CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[Remius]

The same demonstrated success as Hydroxychloroquine, Vitamin D, Remdesivir, and Lopinavir?

I would say unknown until more clinical trials are done.

 

[Altair]

I would say unknown until more clinical trials are done.

Clinical trials would be great.

Data on effectiveness would be great.

Additional data on breakdown per age group would be even better.

Widespread adoption by a nation and subsequent data on how it improves the outcomes of individuals would be perfect.

Instead we get youtube videos.

FORGIVE me if I am skeptical, especially as we have seen this same miracle drug script before.

Hydroxychloroquine, Vitamin D, Remdesivir, and Lopinavir all followed the same script, some person on YouTube saying it is the perfect treatment for covid 19, thus we don't need vaccines. This leads to more vaccine hesitancy as people think if they catch covid they will just use one of those drugs and get cured. Follow up trials show that these drugs and vitamins have very little positive outcomes those who get covid, and then all those who pushed it are suddenly silent,and off to the next miracle drug that cures covid.

Meanwhile the vaccines are actually proven to help are met with skepticism.

How many must die because of miracle drugs like Hydroxychloroquine, Vitamin D, Remdesivir, Lopinavir and now Ivermectin?

Why are there 195 countries on the planet and no more than a handful are using these drugs, and none have beaten covid?

 

[PMedMoe]

Why are there 195 countries on the planet and no more than a handful are using these drugs, and none have beaten covid?

Because none of the drugs prevent COVID. They are only potentially useful for treatment.

 

[QV]

Clinical trials would be great.

Data on effectiveness would be great.

Additional data on breakdown per age group would be even better.

Widespread adoption by a nation and subsequent data on how it improves the outcomes of individuals would be perfect.

Instead we get youtube videos.

FORGIVE me if I am skeptical, especially as we have seen this same miracle drug script before.

Hydroxychloroquine, Vitamin D, Remdesivir, and Lopinavir all followed the same script, some person on YouTube saying it is the perfect treatment for covid 19, thus we don't need vaccines. This leads to more vaccine hesitancy as people think if they catch covid they will just use one of those drugs and get cured. Follow up trials show that these drugs and vitamins have very little positive outcomes those who get covid, and then all those who pushed it are suddenly silent,and off to the next miracle drug that cures covid.

Meanwhile the vaccines are actually proven to help are met with skepticism.

How many must die because of miracle drugs like Hydroxychloroquine, Vitamin D, Remdesivir, Lopinavir and now Ivermectin?

Why are there 195 countries on the planet and no more than a handful are using these drugs, and none have beaten covid?

No body is going to read the data for you. If you want to continue to ignore it and suggest all there is are YouTube videos all you do is lose credibility in your argument. A vaccine isn't the only way forward, but it's the only one pushed with never before seen zeal. Vitamin D is an essential nutrient and those very low on it are far more susceptible to bad outcomes, particularly bad COVID outcomes.

 

[QV]

Because none of the drugs prevent COVID. They are only potentially useful for treatment.

And none of the vaccines prevent COVID either, according to the CDC et al. So WTF...

 

[mariomike]

Instead we get youtube videos.

Gotta go with Pastor Jim Bakker and Silver Solution - for entertainment only!

I don't know how you guys define "snake oil salesman"? Would Silver Solution qualify? Pour it on your corn flakes, in your soup, or chug it straight from the bottle.

 

[Altair]

Because none of the drugs prevent COVID. They are only potentially useful for treatment.

If they got covid to the point where its treatable and doesn't have the death and hospital rates associated with it, then they have beaten covid.

Nobody has done that with these drugs.

 

[Altair]

No body is going to read the data for you. If you want to continue to ignore it and suggest all there is are YouTube videos all you do is lose credibility in your argument. A vaccine isn't the only way forward, but it's the only one pushed with never before seen zeal. Vitamin D is an essential nutrient and those very low on it are far more susceptible to bad outcomes, particularly bad COVID outcomes.

Vitamin D deficiency can be associated with worse outcomes, but having high Vitamin D isn't a cure. Many countries that have very high levels of natural Vitamin D got crushed by covid.

So Vitamin D as a cure doesn't work.

As for the data, there are no widespread clinical trials, no country using it wholesale and thus having a population level sample size to draw from.

There is not enough data.

Same as, and I know I'm a broken record here, Hydroxychloroquine, Vitamin D, Remdesivir, Lopinavir. All were supposed to cure covid cases. All failed. So now I'm supposed to believe Ivermectin is the cure all, when all the previous cure all drugs and vitamins failed?

No.

Enough of this shit.

When a country adopts this drug, and has a proven track record in curing covid cases, give me a call. Till then, I'm tossing it on the pile of snake oil like, again, Hydroxychloroquine, Vitamin D, Remdesivir, and Lopinavir.

 

[Altair]

And none of the vaccines prevent COVID either, according to the CDC et al. So WTF...

Here's How Well COVID-19 Vaccines Work Against the Delta Variant

In the fight against the Delta variant, here's how the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccines measure up when it comes to protection. A new study found the Moderna vaccine was 76% effective against the Delta variant, while the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective...

www.healthline.com

In a press briefing, she said preliminary data suggested that 99.5 percent of the people who died from COVID-19 since January were unvaccinated.

 

[Altair]

Looks like with the wave of delta variants and vaccine hesitancy, big companies in the US are starting to enforce vaccinations.

Corporate America Rethinks Vaccine Mandates (Published 2021)

New outbreaks have companies weighing their options.

www.nytimes.com

I wonder is these policies will start to spread.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-covid-requirements-1.6121002

Not in Alberta.

 

[Altair]

Gotta go with Pastor Jim Bakker and Silver Solution - for entertainment only!

I don't know how you guys define "snake oil salesman"? Would Silver Solution qualify? Pour it on your corn flakes, in your soup, or chug it straight from the bottle.

Well, it's on YouTube, it must be legit.

How many people has youtube killed in the last year and a half...

 

[Altair]

Anyone know if this is true? If it is... interesting the MSM take on all of this...


“Association of American Physicians & Surgeons (AAPS) Sues the FDA to End Its Arbitrary Restrictions on Hydroxychloroquine”

Association of American Physicians & Surgeons (AAPS) Sues the FDA to End Its Arbitrary Restrictions on Hydroxychloroquine

/PRNewswire/ -- Today the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons (AAPS) filed a lawsuit, AAPS v. FDA, against the Food and Drug Administration to end...

www.prnewswire.com

Study shows hydroxychloroquine treatments increased coronavirus survival rate by almost three times - Washington Examiner

A new study shows that the controversial drug hydroxychloroquine touted by former President Donald Trump increased the survival rate of severely ill coronavirus patients.The observational study, published by medRxiv, found that antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine, along with azithromycin, could...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Is this true or fake news? If true, what does this mean for the agencies that shut it down in the beginning?

Observational Study on 255 Mechanically Ventilated Covid Patients at the Beginning of the USA Pandemic

Introduction This observational study looked at 255 COVID19 patients who required invasive mechanical ventilation (IMV) during the first two months of the US pandemic. Through comprehensive, longitudinal evaluation and new consideration of all the data, we were able to better describe and...

www.medrxiv.org

The observations study shows significant promise. And one of the authors is engaged in comments at the bottom, very interesting.

Oh and PMedMoe don't worry Trump wasn't a part of it, only infectious disease experts.

I mean, its not like you haven't pushed other miracle cures before. What about those ones?

Forgot about them?

 

[QV]

There is plenty of data at the links I've provided. Your shotgun replies are indicative of you not even looking at, understanding or considering anything. For you its vaccine only and no other intervention is worth considering until big media tells you.

The whole point of therapeutics is to have better outcomes, not be a cure. The vaccines are not even a cure. Imagine if there were more readily available, cheap, and safe therapeutics that did the same thing. But billion$ has nothing to do with it hey LOL

Here is another subject matter expert position on this:

Delta Variant: Natural Immunity 700% Greater Protection Than Shot, Data from Israeli Govt. Shows - NewsRescue.com

Update (Aug 27, 2021) After being fact-checked by FaceBook's “Health feedback”, Bloomberg and other mainstream media are reporting on this same finding today. Related: NewsRescue–#LongHaulers: Spike Protein Present on Covid And in Vaccines Dangerously Modifies Genes Even After Exposure – Texas...

newsrescue.com

McCullough is of the top five most published medical researchers in the U.S., and his paper in the American Journal of Medicine in August 2020 about treatment protocol for COVID remains the most downloaded and used paper during the pandemic from that journal.

The media has focused incessantly on antibody levels and the observation that they often drop months after the infection; however, as with other viruses, that does not indicate waning immunity. “Yes, our antibody levels drop over time, however, scientifically, the memory B cells that make antibodies have been proven to be present in our lymph nodes and bone marrow,” explained Dr. Cole. “They are primed and ready to produce a broad array of antibodies upon viral pre-exposure. It would be physiologically, energetically impossible to maintain high antibody levels to all the pathogens we are constantly exposed to, and we would look like the ‘swollen Stay-Puft marshmallow man’ of lymph nodes, constantly, if the immune system were required to do that.”

Already in April, researchers from Tel Aviv University concluded that their research “puts into question the need to vaccinate recent previously-infected individuals.” Unfortunately, it appears that the Israeli government did not listen.

Thus, dealing with variants like “Delta” by focusing solely on risk-fraught injections with questionable effectiveness is the most counterproductive strategy ever. The U.K.’s very thorough data updated last week shows just a 0.2% case fatality rate for Delta, and only 0.03% for those under the age of 50, lower than any other variant. If it’s more transmissible, it’s less deadly. Natural infection is the only phenomena that will ultimately burn out all variants, and the entire focus should be on getting seniors and other vulnerable people early treatment the minute they feel symptoms and even a prophylactic regimen of ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine when appropriate.

Just imagine if all of the trillions spent on lockdowns and vaccines had been used for cheap anti-viral and anti-inflammatory treatments to be used outside the hospitals. It’s the only thing that hasn’t been tried, because there is nothing to be gained but saving lives.

 

[PMedMoe]

And none of the vaccines prevent COVID either, according to the CDC et al. So WTF...

I never said they did, however they can prevent serious illness, hospitalization and long term effects of COVID. Unlike your supposed miracle cure.

 

[Altair]

There is plenty of data at the links I've provided. Your shotgun replies are indicative of you not even looking at, understanding or considering anything. For you its vaccine only and no other intervention is worth considering until big media tells you.

Once there is proof, I will consider it. There is no proof.

The whole point of therapeutics is to have better outcomes, not be a cure. The vaccines are not even a cure. Imagine if there were more readily available, cheap, and safe therapeutics that did the same thing. But billion$ has nothing to do with it hey LOL

The vaccines will lead to drastically less death and drastically less hospitalization, which if not a cure is probably the next best thing. No therapeutic has come close to a 90 percent reduction in death and hospitalization, which is why nobody is focusing on them.

Here is another subject matter expert position on this:

Delta Variant: Natural Immunity 700% Greater Protection Than Shot, Data from Israeli Govt. Shows - NewsRescue.com

Update (Aug 27, 2021) After being fact-checked by FaceBook's “Health feedback”, Bloomberg and other mainstream media are reporting on this same finding today. Related: NewsRescue–#LongHaulers: Spike Protein Present on Covid And in Vaccines Dangerously Modifies Genes Even After Exposure – Texas...

newsrescue.com

McCullough is of the top five most published medical researchers in the U.S., and his paper in the American Journal of Medicine in August 2020 about treatment protocol for COVID remains the most downloaded and used paper during the pandemic from that journal.

The media has focused incessantly on antibody levels and the observation that they often drop months after the infection; however, as with other viruses, that does not indicate waning immunity. “Yes, our antibody levels drop over time, however, scientifically, the memory B cells that make antibodies have been proven to be present in our lymph nodes and bone marrow,” explained Dr. Cole. “They are primed and ready to produce a broad array of antibodies upon viral pre-exposure. It would be physiologically, energetically impossible to maintain high antibody levels to all the pathogens we are constantly exposed to, and we would look like the ‘swollen Stay-Puft marshmallow man’ of lymph nodes, constantly, if the immune system were required to do that.”

Already in April, researchers from Tel Aviv University concluded that their research “puts into question the need to vaccinate recent previously-infected individuals.” Unfortunately, it appears that the Israeli government did not listen.

Immunity for alpha variant does not provide immunity for delta,which is a problem. The more variants arise, the less protected people are.

Thus, dealing with variants like “Delta” by focusing solely on risk-fraught injections with questionable effectiveness is the most counterproductive strategy ever. The U.K.’s very thorough data updated last week shows just a 0.2% case fatality rate for Delta, and only 0.03% for those under the age of 50, lower than any other variant. If it’s more transmissible, it’s less deadly. Natural infection is the only phenomena that will ultimately burn out all variants, and the entire focus should be on getting seniors and other vulnerable people early treatment the minute they feel symptoms and even a prophylactic regimen of ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine when appropriate.

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant, and Will It Cause a COVID Surge in the U.S.?

A new, more transmissible form of SARS-CoV-2 is rapidly spreading in the country and poses a threat to unvaccinated and partially vaccinated people

www.scientificamerican.com

There is some indication that the Delta variant may also result in more severe disease. A study in Scotland, published in the Lancet, found the hospitalization rate of patients with that variant was about 85 percent higher than that of people with the Alpha variant. But because of the time lag between hospitalizations and deaths, there is not enough data to say whether or not Delta is more deadly than other variants.

You are gambling a lot on the lag time between hospitalization and death.

Just imagine if all of the trillions spent on lockdowns and vaccines had been used for cheap anti-viral and anti-inflammatory treatments to be used outside the hospitals. It’s the only thing that hasn’t been tried, because there is nothing to be gained but saving lives.

I can imagine a lot more deaths.

Why are you discounting the one thing that has had a verifiable, demonstrated, proven track record versus covid, vaccines, and pushing experimental things like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, one of which went nowhere, and the other of which is unproven?

 

[ModlrMike]

This entire conversation summed up in one picture:

 

[Altair]

This entire conversation summed up in one picture:

View attachment 65908

Normally, I wouldn't waste my time with someone who is clearly never going to change their mind, but at this point its a public service.

Just in case their are lurkers here reading what QV is posting, debunking it and challenging it may keep at least a few people from believing or falling for what he posts.

 

[QV]

Why are you discounting the one thing that has had a verifiable, demonstrated, proven track record versus covid, vaccines, and pushing experimental things like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, one of which went nowhere, and the other of which is unproven?

I'm not. I'm saying in addition there are therapeutics that are effective. You're the one pushing a single COA solution.

I note in other threads your complete opposition to giving children under 12 the jab... don't you think therapeutics could play a role there?

Altair: "Vitamin D and ivermectin are snake oil"

 

[Altair]

I'm not. I'm saying in addition there are therapeutics that are effective. You're the one pushing a single COA solution.

What? Why would there need to be additions? People who are vaccinated tend to not end up in hospital and not dying from covid, thus why would there be a need for therapeutics?

I note in other threads your complete opposition to giving children under 12 the jab... don't you think therapeutics could play a role there?

You said it yourself, these therapeutics do not prevent covid. They are to treat covid. So seeing as vaccines are the preventative, no I don't see any relation. This and the fact that kids have pretty good outcomes versus covid, and no, I do not see therapeutics playing a role here.

Even if I did, by the time any large scale clinical trial was completed, the vaccines would be approved for children, likely over the age of 5. Unless you think that Ivermectin could complete a large clinical trial and get approval before this fall, early winter?

Altair: "Vitamin D and ivermectin are snake oil"

Until clinical trials saying otherwise, ya.

Again, how is Hydroxychloroquine going?

 

[QV]

Normally, I wouldn't waste my time with someone who is clearly never going to change their mind, but at this point its a public service.

Just in case their are lurkers here reading what QV is posting, debunking it and challenging it may keep at least a few people from believing or falling for what he posts.

You sure make a lot of irrational assumptions and contradictions. You have yet to debunk anything the FLCCC has up on their website here:
Home | FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance.

I'm just pointing out it exists, and that is quite triggering for you. But this has run it's course so I'm out, enjoy.