Challenger/"VIP" Jet/CF Chopper Use (CDS, others) [merged]

[Angry56789]

I am sitting on the fence on this one.....yes he was carrying out duties mandated by the CF and of course extra precaution needs to be taken for his personal security in public places. (Imagine the propaganda victory if some dirtbag Al Qaeda follower bagged a general)

I think it should have been at least considered looking into cost effectiveness. Eg. convoy versus airplane depending on where he is in the country and what event he is being brought to.

Am I to assume that "paid duty" police officers were use to suppliment (I honestly do not know this) the current security plan?  That would be a waste of money in my eyes when I am sure there are plenty of MPs, JTF2 and so on that wouldn't mind donning civvies and cool concealable toys for the evening to go to a hockey game.

In terms of the family vacation to the Caribbean, I would love to talk about that but I am sure I will get accused at least once of being a self dignified Corporal with an assumed sense of entitlement. Family is very important yes....but why should a government asset be used to take him there? Pers. for his personal protection are 100% understandable....but he makes enough money to buy his own plane ticket....and if he were to claim LTA to get to his family I would say that would also be 100% justifiable as well.

Substantiated using S. 2(b), C.C.R.F.​

 

[Good2Golf]

Yes (well, sort of).  The Boeing's engines were designated JT-3Ds, and were a turbofan (some air bypasses the combustion chamber).  Pure military aircraft like the KC-135s and B-52s were equipped with the TF-33 (turbofan), a military equivalent to the JT-3D. 

The J57 of our Voodoos were straight turbojets...all air through the combustion chamber.  The civilian variant of the J57 was the JT-3C (an earlier version of the JT-3D, without the turbofan bypass). 

J57/JT-3C  >  TF33/JT-3D

Even though JT-3D was a turbofan (a bit quieter than the straight turbojet), it wasn't like today's big, high-bypass turbofans.  The CC137 failed to meet restrictive FAA "Stage III" noise limits, and were fined regularly whenever they landed in a noise-restricted airport (pretty much anywhere in the U.S.).

Regards
G2G

 

[Brad Sallows]

>The thing has become the famous self licking ice cream cone:

Given the behaviour of some of the media and the government's detractors, I was thinking it's more along the lines of a self-licking anus.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The PM continues to defend his man (the Minister, anyway) - highlights mine....

.... Mr. Harper, however, said all Mr. MacKay’s flights were legitimate. “When he has used them, they’ve been for important government business,” the Prime Minister told the Commons.  He invoked fallen soldiers in defending his minister, saying half of Mr. MacKay’s flights were to attend repatriation ceremonies where the remains of dead troopers were returned to Canada.  “Half of those flights are for repatriation ceremonies so that he can meet the families of those who have lost their loved ones in the service of this country. He goes there to show that we understand their sacrifice, we share their pain and we care about them,” the Prime Minister said ....

Globe & Mail, 29 Sept 11

And I guess the CDS was doing something entirely different before he got his plane ride to rejoin his family? 

 

[OldSolduer]

The PM continues to defend his man (the Minister, anyway) - highlights mine....Globe & Mail, 29 Sept 11

And I guess the CDS was doing something entirely different before he got his plane ride to rejoin his family?

I'm getting a bit tired of the Opposition harping on this. Its garbage.

Say,,,where is the Bob Dechert guy? Hanging out with his Chinese "journalist" mistress? Just saying....that disappeared very quickly.....

 

[Edward Campbell]

I'm getting a bit tired of the Opposition harping on this. Its garbage.

Say,,,where is the Bob Dechert guy? Hanging out with his Chinese "journalist" mistress? Just saying....that disappeared very quickly.....

She's gone home, having done good work here. 

 

[OldSolduer]

She's gone home, having done good work here. 

Yes I think she may have accomplished her.....mission.

CBC Newsworld had Linden MacIntyre on this morning. The subject? The state of SAR in Canada...particularly in Nfld/Lab area.

It seems that now the Afghan combat mission has ended, the knives are being sharpened....and MND and the CDS are the targets. My two cents, with HST added.  :2c:

 

[Old Sweat]

A bit of speculation here by the Star. The headline doesn't necessarily fit the story, which takes a shotgun approach to the issue of someone being out to get the MND. The story is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provision of the Copyright Act.

The military turns its guns on the minister

By Tim HarperNational Affairs Columnist

OTTAWA

Someone is out to get Peter MacKay.

The steady drip, drip of leaks and allegations about his high-flying use of government aircraft and search-and-rescue helicopters while on vacation can bring one to no other conclusion.

The who and why are tougher to divine.

Over the years, the defence minister has collected an impressive list of political rivals and detractors who would be easy suspects in this latest assault.

But all roads appear to head back to the bloated bureaucracy of the Department of National Defence, where factions are protecting turf, bracing for future cuts and fighting over the future of the force.

The report that threatened the status quo at a string of DND civilian posts, home to more than 12,000 personnel, was written by Andrew Leslie.

Leslie, the former head of the army, was once tabbed for the post of chief of defence staff, but was instead passed over and chained to a desk to look at the future of the military.

The result of his work was bold.

It called for unprecedented cuts to the civilian workforce — and could be shelved if one reads the signals from the chief of defence staff, Walter Natynczyk, and MacKay.

Leslie has gone, but someone has trained his or her guns on the CDS and the minister.

The first leak of allegedly improper Challenger jet use targeted Natynczyk, who responded that after taking fire in Sarajevo and Baghdad he could weather the political storm.

He did survive, but then the fire started raining down on MacKay.

MacKay has been strafed before.

Last November, it seemed everyone knew he was about to leave cabinet for a Bay Street job — it was only matter of when.

But he didn’t go.

At about the same time, there was every indication that he had become a lame duck minister, out of the loop on the transition of Canadian forces from combat to training.

Yet, there was MacKay back in cabinet, at the same post, following the May election.

Even before Conservatives formed a government, MacKay, as former Progressive Conservative leader, was accused of undermining Harper, but the reprisals that were always threatened never came.

To be sure, MacKay’s relationship with Harper and the PMO is hardly warm and cuddly.

Harper’s rigid body language as he watched MacKay explain his search-and-rescue problem a week ago was the subject of much comment.

But Thursday, it was Harper up aggressively defending his minister, claiming that 50 per cent of the Challenger flights were for the repatriation of soldiers killed in Afghanistan.

MacKay and Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird are known to be on the outs, dating back to MacKay’s losing battle to allow Air Emirates additional commercial landing rights to save the Canadian base at Camp Mirage in the U.A.E.

And every time there is some skullduggery in government ranks, Jason Kenney’s name pops up, though there is no proof the ambitious immigration minister has his fingerprints anywhere near this latest anti-MacKay flare up.

It is hard to imagine the attempt to discredit MacKay comes from political rivals at this time. The Conservative leadership jockeying is being done in the shadows and there is no reason to bring it into the open now.

There are MacKay backers who say Leslie and his loyalists are too easy scapegoated and the minister himself is asking questions before the next salvo.

But one only need to look at the apocalyptic language used in the debate over the Leslie report for clues.

Leslie warned the Harper government that if his deep cuts are not implemented, it will eventually lead to “mission failure” of the Canadian Forces.

Retired Gen. Rick Hillier has said if Leslie’s recommendations were to be implemented “you destroy the Canadian military.’’

The stakes are high and the minister is in the gun sights.

 

[ModlrMike]

I have to express my doubt that this is coming from inside the Department or Government. These attacks have all of the hallmarks of the opposition and media working together to embarrass the Torries through whatever contrived means possible. Just like the collusion between the CBC and Liberals during the previous two sessions of parliament.

 

[The Bread Guy]

"The military turns its guns on the minister"

Interesting headline, given the latter 1/2 of the column looks at political enemies.  How long will it take some of the worst "usual suspects" to use the word "coup" in relation to the headline?  :

 

[GAP]

There's enough innuendo there to choke a horse.... :

 

[Good2Golf]

...it's Belinda Stronach.  She'll still mad at her ex-boyfriend...

Tim Harper's piece in the Star is pure tripe! 

A Minister who has the cajones to come out and play rugby with the lads is NOT being gunned by the troops.  If anything, MacKay has been one of the most supportive Ministers DND has had in a very, very long time.

Tim Harper should clarify in his writing exactly what he means by "military", because the Military is the Canadian Forces.  The Military is not DND, which itself is a Federal Department.  CF military personnel work within DND, along with their civilian defence employees, political staff and contractor colleagues.


Regards
G2G

 

[McG]

The military turns its guns on the minister

By Tim HarperNational Affairs Columnist

OTTAWA

Someone is out to get Peter MacKay.

The steady drip, drip of leaks and allegations about his high-flying use of government aircraft and search-and-rescue helicopters while on vacation can bring one to no other conclusion.

...

The steady drip, drip of leaks?  If I've been paying attention correctly, all the articles first reporting items of information on this theme state that the information came from Acess to Information.

 

[OldSolduer]

The steady drip, drip of leaks?  If I've been paying attention correctly, all the articles first reporting items of information on this theme state that the information came from Acess to Information.

True,.,,,,,BUT could someone have given the old "nudge nudge wink wink" to a muckraker journalist saying...."if you look here....you might find....".

Just sayin..... :2c:

Added: I am going the Bomber game tonight....but we are NOT taking the Challenger.....

 

[GAP]

Added: I am going the Bomber game tonight....but we are NOT taking the Challenger.....

Chicken!!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

" Here, wait a minute, let me throw this turd against the wall and see if it sticks"

I guess all those muckraking, pseudo copyboys from the defunct News of the World have found a new home in the shadowy, make believe world of the Canadian MSM.

Clowns.

 

[Journeyman]

... but the reprisals that were always threatened never came.

Why do you think that is? I'd guess it's because McKay is competent, popular, and retains Harper's trust and support....regardless of a shoddy tabloid's lame opinion piece, attempting to masquerade as "journalism."

Amazingly, this one actually failed to reach the Star's abysmally low standard of quality.

 

[Monsoon]

Amazingly, this one actually failed to reach the Star's abysmally low standard of quality.

This story that DND/the CF is behind the attacks on the MND is one I've seen floating around over the past 24 hours amongst journalists on Twitter. If you follow the trail in reverse, everyone seems to eventually be relying on something Robert Fife of CTV suggested somewhere - this is the same "journalist" that trumped up the original Challenger story on the CDS and reported the stories playing out against the Minister. Now he's just trying to play out the story by inventing another angle. It's really quite disgusting.

 

[OldSolduer]

This story that DND/the CF is behind the attacks on the MND is one I've seen floating around over the past 24 hours amongst journalists on Twitter. If you follow the trail in reverse, everyone seems to eventually be relying on something Robert Fife of CTV suggested somewhere - this is the same "journalist" that trumped up the original Challenger story on the CDS and reported the stories playing out against the Minister.

So did he think this up all by himself.....or did he have help? "nudge nudge wink wink"

 

[Container]

They've even started going after the RCMP Commissioner for his flying habits. It is the absolute worst journalism- the hunting equivalent of walking through the woods shooting a shot gun hoping you hit something good.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1061582

Like a trip to Shamattawa is some kind of perk.