'd challenge your assertion that urban areas provide the manpower for resource extraction, there is a reason they call Fort Mac, "Little Newfoundland".
We don't have a rural/urban problem in Canada, what we do have is a government mismanagement problem and misplaced priorities. The Ontario government has done a piss poor job developing infrastructure in Northern Ontario, infrastructure that is desperately required to get the resources that exist in the North to the markets. The ring of Fire mining camp comes to mind, yes commodity prices are low right now; however, when they inevitably trend upwards again, Ontario should make sure it's in a position to capitalize and not be chasing after something they should have already had in place.
Also, Having grown up 30km from what was the largest Zinc mine in the world, I'd challenge your assertion that urban areas provide the manpower for resource extraction, there is a reason they call Fort Mac, "Little Newfoundland".
We don't have a rural/urban problem in Canada, what we do have is a government mismanagement problem and misplaced priorities. The Ontario government has done a piss poor job developing infrastructure in Northern Ontario, infrastructure that is desperately required to get the resources that exist in the North to the markets. The ring of Fire mining camp comes to mind, yes commodity prices are low right now; however, when they inevitably trend upwards again, Ontario should make sure it's in a position to capitalize and not be chasing after something they should have already had in place.
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