Chlorine bombs mark new guerrilla tactics: U.S
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A bit more - interesting to compare EVERYTHING that was said about chlorine in the briefing, and compare it to the media coverage.
Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.
Highlights, DoD News Briefing with Lt. Gen. Odierno From Iraq
February 22, 2007 12:00 PM EST
Article Link
GEN. ODIERNO: Late on February 20th, 3rd Battalion, 509th Airborne discovered a car bomb factory near Kharma, which is about 12 miles northeast of Fallujah. The unit discovered numerous artillery rounds, mortar rounds, bombs, rockets, gutted anti-aircraft shells, a pickup truck and three other vehicles that were already in various stages of preparations as car bombs, as well as much detonation material. We also found ingredients to be used to devise or enhance explosives such as fertilizer and chlorine cylinders. We also found the various components of a metal shop, including welders, burner stoves, circular saws, sanders and other items needed to build explosive devices.
(....)
Q This is Kristin Roberts with Reuters. General, can you please give us a little bit more information about the downings of the helicopters, as well as the two chemical bombs we've seen in the last two days? Are these representative or are these indicative of a change in tactics in the insurgency, and how are they becoming more capable?
GEN. ODIERNO: Well, I don't think they're any more capable. Of course they adapt like we do. And what they're trying to do is try to adapt in such ways where they can continue to create instability, and that's what they're doing, especially with these chlorine VBIEDs. That's just another way they're trying to adapt to cause some sort of chaos here in country. And we'll continue to adapt towards those. As I said, when we found this factory a day and a half ago, we found chlorine cylinders there. So we'll continue to work against that as best we can.
(....)
Q General, this is Courtney Kube from NBC News. On the chlorine bombs, how concerned is the U.S. military about this? Would you classify it as an emerging threat, or a new tactic? I mean what's the level of concern? And can you give us an idea of who might be employing this tactic? Is it Sunni extremists? Are we looking at al Qaeda in Iraq? What?
GEN. ODIERNO: You know, we have found over the last year or so, couple of years, we have found attempts of them to try to use all different types of chemical mixtures in order to try to make VBIEDs more lethal, and this is just another way to do it. Now, I would say in that incident the other day, we had one individual, a civilian killed. All the others were very minor injuries. So what we have to do is continue to evaluate what does it mean, and what we can do to try to stop them from detonating them at all, of course, but also what we have to do to protect the populace when this happens. And we're studying that now.
(....)
Q General, it's Al Pessin from Voice of America. Do you have any indication that it's the Qods force or other Iranians who are transferring whatever technology's involved in the chlorine bombs? And are you comfortable with what the briefer said 10 days ago, that this support from Iran is coming from the highest levels of the Iranian government?
GEN. ODIERNO: First off, I have no evidence so far that they have anything to do with the chlorine bombs. I have not seen anything like that, but I'll look into it. I've not seen anything that says that. And secondly, I don't know if it goes to the highest levels of the government. What we do know is that the Qods force has had involvement with some extremist groups in Iraq. That's what I know. Who knows about it and who doesn't know about it in Iran, I really don't know. And frankly, I don't focus much on that. I let other people focus on those issues. I try to focus here on my mission here in Iraq.
(....)
General Discusses Chlorine Bombs, Helicopter Shoot-downs
Jim Garamone, Armed Forces Press Service, 23 Feb 07
Article Link
The enemy in Iraq is adaptive, and is interested in "catastrophic attacks," the commander of coalition ground forces in Iraq said today. Army Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, commander of Multinational Corps Iraq, met with Pentagon reporters over a satellite link from Baghdad. Insurgents blew up a tanker filled with chlorine yesterday in southern Baghdad. The attack killed at least two people and wounded more than 30. Coalition officials in Baghdad said this could be an escalation in the insurgent attacks.
The attacks are meant to cause fear, and chlorine gas - which was used as a chemical agent in World War I - could be an attempt to cause more fear, officials said.
U.S. soldiers operating 12 miles northwest of Fallujah discovered a car bomb factory Feb. 20, Odierno said. They found numerous artillery rounds, mortar rounds, bombs, rockets, gutted anti-aircraft shells, a pickup truck and three other vehicles that were already in various stages of preparations as car bombs.
"We also found ingredients to be used to devise or enhance explosives such as fertilizer and chlorine cylinders," the general said.
The introduction of chlorine illustrates that the enemy continues to alter its tactics, Odierno said.
"What they're trying to do is try to adapt in such ways where they can continue to create instability, and that's what they're doing, especially with these chlorine (vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices)," he said.
But as the enemy changes its tactics, he noted, so will coalition forces.
The general said eight coalition helicopters have been shot down since Jan. 20. A UH-60 Black Hawk came down yesterday north of Baghdad. The cause of that downing is still being investigated, Odierno said, but initial reports indicate enemy fire brought it down.
"We are aggressively examining the conditions of each incident and adapting tactics and techniques to address the issue."
The helicopters may have run into enemy ambush sites, Odierno said.
"We are studying those intently, and we're trying to learn from those, and we will learn from those and we will adapt our tactics," he said. "I think they've probably been trying to do this for a long time, but my guess is we have a cell out there that's somewhat effective."
Military mum on response to chlorine bombs
Matthew Cox, Marine Corps Times, 22 Feb 07
Article Link
Military officials would not comment Thursday on whether American troops will begin wearing chemical protective gear, despite the possibility of makeshift chemical attacks in Iraq.
In two separate incidents in the past week, insurgents in Iraq have detonated car bombs that contained large amounts of chlorine. No U.S. soldiers were exposed to the blasts, which spewed chlorine into the air and sent numerous Iraqis to the hospital.
Ground troops found “chlorine cylinders” during a recent search operation, said Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, commander of the Multi-National Corps-Iraq, during a Thursday video teleconference from Iraq.
He said this kind of tactic is not new.
“Over the last couple years we have found attempts from [insurgents] to use all different types of chemicals to make vehicle-borne [improvised explosive devices] more lethal,” Odierno said. “What we have to continue to evaluate is, ‘What does it mean? How can we stop them?’ ”
Army officials in Iraq would not comment when asked if commanders considered the use of chlorine a renewed threat, or if soldiers would begin carrying chemical protective gear.
Instead, they offered this written statement from spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher Garver:
“Although the perpetrators have not been identified, coalition forces are assisting Iraqi security forces conducting a thorough investigation into this incident. This action reflects the desperation of the terrorists who are trying to destroy the Iraqis’ confidence in their government’s ability to protect them.”
Coalition Faces Two New Insurgent Tactics in Iraq
Al Pessin, Voice of America, 22 Feb 07
Article Link
The second-ranking U.S. commander in Iraq says his forces are working to counter two new capabilities developed by insurgents - an improved ability to shoot down helicopters and a new type of bomb that involves deadly chlorine gas. The general spoke via satellite from Baghdad to reporters at the Pentagon, and VOA's Al Pessin reports.
Lieutenant General Ray Odierno says eight coalition helicopters have been brought down in the last month, and his forces are beginning to develop some information about how and why that happened.
"We're seeing some common tactics, techniques and procedures, which I don't want to comment on," he said. "And so, we seem to be aware of what they're doing and we're trying to understand what those are, learn about it, so we can protect our aircraft, but more importantly, try to go after the cells."
General Odierno says coalition troops detained a man last week who they believe was a member of one of those cells, and made more arrests in raids during the last few nights. The general believes the cells are affiliated with the al-Qaida terrorist network. General Odierno says protecting the helicopters is essential for the coalition because it relies heavily on the aircraft for safe transport. He reports the coalition will fly about 400,000 hours of helicopter missions this year, nearly double the usage level of two years ago.
General Odierno also discussed the recent use of three chlorine gas bombs by insurgents. He says his forces discovered a supply of the gas at an insurgent bomb factory they raided on Tuesday near Fallujah, along with explosives, detonators and four vehicles in the process of being fitted with large bombs.
"What they're trying to do is try to adapt in such ways where they can continue to create instability," he added. "And that's what they're doing, especially with these chlorine VBIEDs [vehicle borne explosive devices]. That's just another way they're trying to adapt to cause some sort of chaos here in country."
The general says he has seen no indication that Iranians are involved in providing the chlorine bomb capability. Ten days ago, speaking on condition of anonymity, military officials in Baghdad accused top Iranian officials of providing bomb-making technology and materials to the Iraqi insurgents. On Thursday, General Odierno joined other top officials in saying he is not sure whether the Iranian involvement goes to the top of the Tehran government, as the briefers claimed.
On other issues, General Odierno said he supports Britain's decision to withdrawal 1,600 of its 7,000 troops from southern Iraq. He says Iraqi forces in the area have made "plenty of progress," and that soon they will be able to handle security on their own, with coalition forces in what he called an 'over-watch' role. The general says that is the plan for the entire country.
He also reports that the new Baghdad security operation is going well so far, with Iraqi commanders taking the promised even-handed approach toward both Sunni and Shi'ite groups that commit violence. But General Odierno also said it will take months to see significant results from the effort, and he urged observers to be patient.
Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.
Highlights, DoD News Briefing with Lt. Gen. Odierno From Iraq
February 22, 2007 12:00 PM EST
Article Link
GEN. ODIERNO: Late on February 20th, 3rd Battalion, 509th Airborne discovered a car bomb factory near Kharma, which is about 12 miles northeast of Fallujah. The unit discovered numerous artillery rounds, mortar rounds, bombs, rockets, gutted anti-aircraft shells, a pickup truck and three other vehicles that were already in various stages of preparations as car bombs, as well as much detonation material. We also found ingredients to be used to devise or enhance explosives such as fertilizer and chlorine cylinders. We also found the various components of a metal shop, including welders, burner stoves, circular saws, sanders and other items needed to build explosive devices.
(....)
Q This is Kristin Roberts with Reuters. General, can you please give us a little bit more information about the downings of the helicopters, as well as the two chemical bombs we've seen in the last two days? Are these representative or are these indicative of a change in tactics in the insurgency, and how are they becoming more capable?
GEN. ODIERNO: Well, I don't think they're any more capable. Of course they adapt like we do. And what they're trying to do is try to adapt in such ways where they can continue to create instability, and that's what they're doing, especially with these chlorine VBIEDs. That's just another way they're trying to adapt to cause some sort of chaos here in country. And we'll continue to adapt towards those. As I said, when we found this factory a day and a half ago, we found chlorine cylinders there. So we'll continue to work against that as best we can.
(....)
Q General, this is Courtney Kube from NBC News. On the chlorine bombs, how concerned is the U.S. military about this? Would you classify it as an emerging threat, or a new tactic? I mean what's the level of concern? And can you give us an idea of who might be employing this tactic? Is it Sunni extremists? Are we looking at al Qaeda in Iraq? What?
GEN. ODIERNO: You know, we have found over the last year or so, couple of years, we have found attempts of them to try to use all different types of chemical mixtures in order to try to make VBIEDs more lethal, and this is just another way to do it. Now, I would say in that incident the other day, we had one individual, a civilian killed. All the others were very minor injuries. So what we have to do is continue to evaluate what does it mean, and what we can do to try to stop them from detonating them at all, of course, but also what we have to do to protect the populace when this happens. And we're studying that now.
(....)
Q General, it's Al Pessin from Voice of America. Do you have any indication that it's the Qods force or other Iranians who are transferring whatever technology's involved in the chlorine bombs? And are you comfortable with what the briefer said 10 days ago, that this support from Iran is coming from the highest levels of the Iranian government?
GEN. ODIERNO: First off, I have no evidence so far that they have anything to do with the chlorine bombs. I have not seen anything like that, but I'll look into it. I've not seen anything that says that. And secondly, I don't know if it goes to the highest levels of the government. What we do know is that the Qods force has had involvement with some extremist groups in Iraq. That's what I know. Who knows about it and who doesn't know about it in Iran, I really don't know. And frankly, I don't focus much on that. I let other people focus on those issues. I try to focus here on my mission here in Iraq.
(....)
General Discusses Chlorine Bombs, Helicopter Shoot-downs
Jim Garamone, Armed Forces Press Service, 23 Feb 07
Article Link
The enemy in Iraq is adaptive, and is interested in "catastrophic attacks," the commander of coalition ground forces in Iraq said today. Army Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, commander of Multinational Corps Iraq, met with Pentagon reporters over a satellite link from Baghdad. Insurgents blew up a tanker filled with chlorine yesterday in southern Baghdad. The attack killed at least two people and wounded more than 30. Coalition officials in Baghdad said this could be an escalation in the insurgent attacks.
The attacks are meant to cause fear, and chlorine gas - which was used as a chemical agent in World War I - could be an attempt to cause more fear, officials said.
U.S. soldiers operating 12 miles northwest of Fallujah discovered a car bomb factory Feb. 20, Odierno said. They found numerous artillery rounds, mortar rounds, bombs, rockets, gutted anti-aircraft shells, a pickup truck and three other vehicles that were already in various stages of preparations as car bombs.
"We also found ingredients to be used to devise or enhance explosives such as fertilizer and chlorine cylinders," the general said.
The introduction of chlorine illustrates that the enemy continues to alter its tactics, Odierno said.
"What they're trying to do is try to adapt in such ways where they can continue to create instability, and that's what they're doing, especially with these chlorine (vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices)," he said.
But as the enemy changes its tactics, he noted, so will coalition forces.
The general said eight coalition helicopters have been shot down since Jan. 20. A UH-60 Black Hawk came down yesterday north of Baghdad. The cause of that downing is still being investigated, Odierno said, but initial reports indicate enemy fire brought it down.
"We are aggressively examining the conditions of each incident and adapting tactics and techniques to address the issue."
The helicopters may have run into enemy ambush sites, Odierno said.
"We are studying those intently, and we're trying to learn from those, and we will learn from those and we will adapt our tactics," he said. "I think they've probably been trying to do this for a long time, but my guess is we have a cell out there that's somewhat effective."
Military mum on response to chlorine bombs
Matthew Cox, Marine Corps Times, 22 Feb 07
Article Link
Military officials would not comment Thursday on whether American troops will begin wearing chemical protective gear, despite the possibility of makeshift chemical attacks in Iraq.
In two separate incidents in the past week, insurgents in Iraq have detonated car bombs that contained large amounts of chlorine. No U.S. soldiers were exposed to the blasts, which spewed chlorine into the air and sent numerous Iraqis to the hospital.
Ground troops found “chlorine cylinders” during a recent search operation, said Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, commander of the Multi-National Corps-Iraq, during a Thursday video teleconference from Iraq.
He said this kind of tactic is not new.
“Over the last couple years we have found attempts from [insurgents] to use all different types of chemicals to make vehicle-borne [improvised explosive devices] more lethal,” Odierno said. “What we have to continue to evaluate is, ‘What does it mean? How can we stop them?’ ”
Army officials in Iraq would not comment when asked if commanders considered the use of chlorine a renewed threat, or if soldiers would begin carrying chemical protective gear.
Instead, they offered this written statement from spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher Garver:
“Although the perpetrators have not been identified, coalition forces are assisting Iraqi security forces conducting a thorough investigation into this incident. This action reflects the desperation of the terrorists who are trying to destroy the Iraqis’ confidence in their government’s ability to protect them.”
Coalition Faces Two New Insurgent Tactics in Iraq
Al Pessin, Voice of America, 22 Feb 07
Article Link
The second-ranking U.S. commander in Iraq says his forces are working to counter two new capabilities developed by insurgents - an improved ability to shoot down helicopters and a new type of bomb that involves deadly chlorine gas. The general spoke via satellite from Baghdad to reporters at the Pentagon, and VOA's Al Pessin reports.
Lieutenant General Ray Odierno says eight coalition helicopters have been brought down in the last month, and his forces are beginning to develop some information about how and why that happened.
"We're seeing some common tactics, techniques and procedures, which I don't want to comment on," he said. "And so, we seem to be aware of what they're doing and we're trying to understand what those are, learn about it, so we can protect our aircraft, but more importantly, try to go after the cells."
General Odierno says coalition troops detained a man last week who they believe was a member of one of those cells, and made more arrests in raids during the last few nights. The general believes the cells are affiliated with the al-Qaida terrorist network. General Odierno says protecting the helicopters is essential for the coalition because it relies heavily on the aircraft for safe transport. He reports the coalition will fly about 400,000 hours of helicopter missions this year, nearly double the usage level of two years ago.
General Odierno also discussed the recent use of three chlorine gas bombs by insurgents. He says his forces discovered a supply of the gas at an insurgent bomb factory they raided on Tuesday near Fallujah, along with explosives, detonators and four vehicles in the process of being fitted with large bombs.
"What they're trying to do is try to adapt in such ways where they can continue to create instability," he added. "And that's what they're doing, especially with these chlorine VBIEDs [vehicle borne explosive devices]. That's just another way they're trying to adapt to cause some sort of chaos here in country."
The general says he has seen no indication that Iranians are involved in providing the chlorine bomb capability. Ten days ago, speaking on condition of anonymity, military officials in Baghdad accused top Iranian officials of providing bomb-making technology and materials to the Iraqi insurgents. On Thursday, General Odierno joined other top officials in saying he is not sure whether the Iranian involvement goes to the top of the Tehran government, as the briefers claimed.
On other issues, General Odierno said he supports Britain's decision to withdrawal 1,600 of its 7,000 troops from southern Iraq. He says Iraqi forces in the area have made "plenty of progress," and that soon they will be able to handle security on their own, with coalition forces in what he called an 'over-watch' role. The general says that is the plan for the entire country.
He also reports that the new Baghdad security operation is going well so far, with Iraqi commanders taking the promised even-handed approach toward both Sunni and Shi'ite groups that commit violence. But General Odierno also said it will take months to see significant results from the effort, and he urged observers to be patient.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
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Funny how this doesn't make news but god help the US if they make one mistake.......then MSM is all over it!
- Reaction score
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Chlorine blasts kills 8, makes dozens ill in Iraq
Last Updated: Saturday, March 17, 2007 | 10:04 AM ET
CBC News
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/17/iraq-chlorine.html
About 350 Iraqi civilians and six U.S. troops were treated for chlorine gas exposure after suicide bombings south of Fallujah, the U.S. military said on Saturday.
Two bombers driving dump trucks with chlorine-filled tanks killed at least eight people on Friday, the military said.
The first blast occurred on the edge of the village of Amiriyat, just outside Fallujah, 60 kilometres west of Baghdad.
The bomber struck at the entrance of a large housing complex, killing six civilians and two police officers.
About 100 people, including several children, reported symptoms ranging from skin and lung irritations to vomiting, officials said.
That was followed by a similar explosion, also south of Fallujah, in the Albu Issa tribal region.
U.S. forces responded to the attack and found about 250 civilians suffering from symptoms related to chlorine exposure, according to a statement from the U.S. military.
Chlorine is a liquid under pressure but turns into a gas when released. The fumes can cause severe respiratory damage if inhaled.
A large amount in the lungs can form hydrochloric acid that burns lung tissue.
Militants reportedly set off chlorine explosions at least three times last month in Iraq, killing eight people.
The U.S. military said last month that its troops found a car bomb factory near Fallujah with about 65 propane tanks and ordinary chemicals it believed the insurgents were going to try to mix with explosives.
Last Updated: Saturday, March 17, 2007 | 10:04 AM ET
CBC News
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/17/iraq-chlorine.html
About 350 Iraqi civilians and six U.S. troops were treated for chlorine gas exposure after suicide bombings south of Fallujah, the U.S. military said on Saturday.
Two bombers driving dump trucks with chlorine-filled tanks killed at least eight people on Friday, the military said.
The first blast occurred on the edge of the village of Amiriyat, just outside Fallujah, 60 kilometres west of Baghdad.
The bomber struck at the entrance of a large housing complex, killing six civilians and two police officers.
About 100 people, including several children, reported symptoms ranging from skin and lung irritations to vomiting, officials said.
That was followed by a similar explosion, also south of Fallujah, in the Albu Issa tribal region.
U.S. forces responded to the attack and found about 250 civilians suffering from symptoms related to chlorine exposure, according to a statement from the U.S. military.
Chlorine is a liquid under pressure but turns into a gas when released. The fumes can cause severe respiratory damage if inhaled.
A large amount in the lungs can form hydrochloric acid that burns lung tissue.
Militants reportedly set off chlorine explosions at least three times last month in Iraq, killing eight people.
The U.S. military said last month that its troops found a car bomb factory near Fallujah with about 65 propane tanks and ordinary chemicals it believed the insurgents were going to try to mix with explosives.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
From an outsiders view on this......
I watch an awful lot of news. from a variety of sources, about the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one theme that has been used an awful lot, recently, is that there can be no "military only" solution to the conflicts in both of these countries. There must be a dialogue, or a political element to solving both. My question is, how on earth are we expected to negotiate, engage in duologue, pursue a nonmilitary approach to solving these conflicts, with an enemy that uses such indiscriminate tactics? I know suicide bombings, and hijacked airliners are just as indiscriminate. But the use of these chlorine bombs, steps it up a few notches. Are we really kidding ourselves when politicians in White Hall, and Washington are constantly saying we need try and solve these conflicts by means other than the use of force?
I watch an awful lot of news. from a variety of sources, about the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one theme that has been used an awful lot, recently, is that there can be no "military only" solution to the conflicts in both of these countries. There must be a dialogue, or a political element to solving both. My question is, how on earth are we expected to negotiate, engage in duologue, pursue a nonmilitary approach to solving these conflicts, with an enemy that uses such indiscriminate tactics? I know suicide bombings, and hijacked airliners are just as indiscriminate. But the use of these chlorine bombs, steps it up a few notches. Are we really kidding ourselves when politicians in White Hall, and Washington are constantly saying we need try and solve these conflicts by means other than the use of force?
- Reaction score
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- Points
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What "there can be no military solution" really means
that the left are horrified that the military is usefull at all.
Pacifism is an easy sell for the population at large.
When the military is deployed they (we) suddenly realize
that we are not as safe or popular as we would like to
believe we are.
If the military are on a base at home, or better yet,
disbanded then we can live in our quiet little illusion.
In all of the reading I have done in the past few years
I have NEVER seen a usefull suggestion coming from the
"peace" community.
I have NEVER seen an alternative to deploying the military that
wasn't just silly.
that the left are horrified that the military is usefull at all.
Pacifism is an easy sell for the population at large.
When the military is deployed they (we) suddenly realize
that we are not as safe or popular as we would like to
believe we are.
If the military are on a base at home, or better yet,
disbanded then we can live in our quiet little illusion.
In all of the reading I have done in the past few years
I have NEVER seen a usefull suggestion coming from the
"peace" community.
I have NEVER seen an alternative to deploying the military that
wasn't just silly.
- Reaction score
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Not that this is the peace community, but it offers some thought, from former players involved in the current situation.
http://www.independent.org/events/transcript.asp?eventID=115
Didn't post the whole article on here, it's too big.
http://www.independent.org/events/transcript.asp?eventID=115
Didn't post the whole article on here, it's too big.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
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My only hope is that the tactics will become so awful that it will make the people, tribal leaders realize that they have to deal with the insurgents themselves. It seems we are seeing a fair bit of backlash against AQ in Al-Anabar Province and hopefully the political side can build on that, while the military supports the efforts.
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On my continuing series of "There Ain't Nuthing New Under The Sun: Everything Old Is New Again" I offer the following article. It is from National Review Online and I came across it on Iraq The Model.
I tried to condense it just to those elements that were germane to the discussion on today's situation.....but found I couldn't. It is all germane.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjAxOWZhOWQ1YWMwNDEwMDIyYmQ0MjQwZjgyOGFkZTU=
I tried to condense it just to those elements that were germane to the discussion on today's situation.....but found I couldn't. It is all germane.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjAxOWZhOWQ1YWMwNDEwMDIyYmQ0MjQwZjgyOGFkZTU=
- Reaction score
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Chlorine Bombs are IMHO an indication of desperation of the insurgents. It is based on the lack of good explosives available to create real bombs. Same issue as suicide bombers it is a sign of desperation and an inability to mass resources, which is always a good sign.
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