Chinese Military,Political and Social Superthread

[Brad Sallows]

I doubt many people are stupid enough to follow China's lead in attempts to massage the treatment of protestors into the same frame.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Start of a post:

Parliamentarians from Liberal Democracies, including Canada, versus the Dragon

Further to this post which features former Canadian federal justice minister Irwin Cotler, a Liberal (see second quote below for more on Mr Cotler),

COVID-19 and the Curse/Menace of the Chicoms

we now have a most encouraging development, one would love a reaction from PM Trudeau. First a story in the South China Morning Post:

18 Western lawmakers form group to take ‘tougher stance’ on China
...

https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/06/05/parliamentarians-from-liberal-democracies-including-canada-versus-the-dragon/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

The testimony by former ambassador to China David Mulroney is exceptionally worth the read and most remarkable from a retired most senior Canadian diplomat--note his implications about our rot within (further links at original):

Cancelled testimony by David Mulroney raises alarm over government’s China policy

With the activities of Canada’s valuable Special Committee on Canada-China Relations sidelined by the government, parliamentarians were denied an important opportunity to hear from one of the country’s leading experts on dealing with the regime in Beijing.

In a new MLI commentary titled Open Memo to the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations, former Canadian ambassador to China and MLI’s newest advisory council member, David Mulroney, provides his thoughts on the increasingly cold Canada-China relationship. Mulroney was originally scheduled to appear before the Committee on March 23, 2020; however, this meeting has been postponed indefinitely due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

In his remarks, Mulroney expresses alarm over Canada’s tendency to ignore (and in effect, normalize) China’s egregious human rights violations and long-standing efforts to undermine democracy. This past year has seen increasingly aggressive tactics from Beijing as Communist Party authorities impose a ‘national security law’ on Hong Kong, undermine peace and security in the Indo-Pacific, and continue the brutal repression of the Uighur people. China’s authoritarian leaders have also sought to erase any international recognition of Taiwan.

Mulroney makes the case that Canada is not immune to China’s aggression, as was clearly demonstrated following the arrest of Meng Wanzhou. As a cruel retaliation, two Canadians, Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor, were arbitrarily detained, and China enacted a campaign of economic coercion against Canada.

“We were once a country that was willing to face up to such challenges,” says Mulroney. “We need to find that courage again.”

Moving forward, Mulroney urges the special committee to return to work.

“From my perspective, the opportunity to be part of this critical conversation about how we promote and defend Canadian interests in the face of an increasingly assertive and, at times adversarial China is something not to be missed, nor is the chance to be of some small service on an issue of national importance,” notes Mulroney.

He offers four suggestions that policy-makers should consider as they reframe their approach to China:

    Effective diplomacy should reveal the truth as it is imperative for the government to be truthful to Canadians.
    The aim for any truly significant review is not just for policy clarity, but for coherence and coordination in its delivery. The ambassador must also be clearly and carefully aligned with the changing government policy.
    There will be no profound or purposeful China policy change if it is not owned or led by the Prime Minister.
    Protecting Canada’s interests will come with its costs and risks, however, failing to do so will be even more costly.

“We don’t need to insult or provoke China,” Mulroney explains. “But we do need a China policy that is smarter, much more selective, more honest, and, frankly, more courageous.”

Read the full commentary here.
https://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/cancelled-testimony-david-mulroney-raises-alarm-governments-china-policy/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Weinie]

Thanks Mark. Very interesting read. Have been increasingly impressed by David Mulroney's candor. Excoriates both a former and current Liberal PM. Who knew :sarcasm:

 

[Good2Golf]

Canadians should be more attuned to what those in the know such as David Mulroney and Dick Fadden have been saying for some time.  We need to be on guard, Vice seeing what happened and saying, “yeah...they sure were right!”

 

[MarkOttawa]

Canadians should be more attuned to what those in the know such as David Mulroney and Dick Fadden have been saying for some time.  We need to be on guard, Vice seeing what happened and saying, “yeah...they sure were right!”

Start of a post, Dick Fadden noted at it and a tweet from David Mulroney near the end:

Chicoms’ Pernicious United Front Work Dept. around the World, especially in Australia (and in Canada)

Further to this post,

Pernicious Diplomacy with Chinese Characteristics in Canada (including United Front Work Dept.) and Our Government’s Limp Response

Joanna Chiu (tweets here) of the Toronto Star’s Vancouver bureau has an article on a major report by an Australian think thank:

China’s foreign interference likely ‘widespread’ in Canada, says author of new report
...

https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/06/09/chicoms-pernicious-united-front-work-dept-around-the-world-especially-in-australia-and-in-canada/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Start and conclusion of a post:

“Elite Capture’, or, Chicoms’ Pernicious Influence and Interference in Canada–more on Compradors, United Front Work Department and Pols

Further to this post,

Pernicious Diplomacy with Chinese Characteristics in Canada (including United Front Work Dept.) and Our Government’s Limp Response

which at 2) features reporting by Sam Cooper (tweets here), we now have this (with videos) from the ace Global News investigative reporter:

Why CSIS believes Canada is a ‘permissive target’ for China’s interference
...
[Liberal MP David] McGuinty [chair of newish NSICOP] reiterated that the committee recommendations are bipartisan and straightforward, and the committee purposefully chose Australia as an exemplar to be considered by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government.

“We believe the government needs to up its game when it comes to foreign interference,” he said. “There is lots of room for improvement [emphasis added].”..

UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE DAY.
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/06/24/elite-capture-or-chicoms-pernicious-influence-and-interference-in-canada-more-on-compradors-united-front-work-department-and-pols/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I am still waiting for GreenPeace to go over to the South Pacific and protest the destruction of coral reefs by the PLN.

 

[OldSolduer]

I am still waiting for GreenPeace to go over to the South Pacific and protest the destruction of coral reefs by the PLN.

Hell will have frozen over and the Winnipeg Jets will win the Stanley Cup before that happens.

Besides only Western nations can big big bad polluters of the environment.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Slime bag slave lords....a pox on the whole CCP



https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/china-says-kovrig-spavor-may-be-freed-if-canada-ends-meng-wanzhou-case/ar-BB15WlpJ?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

China has explicitly tied the fate of two detained Canadians to the release of Meng Wanzhou, joining the growing calls for Ottawa to intervene in the Huawei executive's extradition.
In a media briefing Wednesday, Zhao Lijian, the spokesman for China's foreign ministry, cited comments made by Michael Kovrig's wife to the CBC and Reuters saying Canada's justice minister has the power to end Meng's extradition to the United States "at any point."

MORE AT LINK

 

[QV]

FBI Director Wray says over 2,000 active investigations tied to China.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fbi-director-wray-says-over-2-000-active-investigations-tied-to-china

 

[MarkOttawa]

Now in Australia--start of a post:

Aussies Getting really Serious about Going After Chicoms’ Influence/Interference Activities

C’mon PM Trudeau, have the government you lead start taking active, public measures against these activities involving Canada and Canadians. Further to this post,

Chicoms’ Pernicious United Front Work Dept. around the World, especially in Australia (and in Canada)

a report in the NY Times:

Australian Politician’s Home Raided in Chinese Influence Inquiry
...

https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/06/27/aussies-getting-really-serious-about-going-after-chicoms-influence-interference-activities/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kat Stevens]

The most amazing part to me is that people still use the term "ChiComs".  Haven't seen that one in donkey's years.

 

[MarkOttawa]

I just like the term "Chicoms" because it is, well, accurate--been using the terms for yonks, e.g. from a 2104 post:

Chicoms=Canadian Cabinet Splittism?
...
Sources tell CBC that dissent reaches into cabinet room, with Jason Kenney and James Moore on one side, while John Baird and Joe Oliver would like closer trade ties with China…while the prime minister is somewhere in the middle…
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2014/04/22/mark-collins-chicomscanadian-cabinet-splittism/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kat Stevens]

I know, and I get nostalgic for all the old cold war hooha every time I see it! Not intended as a slight at all, and apologies if you took it that way.

 

[CBH99]

Do we want closer trade relations with China?

Or, are we wiser to expand and strengthen trade with other population dense countries, such as India?



As we all know, China manufactures a lot of the world's "stuff".  But that could change over the next few years as China steps on, insults, holds citizens hostage, and conducts influencing operations on world governments and foreign universities, among other institutions.

There are quite a few developing countries, with access to coastlines, that would love the opportunity to build up their local industries to become manufacturing hubs.


In terms of Canada, I believe our biggest export to China is various agricultural products, wheats & grains, etc.  As the population of the world grows, can we not find another market for it fairly easily?



While everybody likes being able to go to Wal-Mart and buy a toaster for $12 (Cheaper than some fast food meals, which is kinda scary) -- I think most people would eventually accept paying $1 to $2 more for goods produced in a country that doesn't give us anywhere near the headache that China does. 

(Kidnapping 2 citizens and holding them in prison, while Meng sits in a mansion arrested on a legitimate warrant.  Unilaterally suspending trade, leaving our farmers in financial desperation.  Hauwei influence.  Chinese sponsored groups influencing university politics, local politicians, hording medical supplies during a pandemic they already knew was happening, etc etc etc.)



Many former diplomats, and senior academics with access to Chinese government officials, have regularly reported to us how little the Chinese government thinks of us.  They also referred to Australia as "gum on the bottom of their shoe."

Maybe it's time the west starts looking elsewhere to be the manufacturing hub for us?

 

[Edward Campbell]

...

As we all know, China manufactures a lot of the world's "stuff".  But that could change over the next few years as China steps on, insults, holds citizens hostage, and conducts influencing operations on world governments and foreign universities, among other institutions.

There are quite a few developing countries, with access to coastlines, that would love the opportunity to build up their local industries to become manufacturing hubs.

...

China is already under pressure from other (Asian and African) low-cost-of-production economies ~ Egypt, Indonesia (the world's largest Muslim country), Nigeria, the Philippines, and Vietnam all come to mind, as does, India, of course. China never quite caught up to Japan and South Korea in the high-end technology field (AI, robotics and telecommunications)  ~ despite its size and power, Huawei is not on a qualitative par with, say, Samsung.

 

[MarkOttawa]

China is already under pressure from other (Asian and African) low-cost-of-production economies ~ Egypt, Indonesia (the world's largest Muslim country), Nigeria, the Philippines, and Vietnam all come to mind, as does, India, of course. China never quite caught up to Japan and South Korea in the high-end technology field (AI, robotics and telecommunications)  ~ despite its size and power, Huawei is not on a qualitative par with, say, Samsung.

And Bangladesh, esp. for textiles.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[FJAG]

China is already under pressure from other (Asian and African) low-cost-of-production economies ~ Egypt, Indonesia (the world's largest Muslim country), Nigeria, the Philippines, and Vietnam all come to mind, as does, India, of course. China never quite caught up to Japan and South Korea in the high-end technology field (AI, robotics and telecommunications)  ~ despite its size and power, Huawei is not on a qualitative par with, say, Samsung.

It's not so much what we buy from them, but what they buy from us that is what makes our politicians squeamish.

In 2018 we exported some USD21 billion which dropped to around USD17.5 billion in 2019 much of which is natural resources and food stuffs. https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/exports/china

Not sure how much of that China can do without but I would expect the agricultural sector would be a weak point and that might make the CPC as nervous about getting shirty with the Chinese as the LPC.

On the other hand, China is only our second largest trading partner (by far). We export around USD336 billion to the USA. https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/exports-by-country

Makes you think about who we really need to suck up to, doesn't it?

:cheers:

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

It's not so much what we buy from them, but what they buy from us that is what makes our politicians squeamish.

In 2018 we exported some USD21 billion which dropped to around USD17.5 billion in 2019 much of which is natural resources and food stuffs. https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/exports/china

Not sure how much of that China can do without but I would expect the agricultural sector would be a weak point and that might make the CPC as nervous about getting shirty with the Chinese as the LPC.

On the other hand, China is only our second largest trading partner (by far). We export around USD336 billion to the USA. https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/exports-by-country

Makes you think about who we really need to suck up to, doesn't it?

:cheers:

But they have that nasty two-party system...