Challenger/"VIP" Jet/CF Chopper Use (CDS, others) [merged]

[WingsofFury]

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Always a good idea, thumbs up for recommending those here use it.  :goodpost:

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[The Bread Guy]

Respectfully sir, they're actually midnight blue.  They do appear to be black because the shade of blue is extremely dark.

Then I stand corrected on that one - thanks! 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

From ctv.ca:

Marc Garneau, a Liberal MP and former astronaut, suggested that flying home an injured, vacationing Canadian Forces member is unprecedented. Garneau noted that he'd never heard of such a scenario during his 23 years of service in Canada's navy.

I think the good Captain should learn to restrain his mouth. First of all, his "service in Canada's Navy" was 10 years - not 23. He was RMC and Imperial College from 70 to 74. He started in the Navy in 1974 and served one small 18 months tour at sea as the baby MSEO - and that is it for sea time - then worked ashore in Halifax at Fleet SChool and NEU(A), where he would never have even heard anything about anything the Air Force or Army was doing (this is way, way, way pre-jointness). Then, he joined the Space Agency in 1984 and, while he remained in uniform, his service became entirely dedicated to the Agency and he ceased to perform any service to the Navy. I very much doubt that he kept himself informed of any going ons in DND or the Service while at the Agency.

Also, I think he might be a bit of an hypocrite on this one: He did not reveal to the CTV journalist that, like all astronauts in the program, he had to meet NASA's requirement that he pilot jets. So he had to be trained in flying unarmed military jets and, had to fly around every year (empty) just to keep up his hours. A favourite for CAnadian astronauts of course was that  whenever they had  to come to St-Hubert for any reason, they would just jump in and fly their NASA jet (usually a F-5 IIRC) up to Montreal and then back to Houston. I wonder what the "cost per hour" for one of those is when calculated on the same basis as that used to account for the challengers "hourly cost". I am pretty sure that it's cheaper to fly economy to Montreal and back though.http://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/sm_threat.gif

 

[Good2Golf]

OGBD, it was a NASA T-38 (trainer variant of the F-5 fighter).  Technically, The Honourable Marc Garneau, politician, was a back seater, never qualified on jets unlike Chris Hadfield, a CF-18 pilot, and Julie Payette who took a tailored course in Moose Jaw on the CT-114 Tutor.  Theoretically, the baggage back-seater status would make for an even stronger argument to travel via commercial air travel up to St-Hubert to visit CSA.

Regards
G2G

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Thank you for enlightening me on the difference between F-5's and T-38's.

Unlike others that shall remain nameless (wink-wink), I never claimed that MY 24 years of service in the Navy left me anything other than completely (some would say blissfully ) ignorant of what my Air Force brethren were ever up to.

 

[Good2Golf]

OGBD, that wasn't meant as a correction, but rather adding additional detail (and the pretty picture).  You're ahead ahead of me and my pointy-end/flat-end of a boat ship.  ;D

Cheers
G2G

p.s.  Actually, if there's a hint of aerospace stuff on it, I'm all over it...I could probably talk about FT4's and LM2500's all day long. 

 

[Journeyman]

Actually, if there's a hint of aerospace stuff on it, I'm all over it...I could probably talk about FT4's and LM2500's all day long.

Just not with us  :boring:

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Not to mention that, during any "long recovery period in a US hospital", he's away from family and friends and surrounded by strangers.

And the Challenger crew gets boxes checked off on their currency board, and the beneficial experience of instrument flight and approaches in foreign airspace, while helping somebody out rather than doing the same thing empty.

An empty seat is a wasted seat. Instrument training trips - required to maintain currency - in Tac Hel (for example) involve flying to different airports in order to do instrument approaches at them, as every one is different and doing the same one available at one's home base over and over again has no training value. One can pick airports at random and fly around empty, or one can fly to a place where somebody needs to go. The crew gets their IF time and approaches in, and somebody gets a free ride instead of billing the taxpayer for a commercial flight, car rental, or whatever other means would be deemed appropriate.

Everybody wins.

Everyone except Robert Fife

 

[Good2Golf]

Hmnmm...I wonder if someone could ATI what Robert Fife has ATI'd, thus knowing what stories CTV will be streaming out about CF aircraft for the next 8-10 months? 

 

[Old Sweat]

His name appears on the story, but he is the CTV Ottawa Bureau Chief. I wonder if news is actually that slow in Ottawa that he has time for this sort of thing, or . . .? It maybe that somebody routinely shotguns ATIs or it may even be done by a freelance.

Just thinking. rly:

 

[mariomike]

Regarding insurance:
"There’s a big difference between medical evacuation and repatriation. Know what it is and make sure your policy spells it out."

By the way, I am way over 65 so most travel insurance plans are so "covered" with fine print exceptions as to be nearly useless.

We have Manulife Emergency Travel Assistance as a group benefit for employees, and lifetime for pensioners. You never have to take a medical, and it is not affected by retirement or age:
http://groupbenefits.manulife.com/canada/GB_v2.nsf/Public/pm_travel

It includes Health Advice and Assistance:
http://groupbenefits.manulife.com/canada/GB_v2.nsf/Public/pm_healthadvice



Patients repatriated over 200 miles now usually go by air.

Air Canada:
"Stretcher service:"
In view of the limited demand for stretcher services, Air Canada no longer accepts stretcher bookings. Requests for this special service will be referred to government approved air ambulance operators.":
http://www.aircanada.jp/en/special-services.htm?cLoc=tn#stretcher
The no stretcher policy came into effect in 2005. Stretcher patients were cited as causing disruptions to flight schedules and delayed departures. 
This loss of stretcher capacity on commercial airliners has bumped up the costs of repatriating patients.

Commercial airlines do not wish to risk any sort of in-air medical emergency. Stretcher patients who go commercial must be able to tolerate sitting upright. They have virtually no privacy ( bed pans ). They have to be log rolled between the stationary airline stretcher in the back of the aircraft, and the ambulance stretcher outside the front door. 
The stretcher patient flying commercial is the first passenger on, and the last passenger off. There is no built in oxygen or suction.

Even a short ambulance ride in the U.S. is not cheap:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/67371/post-939336.html?PHPSESSID=4u2gu9rkj99trcr7gt4o1fgcr1#msg939336
Land and air ambulance services originating out of Ontario are not an insured benefit under OHIP.

 

[cupper]

I then talked to our local (Texas) hospital who told me what an ICU bed costs an uninsured foreigner.

Air Canada is cheaper.

I can definitely vouch for that. My wife had her gall bladder removed last year, and the total bill for the operation was in excess of $10,000 for an outpatient surgical procedure. Fortunately we have health insurance through my employer and our final out of pocket was a little over $100.00.

So from an economical standpoint, it was a no brainer move.

Too bad Fife is a no brainer, who should have done a comparison of the numbers before wasting time, ink and paper.

 

[OldSolduer]

Too bad Fife is a no brainer, who should have done a comparison of the numbers before wasting time, ink and paper.

Why would you want to do that? That won't sell advertising, nor will it make Harper and his government look bad....

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Also, for those who travel to the states who have no coverage, get the insurance.  You may not need it but it'll save you headaches,time, and money if you do need it.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Also, for those who travel to the states who have no coverage, get the insurance.  You may not need it but it'll save you headaches,time, and money if you do need it.

I agree, but be careful if you are over 65 ~ even if you have had the same insurance coverage for years; and make sure you understand what is and is not covered, read and understand the fine print.

 

[ModlrMike]

Is it any coincidence that there's no comments on the story?

 

[medicineman]

I think not...

MM

 

[The Bread Guy]

Is it any coincidence that there's no comments on the story?

I think not...

MM

Just because you can't comment on the story doesn't mean you can't let the CTV folks know more information to give more context:

A reminder:  in order to facilitate dialogue between those who research and write the stories and those who read them, there's a "Feedback" button at the bottom of the story in question - click here to provide said feedback on this particular story.  I'm hoping new information from people who know what they're talking about can help provide more context and a better story.

Hmnmm...I wonder if someone could ATI what Robert Fife has ATI'd, thus knowing what stories CTV will be streaming out about CF aircraft for the next 8-10 months? 

Now that they've been released, anyone can ask for copies - here's some recently closed files (for this calendar year) from DND's "Completed Access to Information Requests" page:

A-2011-00413  Canada's VIP air transport requirements, list of what aircraft have been in use, the total amount of hours, distance the fleet has spent in air (per aircraft), and complete list of all locations & passenger for the period 1 Jan 06 - 30 Jun 11 815 pages Disclosed in part

A-2011-00355  The cost for the use of the government aircraft (Challenger) and name and title of all government employees who accompanied the Prime Minister to Boston on 8 June 2011

A-2011-00285  Costs and expenditures associated with the use of Challengers by the Prime Minister, the Governor General of Canada and individual Conservative ministers or VIP members between 1 January 2006 and 31 March 2011

A-2010-01170  Logs for Challenger jets for Jan. 1 2009 to 21 Dec 2010

A-2010-01114  Passenger manifests for Challenger flights for the period 1 - 31 Dec 2010

Happy hunting!

 

[The Bread Guy]

From our  :deadhorse: file - a bit more political back & forth yesterday in the House of Commons, bringing together the SAR chopper & Challenger memes (transcript attached).

The scab continues to be picked at....

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from CTV.ca's Robert Fife's Twitter feed:

• Gen Walt Natynczyk sends memo to troops defending his and Peter MacKay's high-flying travel on V-I-P Challenger jets.
• Gen Natynczyk says when CF fly Peter MacKay: "it is not only because his duties require it, but also becaus… (cont) http://t.co/1CjEedfA