Changes, needed fixes in Cadets (merged)
- Thread starter Franko
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 230
The "Cold Weather Indoctrination Course" is a course designed to teach CIC officers the skills and knowledge needed to take a cadet corps on a winter exercise. Things learned include: Hygiene in the field, improvised shelters, first aid, navigation, and the rules and regulations regarding cadets in the field during cold weather. During the course the candidates spend 1 weekend learning all the theory, and get issued their kit, the next two weekends are spent in the field, the first weekend the candidates sleep in 5 man arctic tents, the second weekend (which my father in law is on right now), they sleep in half shelters. I hope this awnsers any questions and if I‘m wrong about any of this then I apologize. If you have any more questions about this you can send me a private message and I can forward it to him.
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 430
Your officers have been ordered, it‘s just that they are choosing to ignore the ordrer. It‘s stated in the dress regulations that they are ORDERED to adhere to. If they don‘t, the ACO should come down on them like a ton of bricks. If he doesn‘t, the district comander should fire him and get a new ACO.
I know the CO of the RCD NEVER gave permission to ANY CIC officer to wear the acutriments of the Regiment.
This situation WILL be sorted out.
Regards
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
What i meant was how does a cadet report this if his/her officers are all doing it? To the best of my knowledge, there isnt a way for cadets to report something such as this, whether it be at camp or LHQ.
Franko, just outta curiosity, what have the guys in your unit said about this? And how would you know if your CO never gave permission? Perhaps he allowed this without knowledge of the QR&O.
Franko, just outta curiosity, what have the guys in your unit said about this? And how would you know if your CO never gave permission? Perhaps he allowed this without knowledge of the QR&O.
C
cdhoult
Guest
In all technicality, you, as a cadet, are not ‘bound‘, legally, to any chain of command. While it‘s nice to follow procedure, I could call the Admiral tommorow. Although I better have a good reason.
Call up your ACO, but pick your battles. In the ideal world, you should have no fear of reprecussions...however, we all know that if the CO were to find out it were you, depending on the CO, it wouldn‘t be great for your career.
Call up your ACO, but pick your battles. In the ideal world, you should have no fear of reprecussions...however, we all know that if the CO were to find out it were you, depending on the CO, it wouldn‘t be great for your career.
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 430
Firstly 3005 MWO...I am NOT a cadet. Check my profile.
I don‘t answer to the CIC CO or ACO in anyway. I do however ensure that all info is shared freely and they are kept in the ‘loop‘.
As such, there are no reprecussions for myself.
The chain of command for my situation is the Regimental Cadet LO then the CO. When the LO is not availiable or out on task, I take on his responsibilities and position. I have been told by the LO that I have the COs ear whenever I require it. I also brief the CO and LO on everything that happens on a nightly basis.
As for what the Officers in my Regiment have to say on it is "Find him and get him charged, just ensure you have all the evidence".
I have enough to begin an official investigation but am waiting for enough to ensure a conviction bigger than section 129 of QR&O Vol 2.
This charge will be pressed and completed, the only thing is when will it happen.
It‘s too bad that it came to this though...if he were to own up to it to the CO and his CO it may not have to go that far...perhapse a slap on the wrist.
Oh well...
Regards
I don‘t answer to the CIC CO or ACO in anyway. I do however ensure that all info is shared freely and they are kept in the ‘loop‘.
As such, there are no reprecussions for myself.
The chain of command for my situation is the Regimental Cadet LO then the CO. When the LO is not availiable or out on task, I take on his responsibilities and position. I have been told by the LO that I have the COs ear whenever I require it. I also brief the CO and LO on everything that happens on a nightly basis.
As for what the Officers in my Regiment have to say on it is "Find him and get him charged, just ensure you have all the evidence".
I have enough to begin an official investigation but am waiting for enough to ensure a conviction bigger than section 129 of QR&O Vol 2.
This charge will be pressed and completed, the only thing is when will it happen.
It‘s too bad that it came to this though...if he were to own up to it to the CO and his CO it may not have to go that far...perhapse a slap on the wrist.
Oh well...
Regards
C
cdhoult
Guest
I was responding to McBear, who said:
"To the best of my knowledge, there isnt a way for cadets to report something such as this,"
Sorry for the misunderstanding, but my post was RIGHT under McBears.
CH
"To the best of my knowledge, there isnt a way for cadets to report something such as this,"
Sorry for the misunderstanding, but my post was RIGHT under McBears.
CH
F
Feist
Guest
I have read through this entire thread, and it prompted me to register on this site. There are interesting and thoughtful posts here. As someone who has spent 11 years involved with the cadet program, I have much to say, but I will limit myself to what I think are the big 3 problems with the Cadet program. Overall, I think that the program is excellent, and that it is more important to the CF and to the nation than many people realize. That said, I think there is definite room for improvement. So without further ado:
#3 - PR - Most people, both in the public at large, and in the CF, have no idea what cadets do. When I ask the uninitiated about their conception of Army Cadets, responses range from glorified boy scouts to the Hitler youth. The idea that the CCM is Canada‘s best kept secret is painfully accurate. We need to recruit and retain more youth, but that will only come by better informing everyone of what it is that we actually do.
I have begun an attempt, with some success, to re-engage with our affiliated unit and with our local community. I think that the CCM as a whole needs to take the same approach.
#2 - CIC Selection/Training - High school teachers spend a minimum of 4 years in university to teach young people. CIC officers receive an 8 day course, further courses taken on their own initiative, and OJT. It is very difficult to understand the rationale behind allowing CIC officers, who are required to do much the same work as teachers training-wise (in addition to managing a military unit and in addition to running youth through moderate and high risk training situations) to enrol without meeting at least the RESO prerequisites.
This is a touchy subject for CIC officers; many officers do not hold any post-secondary education, let alone a degree. But requiring CIC officers to hold or at least to be completing university degrees would set a solid minimum standard for the Branch.
Creating CIC NCMs to fill Supply, Admin, and Assistant Training roles within Corps would ensure that units would not close due to a change that would bring CIC standards into line with the rest of the CF. In the Regular and Primary Reserve, those specialist positions (Coy Clk, Log Tech) are held by NCMs. How a cadet Administration Officer or Logistics Officer differs in function is beyond me. Creating CIC NCMs would take away the only valid excuse for not requiring CIC officers to hold degrees.
As such, as much as it offends or irritates people to hear that CIC officers should hold degrees, that standard would improve the program for our youth and bring the Branch the respect that it is due. If the cost is hurt feelings, so be it.
#1 - Mush Mentality - The biggest problem with the CCM today is a mentality that has crept into many units and establishments. This mentality basically holds that a youth organization should not adhere to any sort of military philosophy or tradition beyond the wearing of uniforms and the acceptance of military funding. I think we all realize that the CCM is trading on 12 to 18 year olds. That realization, however, does not justify or excuse the dumbing down of standards, the necessity for solid discipline, or the very successful military-based program that has seen us through the past 125 years. Many in the program see those changes as positive, as inclusive, and as a way to make things easier for everyone. And while lowering standards and decreasing discipline will definitely make things easier on people, what we lose is the spirit and raison d‘etre of the program, borne in that idscipline and those standards. Leaders are not developed by singing campfire songs and discussing feelings; leaders are developed through command on the parade square and in the field. That is reality.
We already have a Scout program in this country; the CCM is different and its success is a testament to that difference. Changing what is broken with the cadet program is fine; changing what works is a dangerous and foolish course.
Apologies for the novel. CEDE NULLIS.
#3 - PR - Most people, both in the public at large, and in the CF, have no idea what cadets do. When I ask the uninitiated about their conception of Army Cadets, responses range from glorified boy scouts to the Hitler youth. The idea that the CCM is Canada‘s best kept secret is painfully accurate. We need to recruit and retain more youth, but that will only come by better informing everyone of what it is that we actually do.
I have begun an attempt, with some success, to re-engage with our affiliated unit and with our local community. I think that the CCM as a whole needs to take the same approach.
#2 - CIC Selection/Training - High school teachers spend a minimum of 4 years in university to teach young people. CIC officers receive an 8 day course, further courses taken on their own initiative, and OJT. It is very difficult to understand the rationale behind allowing CIC officers, who are required to do much the same work as teachers training-wise (in addition to managing a military unit and in addition to running youth through moderate and high risk training situations) to enrol without meeting at least the RESO prerequisites.
This is a touchy subject for CIC officers; many officers do not hold any post-secondary education, let alone a degree. But requiring CIC officers to hold or at least to be completing university degrees would set a solid minimum standard for the Branch.
Creating CIC NCMs to fill Supply, Admin, and Assistant Training roles within Corps would ensure that units would not close due to a change that would bring CIC standards into line with the rest of the CF. In the Regular and Primary Reserve, those specialist positions (Coy Clk, Log Tech) are held by NCMs. How a cadet Administration Officer or Logistics Officer differs in function is beyond me. Creating CIC NCMs would take away the only valid excuse for not requiring CIC officers to hold degrees.
As such, as much as it offends or irritates people to hear that CIC officers should hold degrees, that standard would improve the program for our youth and bring the Branch the respect that it is due. If the cost is hurt feelings, so be it.
#1 - Mush Mentality - The biggest problem with the CCM today is a mentality that has crept into many units and establishments. This mentality basically holds that a youth organization should not adhere to any sort of military philosophy or tradition beyond the wearing of uniforms and the acceptance of military funding. I think we all realize that the CCM is trading on 12 to 18 year olds. That realization, however, does not justify or excuse the dumbing down of standards, the necessity for solid discipline, or the very successful military-based program that has seen us through the past 125 years. Many in the program see those changes as positive, as inclusive, and as a way to make things easier for everyone. And while lowering standards and decreasing discipline will definitely make things easier on people, what we lose is the spirit and raison d‘etre of the program, borne in that idscipline and those standards. Leaders are not developed by singing campfire songs and discussing feelings; leaders are developed through command on the parade square and in the field. That is reality.
We already have a Scout program in this country; the CCM is different and its success is a testament to that difference. Changing what is broken with the cadet program is fine; changing what works is a dangerous and foolish course.
Apologies for the novel. CEDE NULLIS.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I fought this battle, referance the CWIC, I was told by an Air ACO that it was required, I have yet to find it in print (I really haven‘t looked that hard). They told me I was not allow to supervise the cadets on a winter ex...
Feist, what a degree gives people is life experience. It can be obtained in other ways, but Caz is correct in that some sort of professional is a good role model for cadets. And Feist, CIC officers should not be cadets who just got too old for cadets and had nothing better to do. I have not met one of those who was worth anything... I know it‘s a generalization, but that‘s these forums are for generalizations.
Scott
Feist, what a degree gives people is life experience. It can be obtained in other ways, but Caz is correct in that some sort of professional is a good role model for cadets. And Feist, CIC officers should not be cadets who just got too old for cadets and had nothing better to do. I have not met one of those who was worth anything... I know it‘s a generalization, but that‘s these forums are for generalizations.
Scott
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Sorry, Feist... I was not really that clear in my last post... in principle I agree with you..
- Reaction score
- 5,554
- Points
- 1,360
Feist, you remind me of the Fedex commercial{ you don‘t understand, I have an MBA}. Get out of that stupid mindset that schooling makes you a better instructor or leader. There are lots more important attributes than whether your family could afford to send you for a degree. I have no problem with raising standards but its total foolishness to think it comes from a piece of paper. I‘ve never been involved with cadets but you personally seem to be more concerned with getting the RESPECT you think you deserve than anything else. Hopefully I‘m way off base with that last statement and if so I will be more than happy to eat my words. CHEERS
Similar threads
